The rider on the white horse

[AdB]

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

 

[AdB]

Sorry, but your whole elaboration hinges on the color "white" representing "righteousness", but John 6:63 doesn't indicate that, so what Biblical passage do you found that statement on?

Also, even when taking whitenas the colour of righteousness, with for example the bekievers also dressed in white because they have been MADE righteous, then still the first rider doesn't necessarily has to be Christ because the believers are also in white, then an angelic being might also be dressed in white.

And to take it even further, Satan is also called deceitfully "an angel of light" (Lucifer) so the white of the first rider may simply be the deception that this first rider uses to "overcome and conquer" the believers because he is actually representing false messiases

 

[RandyPNW]

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

The fact they are both white horses would argue that they are similar, but not the same. I agree with you that they are different.

In many of the visions angels are used to convey the events in very symbolic manner. The white horse of the 4 horsemen appear to be related to angelic activity--not Christ. They involve the 4 living creatures, which appear to be angels displaying various aspects of creation--notably divine judgment. They are predatious, strong, intelligent, and from heaven.

In NT history, divine judgment has already begun in the eternal sense, since the eternal means of escape from judgment has already begun with the Cross. Those who reject that Cross set themselves up for divine judgment both in this life and in the eternal stretch of time.

The 4 horsemen represent the NT era in which this judgment has begun, which will end at Armageddon. And angels are carrying out these historical and final judgments.

The white horse presents the purity of Christian judgment, which separates the wicked out from the righteous for this judgment. In the same way Christ on his white horse displays the purity of God's final judgment.

 

[AdB]

The fact they are both white horses would argue that they are similar, but not the same. I agree with you that they are different.

In many of the visions angels are used to convey the events in very symbolic manner. The white horse of the 4 horsemen appear to be related to angelic activity--not Christ. They involve the 4 living creatures, which appear to be angels displaying various aspects of creation--notably divine judgment. They are predatious, strong, intelligent, and from heaven.

In NT history, divine judgment has already begun in the eternal sense, since the eternal means of escape from judgment has already begun with the Cross. Those who reject that Cross set themselves up for divine judgment both in this life and in the eternal stretch of time.

The 4 horsemen represent the NT era in which this judgment has begun, which will end at Armageddon. And angels are carrying out these historical and final judgments.

The white horse presents the purity of Christian judgment, which separates the wicked out from the righteous for this judgment. In the same way Christ on his white horse displays the purity of God's final judgment.

I tend to think all 4 horsemen represent evil principalities. Firstly because they are all described equally, as if to say "these are of the same kind". This is supported by the remarkable resemblance to the first partbof the Olivet Discourse that als speaks of wars, famines and death, where this first horseman then would coincide with the warning about false christs that will come.
That would mean the whiteness of this horse is actually because these false christs are deceitfully presenting themselfs as righteous

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

I would argue that both are Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Both are on a White horse, both are wearing a crown(s), both are carrying a weapon and both conquer. Revelation 19 is not introducing a new concept, it is merely expanding His purpose in detail but now with an army. The Body of Christ. In other words the first is Himself the second is with the Body of believers that create the army. " Put on the full armor of God".
My thoughts...anyway.

Be blessed.

 

[AdB]

Do a word search on the spirit word "white". Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it can be discerned that white represents righteousness

I asked for a Biblical foundation because only that is what I will accept, as you rightly quote 1 Cor 4:6 "not to go beyond what is written"

the opening of the seals are reoccurring spiritual events that happen in the lives of each Elect person as they travel to their moment of conversion

What do you base this premise on? Again, Biblical passages for argument...

 

[AdB]

I would argue that both are Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Both are on a White horse, both are wearing a crown(s), both are carrying a weapon and both conquer. Revelation 19 is not introducing a new concept, it is merely expanding His purpose in detail but now with an army. The Body of Christ. In other words the first is Himself the second is with the Body of believers that create the army. " Put on the full armor of God".
My thoughts...anyway.

Be blessed.

That would be a stretch to see the first seal as Christ's Second Coming...

Also, in Rev 19 the rider is clearly described as an individual and moreover in verse 14 it's clearly stated that the heavenly army follow Him as a separate entity...

 

[Douggg]

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 will be a false messianic figure, the Antichrist.

 

[AdB]

The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 will be a false messianic figure, the Antichrist.

Or a representation of any false messiah?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That would be a stretch to see the first seal as Christ's Second Coming...

Also, in Rev 19 the rider is clearly described as an individual and moreover in verse 14 it's clearly stated that the heavenly army follow Him as a separate entity...

Understood. Its all about the lens we see through.
Thanks for engaging !

 

[Douggg]

Or a representation of any false messiah?

The Revelation 6:2 rider on the white horse will specifically be the Antichrist.

 

[AdB]

Two takeaways I get from your elaborations...
1. The multi-step process to real salvation sound quite like mysticism to me
2. The Bible is clear that there will be multitudes that will NOT be reconciled with God contrary to what you seem to state

But I'd like to stop this specific discussion here because this thread is about a totally different subject...

 

[3 Resurrections]

This white horse rider in Revelation 6:2 "went forth conquering and to conquer". This is reminiscent of the verse which tells us "We are more than conquerors through Him that loved us..." (Romans 8:37).

Didn't the ascending Christ tell His disciples in Matthew 28:18-19 just before He left, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." The "conquering" that Christ the white horse rider in Rev. 6:2 was pictured as doing was the evangelistic work being done with Christ's power starting with the early church in Jerusalem, and spreading out from there to the nations.

The single crown given to this Rev. 6:2 white horse rider was the crown of His high priesthood. This high priest crown was given to Christ by the Ancient of Days on the morning of His resurrection-day ascension to heaven. The Son of Man was brought near before the Ancient of Days, and was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom.

