The Rapture theory is true?

[Jeff Saunders]

Bible Proof: The Rapture Theory is False.

John 17:15

There is a teaching today that is rife within the Christian world, called rapture. What is the rapture theory? It is to believed by those who hold to this theory (and there are MANY who do), that the "church" will be raptured away to heaven and then the earth will continue for a period of seven years (called the tribulation) in which the inhabitants of the earth will be plunged into a time of great trouble and strife (more so than now). So according to this teaching there is a separation to take place between the saved and the lost BEFORE the end of the world.

In this teaching we are also that Christ will return in two "phases". The first will be a "quiet" affair with the saints being raptured away. And then the second phase after the seven year tribulation will be the "glorious, triumphant" return, which according to this teaching, will usher in the 1000 year millennial reign on earth (which is also a false teaching).

Let me quickly show you an example of the weakness of the rapture doctrine - I came across a recent article stating '10 Irrefutable Proofs' for the rapture. Here are the first two 'irrefutable proofs' they quoted:

Number 1. "THE RAPTURE IS THE 'BLESSED HOPE' WHILE THE SECOND COMING IS A DAY TO BE GREATLY FEARED" ... They separate the rapture and second coming saying that the rapture is the 'blessed hope' quoting Titus 2:13, and the second coming is the 'FEARED day of the Lord', quoting Amos 5:18. They believe these must be different events, because one is to be hoped for, and the other is to be feared. But they fail to realize the simple truth that the second coming is the 'blessed hope' for the saved in Jesus, and to be 'greatly feared' by those who reject the Lord. Simple, logical truth.

Number 2. "IN THE RAPTURE, JESUS COMES FOR HIS CHURCH, AT HIS SECOND COMING HE BRINGS THE CHURCH WITH HIM" ... They say that Jesus takes His church away in the rapture, quoting 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. And then Jesus comes back with the church at the second coming, quoting Revelation 19:14, which says: 'the armies which were in heaven followed him upon White horses." But what they fail to realize is that the 'armies' whom Jesus returns with are His angels, as Matthew 25:31 confirms, not the church.

"But what about 1 Thessalonians 4:14, where it says that those who sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him? This surely is talking about the church coming back from heaven after the rapture with Jesus at His physical return?" - No it's not. Rapture adherents love this verse, but they completely miss the context of what is being said here. Look at both vs. 13 and 14. Paul is clearly talking about those who are asleep in Christ, those who are in their graves waiting for His return. And what does Paul say to give encouragement concerning those who have died? He says that just as God raised Jesus from the dead, so He will bring with Jesus those who sleep in Him. In other words, those who have died, God will raise them from the dead, just like He rose Jesus from the dead.

The rest of the so called 'Irrefutable proofs' are of the same mold. They are not proofs at all, but just twisting of scripture to suit their wrong belief. It's interesting that they also believe the 'antichrist' will not be revealed until AFTER the rapture. This is a deception of the Roman Church. The Bible and historic Protestantism already revealed the antichrist - The Papal Church of Rome!

NOTE: If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why was it not well known and popularized until the early 20th century?

BIBLE PROOF THE RAPTURE THEORY IS FALSE

John 17:15

Let me get one thing out of the way first. The word "rapture" is not found anywhere in the Bible. So where do they get the word from? It was coined from the words "caught up" found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. And I will deal with those verses later on.

What I would like to do is drop a Biblical bomb straight away on the pre-tribulation rapture teaching and expose it's weakness. That Bible bomb is found in Matthew, chapter 13. In this chapter, Christ Jesus is telling a parable and teaching a lesson concerning the events of the last days and the second coming. Let's look at what He says:
Matthew 13:24-30

WoW! I love the Word of God. It is so clear that we need not second guess what is going to happen. So what are we told in the pre-tribulation rapture theory? We are told that Christ will "gather" His people BEFORE the tribulation and separate the "wheat and the tares" BEFORE the harvest. And yet what does it clearly state in the Bible verse above? That the separation only takes place AT the harvest.

"Oh but the rapture IS the harvest!"

Ok. So according to those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory, the harvest takes place BEFORE the tribulation and BEFORE the end of the world. This is clearly what they believe because according to this teaching, the world continues for another 7 years and then another 1000 years AFTER the rapture. Well, what does Christ Jesus our TEACHER say about this?
Matthew 13:38-40

Thank you Jesus for giving us the clear truth on this matter, so that we should not be deceived! Do you see the truth on this friend? The church and the wicked continue to live together on earth until the END OF THE WORLD. And it is only at the end of the world that the separation takes place. The pre-trib rapture theory is now blown to bits by the Word of God!

Please understand that VITAL point. The rapture theory teaches a separation BEFORE the end. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is NO separation before the end.

This Also proves the mid-tribulation rapture teaching to be false

Those who hold to the mid-tribulation rapture theory, believe (just like the pre-trib teachers),that the separation takes place BEFORE the end of the world. But as I have shown from the Bible above, the separation takes place ONLY at the end of the world. Need more proof? Take a look at these Bible verses and you will notice that the focus is NOT about the church being taken away before the end, but rather AT the end of the world and the LAST DAY.
John 6:40. John 11:24. John 12:48.
Eternal life is given on the LAST DAY. The resurrection happens on the LAST DAY. Judgment is given on the LAST DAY.

Notice also what Jesus says in Matthew 28:20.
Now why would reassure us that He would be with us until the END OF THE WORLD, if we were to be raptured away BEFORE the end of the world? Doesn't make sense does it? Friend, the rapture teaching is a false one invented by Satan to cause God's people to be unprepared for the time of trouble ahead, that we WILL go through.

PAROUSIA AND APOKALUPSIS

Those who believe in a rapture say that the Greek word "parousia" refers to the secret coming of Jesus with the rapturing of the church and that the Greek word "apokalupsis" refers to the visible glorious coming of Jesus in power seven years later. So they believe from these Greek words that Christ will return in two phases, separated by the 7year tribulation. Well I have already proven from the Bible that there is no separation between the church and the wicked until the END OF THE WORLD. But let's take a look at "parousia" and "apokalupsis", and what we will show you is that BOTH are used to describe the SAME second coming, not two comings.

Paul uses the word "parousia" in 1 Thessalonians 4, which I have discussed above, when speaking of the coming of Christ and our gathering together unto Him. But Paul then shows that this "parousia" will destroy the man of sin; the Antichrist ... "whom the Lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [parousia]." 2 Thessalonians 2:8. So we have a problem. Paul is saying that it is DURING the "parousia" of Christ that the man of sin will be destroyed. And yet those who hold to the rapture teaching say that the man of sin will reign AFTER the "parousia". And will be destroyed until the physical "apokalupsis" coming of Christ.

"Apokalupsis" [revelation] is also used in a way that indicates it is NOT a separate coming from the time the believers are gathered up. Peter said in 1 Peter 1:13 ... "be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation [apokalupsis] of Jesus Christ;" Now why would Christians be exhorted to continue hoping to the end of the world for the grace brought through the revelation of jesus Christ if their real hope was a rapture seven years before the revelation? Fo you see the problems with this teaching? I hope so.

These following verses which give Matthew and Luke's account of the same event prove that the words "parousia" and "apokalupsis" do refer to the SAME ONE COMING OF CHRIST. In Matthew 24:37 it says ... "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming [parousia]of the Son of man be." ... And the same account in Luke 17:26,30 says ... "As it was in the days of Noah ... Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed [apokalupsis]." This is how we are to find out the TRUTH. We need to compare scripture with scripture.

So why are the two Greek words used? It's quite simple. Parousia means "presence", a VISIBLE return. And Apokalupsis means "to reveal", a REVEALING OF THE TRUTH. So to turn these two words into two separate comings make no sense whatsoever. They both describe the ONE event, the physical, visible, loud, fiery second coming of Christ, in which the truth will be REVEALED!!

WHO IS JESUS COMING AS THIEF' FOR?

There are many Christians who hold onto those few words ... "coming as a thief" ... separating them from the context and believing that Jesus is coming as a thief for the church. But let us look at what the apostle Paul says regarding Jesus coming 'as a thief'. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

These things become so clear when we read the context, rather than separating small pieces of scripture and building a faulty teaching on them. Can you see what Paul is saying above? WHO is Jesus going to return 'as a thief' for? THE WORLD! For whom does Jesus 'come suddenly', without them being aware? THE LOST. Which ties in perfectly with the parable of the wheat and tares, wherein the LOST are gathered FIRST. Paul confirms above in 1Thessalonians 5 that the saints are NOT overtaken 'as a thief', because we will be watching and waiting for the Lord, expecting His return.
Matthew 24:42-43
Can we know what "watch" the Lord is coming in? YES! This is why we are given signs of the times in the Bible, so we can know in which watch the Lord will return. We do not know the hour, but we CAN know in what 'watch', which is why the the 'goodman of the house' (the saints) ARE WATCHING AND WAITING!