The "many crowns" given to the white horse rider Christ in Revelation 19:12 were going to be confiscated later from a defeated Satan who had once boasted to Christ in the wilderness temptation about his having the power and glory of all the kingdoms of this world (Luke 4:5-6).

 

[JulieB67]

The first seal is meant to show us the fake Christ arrives first on the scene. Yes, he is similar. But that's the point. He will mimic the Messiah. But we are shown the differences. If people are not careful they could fall away to the fake believing he is the true Christ. Especially those waiting on Christ to arrive first. (foolish Virgins, etc..)

 

[AdB]

This white horse rider in Revelation 6:2 "went forth conquering and to conquer". This is reminiscent of the verse which tells us "We are more than conquerors through Him that loved us..." (Romans 8:37).

Didn't the ascending Christ tell His disciples in Matthew 28:18-19 just before He left, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." The "conquering" that Christ the white horse rider in Rev. 6:2 was pictured as doing was the evangelistic work being done with Christ's power starting with the early church in Jerusalem, and spreading out from there to the nations.

The single crown given to this Rev. 6:2 white horse rider was the crown of His high priesthood. This high priest crown was given to Christ by the Ancient of Days on the morning of His resurrection-day ascension to heaven. The Son of Man was brought near before the Ancient of Days, and was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom.

The "many crowns" given to the white horse rider Christ in Revelation 19:12 were going to be confiscated later from a defeated Satan who had once boasted to Christ in the wilderness temptation about his having the power and glory of all the kingdoms of this world (Luke 4:5-6).

This is a sound elaboration...
And looking at it in that way the bow may point to His conquest of the world is in an indirect manner through the believers, and also cgoing through the air" as indication of the work of the Holy Spirit...

Food for thought

 

[3 Resurrections]

And looking at it in that way the bow may point to His conquest of the world is in an indirect manner through the believers, and also cgoing through the air" as indication of the work of the Holy Spirit...

Yes, in truth I think this is how Christ the white horse rider went forth "conquering and to conquer". It also brings to mind the language in Psalms 45:1-7.

"My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty. And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

We know that this text is describing Christ the crowned King as the Son of God, because Hebrews 1:8-9 credits this language to Him specifically.

 

[DennisF]

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

Revelation is a single document; it does not start over at Rev. 19.

It is a logical flaw to suppose that Rev. 19 says everything that is to be said about the rider on the white horse. He also has many characteristics (names). This is a clue that the rider in Rev. 6 could be the same rider.

The word bow of the first seal is another translator guess. The word in Greek is not specific; it could be a cross, or something else signifying the spread of the gospel.

 

[Semper-Fi]

The book of Revelation has many symbols with many different
interpretations. However, we must remember that the Bible
interprets itself. Only Christ [His word]can unlock the seven seals.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all recorded the Gospel of Christ.
An important prophecy Christ delivered while He was on Earth
was the Olivet prophecy. Why is John the only one of the four
Gospel writers who did not record the Olivet prophecy?

1st seal - White Horse = False Prophets
Revelation 6:1-2, Matthew 24:3-5, Mark 13, Luke 21
Each Gospel giving a little bit more/different information.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed
that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in My name,
saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.

The first horseman overlooked is religious deception. This horseman
has wreaked havoc on mankind with religious wars throughout history.

2nd Seal - Red Horse = War
Revelation 6:3-4, Matthew 24:6-7,

3rd Seal - Black Horse = Famine
Revelation 6:5-6, Matthew 24:7

4th Seal - Pale Horse = Pestilence
Revelation 6:7-8, Matthew 24:7-8

The link between the second, third and fourth horsemen
representing war, famine and pestilence (Jeremiah 21:9;
27:13; 29:17-18; 32:24; 34:17; 38:2; 42:16-17; 44:13).

 

[Marilyn C]

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

Hi AdB,

I don`t believe the rider of the White horse represents Jesus for all the good reasons you have said.

I believe the 4 horsemen are the great powers of our day that the Father is bringing to His Son for Judgment.

`The LORD (Father) said to my Lord (Jesus), "St at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool." (Ps. 110: 1)

These 4 great powers are shown by the prophet Zechariah 6: 1 - 8, where the Father is sending out the 4 spirits of heaven with the 4 chariots, to bring them to judgment, (symbolized by the brass mountains). The first great power to be judged is from the north. This we know is the great Russian federation that the Prophet Ezekiel also was shown. (Ez. 38: 15).

The prophet Joel is also shown this great power from the north, (Joel 2: 20) and it will be the first one to be judged. (Zech. 6: 8)

So it is quite obvious who the great power of the north is - Russia. It is symbolized by the Red Horse, which went about killing and taking peace from the earth. We can see this today with NATO lining up with all its military near the Ukraine.

The great power that was formed before the Soviet Union, (and now Russia and others) is Great Britain. It went conquering and to conqueror nearly a quarter of the world. Thus, I believe Great Britain, now the British Commonwealth is symbolized by the White Horse. Its judgment is coming as with the rest of the great powers.

 

[Indentured Servant]

What would be the arguments for them still being the same

Joseph had two dreams, each with a unique metaphor... Yet, it was the same prophecy.

In Revelation 13, 22, etc, the same end times story is repeated with a variety of metaphors... all the same prophecy, yet completely different.

Genesis 37:5-10

1.
"Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him all the more.

He said to them, “Listen to this dream I had:
We were binding sheaves of grain out in the field when suddenly my sheaf rose and stood upright, while your sheaves gathered around mine and bowed down to it.”

His brothers said to him, “Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?” And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said."

2.
"Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”

When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?”


The seemingly different metaphors may not signify two different individuals, but may just be a different metaphor to say the same thing.