John 10:10

What does a thief come to do? To steal and destroy! Is Jesus coming to steal and destroy! His church? No! He is coming back to steal and destroy the wicked. This is who Jesus is coming back as a thief for - the lost! But the church will be watching,and will NOT "suffer their house to be broken up." Oh how the truth becomes so clear when we read things in context!

Jesus is NOT coming back as a thief for the church. He is coming as a thief for the world!

WHAT HAPPENS AT THE END OF THE WORLD?

For Jesus to say "end of the world ",there must be some destructive event to take place right? So what event is coming that would be an "end of the world" event? THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST JESUS! Take a look at the following Bible verses describing the second coming and you will see that THIS is the event that will "end this world" as we know it.

Revelation 1:7. 2 Peter 3:10. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8. Psalm 50:3-4. Isaiah 34:8-10
Sounds like an end of the world event doesn't it? The destroying force of the second coming of Christ Jesus, as shown in the Bible verses above, will cause the earth to be "laid waste" as described in Isaiah above. Which means that the world will NOT continue on as we know it now, which the rapture theory proclaims. Instead, the wicked will be destroyed and the earth will be laid waste. And it is AT THIS TIME that the saints are taken to heaven, not before.

BUT WHAT ABOUT ONE TAKEN AND ONE LEFT BEHIND?

Matthew 24:37-42

This is such misunderstood passage of scripture today. Take a look at the context of the above Bible verses. Do you see that Jesus is telling us that His second coming will be like what happened in Noah's day? And what happened in the days of Noah? The above verses tells us. The flood DESTROYED the earth, taken away the wicked and leaving behind God's people (Noah's family). Who was "taken away" and who was "left behind" in Noah's day? Take a look at the above verses again. It was the wicked who were TAKEN and Noah was LEFT BEHIND! And this is what Christ is pointing us to. He is saying that the day is coming when the earth will be destroyed again and the wicked will be TAKEN and the saints will be LEFT BEHIND.

Please take note of the following VITAL point.

Luke 17:35-37

Why did the disciples ask 'WHERE, LORD'? Were they wondering where the one left behind was? No, that person would be in the same place as they were. So the disciples are clearly asking where has the one taken gone. And what did Jesus say? "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." The body? In the original language, the word Eagle can also mean Vulture. And where do Vultures gather? Where there is a dead body! And look what Job says about the Eagle:
Job 39:27-30

And in Matthew 24, Jesus even makes it clearer by saying it is a CARCASS! So the one taken is the wicked who will be killed.

And what did we already confirm would happen during the harvest at the end? Let's read it again ... 'and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, gathered ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.' (Matthew 13) ... The wicked are "taken" first and the saints are left behind to then be "gathered into My barn" (taken to heaven).

The whole context of Matthew 24 is a warning for us to "watch and be ready" so that the "sudden destruction" that is to come upon the world (1 Thessalonians 5:3) will not TAKE US by surprise. Just like what happened in Noah's day. Who were taken? The wicked. Who were left behind? Noah and his family!

CAUGHT UP TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR

In light of what we have learned above. What does it mean when the Bible says we will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air? Exactly as it says! You see, those who hold to the rapture theory try to get something out of this verse that just isn't there! The truth is, when Christ Jesus returns at the second coming, the wicked will be destroyed, the dead saints will be resurrected and the saints who are still alive will be "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air. And then we will be taken to heaven to start the 1000 year millennium.

And why do we "meet the Lord in the air? Because Jesus is NOT going to set foot upon the earth during the second coming. And the second phase of His return with the saints will be the END of the 1000 year millennium. This is another misunderstanding that the rapture theory causes. Jesus is not going to rule on earth during the 1000 years. Instead, we are going to be in heaven with Him during this time, and the earth will be "laid waste" from His second coming. And only AFTER the 1000 years will we return to earth with Christ.
The rapture theory is a false teaching, and the Bible proves that fact. But please know that if people do suddenly "disappear", Satan and his angels will be behind it!
Bless.

This idea goes against what the early church fathers thought. Most of the early church fathers said they were taught that the six days of creation correspond to six thousand years then the 1000 year millennium was like the sabbath when God rested , this time Jesus rules from Jerusalem. As far as the rapture is concerned my question is if you don’t have a pre trib rapture then who goes into the millennium to repopulate the earth? When Jesus comes back all the church is glorified and all the nonbelievers are taken away by Jesus then who is left to go into millennium? That is why I believe that the rapture must take place before the millennium after the church is gone ( fullness of the gentiles completed) then the veil is removed from the Jews and many will accept Jesus also the “church “ people who were not saved and others will see the truth and repent and become the tribulation saints, those who make it through will be those who repopulate the earth as Jesus reigns on David’s throne from Jerusalem. This is the only way I see all the puzzle pieces put together.

 

[Dan Perez]

This idea goes against what the early church fathers thought. Most of the early church fathers said they were taught that the six days of creation correspond to six thousand years then the 1000 year millennium was like the sabbath when God rested , this time Jesus rules from Jerusalem. As far as the rapture is concerned my question is if you don’t have a pre trib rapture then who goes into the millennium to repopulate the earth? When Jesus comes back all the church is glorified and all the nonbelievers are taken away by Jesus then who is left to go into millennium? That is why I believe that the rapture must take place before the millennium after the church is gone ( fullness of the gentiles completed) then the veil is removed from the Jews and many will accept Jesus also the “church “ people who were not saved and others will see the truth and repent and become the tribulation saints, those who make it through will be those who repopulate the earth as Jesus reigns on David’s throne from Jerusalem. This is the only way I see all the puzzle pieces put together.

And there is NOW Greek word called RAPTURE AT ALL . PERIOD .

# 1 And in 2 Thess 2:1 the word COMING //PAROUSIA of our Lord Jesus Christ , , even our gathering together unto Him !

# 2 In 2 Thess 2:3 No one should thoroughly DECIEVE YOU IN , NOT // ME , is a DISJUNJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , never

# 3 anyone DECIEVEEEEEEEEEEEEE , NEVERRRRRRRRRRR , except the DEPARTURE // APOSTASIA , meaning the departure

#4 of the BODY of CRIST is coming , SHOULD COME FIRST // PROTOS , and the MAN of SIN should be REVEALED

# 5 the son of DESTRUCTION 2 Thess 2:4 the one opposing and EXALTING Himself over all things being called God or OBJECT

# 6OF WORSHIP so that he as God is to sit down into the TEMPLE of God , exhibiting himself that he is God .

# 7 And here we see the the BODY of Christ , DEPARTURE , we see the MAN of sin after the DEPATURE of the BODY

# 8 OF CHRIST ,we see the anti- christ , and then the Great Tribulation .

# 9 And in Gal 1:4 we he word RECUSE //EXAIREO , meani ng to PLUCK OUT , another word for being caught up

# 11 and we see the word COMING // PAROUSIA in 1 Thess 3:13

This is why I am a DISPENSATIONALIST , PRE- TRI and PRE- MIL

dan p

 

[BobRyan]

And there is NOW Greek word called RAPTURE AT ALL . PERIOD .

# 1 And in 2 Thess 2:1 the word COMING //PAROUSIA of our Lord Jesus Christ , , even our gathering together unto Him !

# 2 In 2 Thess 2:3 No one should thoroughly DECIEVE YOU IN , NOT // ME , is a DISJUNJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , never

# 3 anyone DECIEVEEEEEEEEEEEEE , NEVERRRRRRRRRRR , except the DEPARTURE // APOSTASIA , meaning the departure

#4 of the BODY of CRIST is coming , SHOULD COME FIRST // PROTOS , and the MAN of SIN should be REVEALED

# 5 the son of DESTRUCTION 2 Thess 2:4 the one opposing and EXALTING Himself over all things being called God or OBJECT

# 6OF WORSHIP so that he as God is to sit down into the TEMPLE of God , exhibiting himself that he is God .

# 7 And here we see the the BODY of Christ , DEPARTURE , we see the MAN of sin after the DEPATURE of the BODY

# 8 OF CHRIST ,we see the anti- christ , and then the Great Tribulation .

# 9 And in Gal 1:4 we he word RECUSE //EXAIREO , meani ng to PLUCK OUT , another word for being caught up

# 11 and we see the word COMING // PAROUSIA in 1 Thess 3:13

This is why I am a DISPENSATIONALIST , PRE- TRI and PRE- MIL

dan p

2 Thess 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, (IE - the rapture) we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Matt 24:29 "immediately AFTER The Tribulation...." the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[BobRyan]

Bible Proof: The Rapture Theory is False. John 17:15

There is a teaching today that is rife within the Christian world, called rapture. What is the rapture theory? It is to believed by those who hold to this theory (and there are MANY who do), that the "church" will be raptured away to heaven and then the earth will continue for a period of seven years (called the tribulation) in which the inhabitants of the earth will be plunged into a time of great trouble and strife (more so than now). So according to this teaching there is a separation to take place between the saved and the lost BEFORE the end of the world.

In this teaching we are also that Christ will return in two "phases". The first will be a "quiet" affair with the saints being raptured away. And then the second phase after the seven year tribulation will be the "glorious, triumphant" return

There are three rapture versions
1. Pre-trib -- that you are describing above
2. Mid-trib - also similar to what you describe
3. post-trib - very different from what you are describing - but it does fit Matt 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2

, which according to this teaching, will usher in the 1000 year millennial reign on earth (which is also a false teaching).

The 1000 year reign is found in Rev 20:1-6.
But it is not on Earth since Rev 19 ends everything on Earth and so also does 2 Thess 1:5-8 end all the lost on Earth
and Jer 4:23-26 also shows a desolate Earth during the 1000 year millennium

Let me quickly show you an example of the weakness of the rapture doctrine - I came across a recent article stating '10 Irrefutable Proofs' for the rapture. Here are the first two 'irrefutable proofs' they quoted:

Number 1. "THE RAPTURE IS THE 'BLESSED HOPE' WHILE THE SECOND COMING IS A DAY TO BE GREATLY FEARED" ... They separate the rapture and second coming saying that the rapture is the 'blessed hope' quoting Titus 2:13, and the second coming is the 'FEARED day of the Lord', quoting Amos 5:18. They believe these must be different events, because one is to be hoped for, and the other is to be feared. But they fail to realize the simple truth that the second coming is the 'blessed hope' for the saved in Jesus, and to be 'greatly feared' by those who reject the Lord. Simple, logical truth.

Good point.

1 Peter 1:13 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 1:5-8 revealed flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the Gospel.

Number 2. "IN THE RAPTURE, JESUS COMES FOR HIS CHURCH, AT HIS SECOND COMING HE BRINGS THE CHURCH WITH HIM" ... They say that Jesus takes His church away in the rapture, quoting 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

True - He does do that.

And then Jesus comes back with the church at the second coming, quoting Revelation 19:14, which says: 'the armies which were in heaven followed him upon White horses." But what they fail to realize is that the 'armies' whom Jesus returns with are His angels, as Matthew 25:31 confirms, not the church.

True. And so it is all the same event.

"But what about 1 Thessalonians 4:14, where it says that those who sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him? This surely is talking about the church coming back from heaven after the rapture with Jesus at His physical return?" - No it's not. Rapture adherents love this verse, but they completely miss the context of what is being said here. Look at both vs. 13 and 14. Paul is clearly talking about those who are asleep in Christ, those who are in their graves waiting for His return. And what does Paul say to give encouragement concerning those who have died? He says that just as God raised Jesus from the dead, so He will bring with Jesus those who sleep in Him. In other words, those who have died, God will raise them from the dead, just like He rose Jesus from the dead.

1 Thess 4:13-18 makes the return of Christ, the appearing of Christ the rapture event where saints are "caught up" in the air (Rapturo in Latin)

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Paul explains how it is that those who have fallen asleep are not left to be last or even missed. He points out that at Christ's appearing it is the DEAD in Christ (not we who are alive and remain) that are caught up in the air first - before "we who are alive and remain"

NOTE: If the rapture theory is a true Biblical teaching. Why was it not well known and popularized until the early 20th century?

1 Thess 4 was written before the 20th century.

But as you noted - the "secret" 2-phase rapture-vs-appearing idea is a later idea

 

[Dan Perez]

There are three rapture versions
1. Pre-trib -- that you are describing above
2. Mid-trib - also similar to what you describe
3. post-trib - very different from what you are describing - but it does fit Matt 24:29-31 and 2 Thess 2

The 1000 year reign is found in Rev 20:1-6.
But it is not on Earth since Rev 19 ends everything on Earth and so also does 2 Thess 1:5-8 end all the lost on Earth
and Jer 4:23-26 also shows a desolate Earth during the 1000 year millennium

Good point.

1 Peter 1:13 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2 Thess 1:5-8 revealed flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the Gospel.

True - He does do that.

True. And so it is all the same event.

1 Thess 4:13-18 makes the return of Christ, the appearing of Christ the rapture event where saints are "caught up" in the air (Rapturo in Latin)

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

Paul explains how it is that those who have fallen asleep are not left to be last or even missed. He points out that at Christ's appearing it is the DEAD in Christ (not we who are alive and remain) that are caught up in the air first - before "we who are alive and remain"

1 Thess 4 was written before the 20th century.

But as you noted - the "secret" 2-phase rapture-vs-appearing idea is a later idea

And what I am just going to WRITE , has been KNOWN for over 2000 years , and where everyone BEEN ??

2 Thess 2:5 reads , Do you , NOT // is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE ,

THAT // NOTI , is a Conjuncation

WHEN I WAS // ON , is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , PARTICIPLE MOOD , NOMINATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL

YET // ETI , is an ADVERB

WITH // PROS , PERPOSITION

I TOLD // LEGO , IMPERFECT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , INDICATIVE MOOD , means you better believe it , in the SINGULAR ,

means to all believers during PAULS TIME .

YOU // HYMIN , is a POSSESSIVE PERSONAL PRONOUN , in the Greek DATIVE CASE , in the PLURAL , means to ALL .

THESE THINGS // TAUTA , in the Greek ACCUSATIVE CASE , IN THE NEUTER , meaning Male and Female

is a DEMONSTRTIVE PRONOUN .

So all GRACE BELIEVERS knew about it and verse 6-17 is GREAT READ !!

dan p

 

[FredVB]

This idea goes against what the early church fathers thought. Most of the early church fathers said they were taught that the six days of creation correspond to six thousand years then the 1000 year millennium was like the sabbath when God rested , this time Jesus rules from Jerusalem. As far as the rapture is concerned my question is if you don’t have a pre trib rapture then who goes into the millennium to repopulate the earth? When Jesus comes back all the church is glorified and all the nonbelievers are taken away by Jesus then who is left to go into millennium? That is why I believe that the rapture must take place before the millennium after the church is gone ( fullness of the gentiles completed) then the veil is removed from the Jews and many will accept Jesus also the “church “ people who were not saved and others will see the truth and repent and become the tribulation saints, those who make it through will be those who repopulate the earth as Jesus reigns on David’s throne from Jerusalem. This is the only way I see all the puzzle pieces put together.

I would not think a hard and fast conclusion can be rightly made of six days corresponding to six thousand years from what scriptures show. I consider that believers have more focus on a rapture ahead for them than is needed. There is no such deliverance for them from troubles they have in this world, that is an error. God would have them out from the world when God's judgment which is not for them would come in this world full of those who are unrepentant. There will be the collapse ahead of that.

 

[keras]

I would not think a hard and fast conclusion can be rightly made of six days corresponding to six thousand years from what scriptures show.

But the Bible does show exact 2000 year periods between Adam to Abram and from Abraham to Jesus. Now; almost another 2000 years since Jesus. These are facts, historical and logical.
Then we are told about the one thousand years when King Jesus will reign over the physical earth. Making a 7000 year total of Gods Plan for mankind.

Note; that God never 'raptured' the early Christian martyrs, or any Christians being killed for their faith now. This simple fact totally destroys the whole false idea of a removal to heaven for anyone.

 

[Jan001]

But the Bible does show exact 2000 year periods between Adam to Abram and from Abraham to Jesus. Now; almost another 2000 years since Jesus. These are facts, historical and logical.
Then we are told about the one thousand years when King Jesus will reign over the physical earth. Making a 7000 year total of Gods Plan for mankind.

Note; that God never 'raptured' the early Christian martyrs, or any Christians being killed for their faith now. This simple fact totally destroys the whole false idea of a removal to heaven for anyone.

Hi keras,

It seems to me that Jesus only returns bodily to earth once more, and it is at the end of time, and then the Judgment will begin in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 4:12) Jesus' kingdom is not a physical earthly kingdom. It seems to me that many people think that the thousand years mentioned in the Book of Revelation is literal, but the other Scriptures do not show this.

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power:

2 Timothy 4:8 From now on the crown of righteousness awaits me, which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but to all who have longed for his appearance.

1 Timothy 6:13-15 I charge [you] before God, who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus, who gave testimony under Pontius Pilate for the noble confession, 14 to keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ 15 that the blessed and only ruler will make manifest at the proper time, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

 

[keras]

Hi keras,

It seems to me that Jesus only returns bodily to earth once more, and it is at the end of time, and then the Judgment will begin in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 4:12) Jesus' kingdom is not a physical earthly kingdom. It seems to me that many people think that the thousand years mentioned in the Book of Revelation is literal, but the other Scriptures do not show this.

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ, offered once to take away the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await him.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power:

2 Timothy 4:8 From now on the crown of righteousness awaits me, which the Lord, the just judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but to all who have longed for his appearance.

1 Timothy 6:13-15 I charge [you] before God, who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus, who gave testimony under Pontius Pilate for the noble confession, 14 to keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ 15 that the blessed and only ruler will make manifest at the proper time, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

You cannot just dismiss the six mentions of a thousand year period in Revelation 20. Whatever next would you like to erase?
There IS other scriptural proofs; Genesis 1 and Hosea 6:2, +. Also Isaiah 2:1-4 and Zechariah 14:16-21, show how King Jesus will reign over the world after His Return. Why do you want to deny Jesus His reward? Psalms 2:8

The living and the dead, will be Judged AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Jan001]

You cannot just dismiss the six mentions of a thousand year period in Revelation 20. Whatever next would you like to erase?

I do not dismiss them. I don't agree with how you interpret this "thousand-year" period. It is a symbolic number only. Jesus' kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. He received his kingdom when he ascended into heaven after his resurrection. He will continue to reign at his Father's right hand over all the world UNTIL all his enemies are put under his feet. Jesus will definitely not descend bodily to earth and reign in Jerusalem for a literal one thousand years before the end of time.

Mark 12:36
David himself, inspired by the holy Spirit, said: ‘The Lord said to my lord, “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies under your feet.”’

Luke 22:69
But from this time on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”

Hebrews 10:12
But this one offered one sacrifice for sins, and took his seat forever at the right hand of God;

1 Peter 3:22
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.

1 Corinthians 15:22-27
For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, 23 but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; 24 then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death, 27 for “he subjected everything under his feet.” But when it says that everything has been subjected, it is clear that it excludes the one who subjected everything to him.

When is death destroyed, never to be experienced by any human being?
Death is destroyed forevermore when Jesus returns to earth at the end of time.

There IS other scriptural proofs; Genesis 1 and Hosea 6:2, +. Also Isaiah 2:1-4 and Zechariah 14:16-21, show how King Jesus will reign over the world after His Return. Why do you want to deny Jesus His reward? Psalms 2:8

These have all been fulfilled. Jesus has received his reward. Jesus, our savior and king, is now spiritually reigning over the whole world, as he is seated at the right hand of his Father. He will continue to rule from there until it is time for his second coming and the judgment of the living and the dead in the Valley of Jehoshaphat.

The Judah of the first covenant does not exist anymore. There is no way that a billion or billions of human people will be traveling to Jerusalem for the first covenant's many feast's days. Jesus nailed these first covenant requirements to the cross. They are no longer in force. They are no longer relevant.

Colossians 2:9-17 For in him dwells the whole fullness of the deity bodily, 10 and you share in this fullness in him, who is the head of every principality and power. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. 12 You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And even when you were dead [in] transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; 14 obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross; 15 despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it.
Practices Contrary to Faith: 16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

Isaiah's prophetic warning was specifically for Judah and Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:1-4 was fulfilled with the Babylonian captivity. A second fulfillment was when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD. Christians are now all one in Christ. There are no distinctions between nationalities. Galatians 3:28

The living and the dead, will be Judged AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Jesus returns bodily to earth only at the end of time, not before. The so-called millennium is actually the long time period between Jesus' resurrection and ascension into heaven and his second coming. All the saints in heaven are spiritually reigning with Jesus right now. They will reign with him until Jesus returns to earth at the end of time to judge the living and the dead.

John 5:28-29 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.

1 Corinthians 15:52
in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.