• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,256
13,959
73
✟421,322.00
Faith
Non-Denom
ceremonial sacrifices were added after the Gen 2:2-3 Sabbath was "made for mankind" (Mark 2:27) and so it was only AFTER the Gen 3 fall of mankind that the animal sacrifices are put in place - see Gen 4.

Prior to that the Sabbath was kept without any animal sacrifices.

Heb 10 -- all animal sacrifices end at the cross.

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down"
SabbathBlessings' assertion was that God never issued a commandment that man cannot keep. As I responded, that is patently false simply because there are innumerable commandments in the Bible which nobody has been able to obey since the Temple was sacked by the Roman emperor Titus in A. D. 70.

To be certain, there have been various alternatives to these commandments which have been promoted and accepted. Many Jews sincerely believe that various pious works substitute for blood sacrifices.
 
Upvote 0

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
10,113
3,436
✟991,609.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
We do not write the Ten Commandments - we obey them.

God is the one that said He rested and that He made the Sabbath binding on all mankind at the Gen 2:2-3 creation event.

Are not the words spoken to Abraham just as important regarding circumcision? it too is an everlasting covenant. So if we can dismiss away the Abrahamic covenant and call it spiritual (when the instructions were explicit in the flesh) then why can't we understand the Sinaitic covenant the same way? the ten commandments are not given to us and although they continue to point to spiritual revelation we are not under it's physical law. we are under Christ's law.

looking at creation God did not rest on the 7th day, he "sabbathed" (verb) on the 7th day. Sabbath can be rest but it also means to cease. God ceases his work because he is finished. In this sense he rested from his work not out of obligation or need but because the work was accomplished and the two concepts are inseparable. it says this right in the text Gen 2:2 "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work." the act of sabbath here is the result of completed work and God would not sabbath if the work was not complete. the value of the sabbath on the 7th day needs to include not just ceased work but completed work an act we cannot accomplish ourselves. Thus the 4th commandment can never be fulfilled through our own power. we may rest as hard as we wish, but we still cannot keep the sabbath, because we cannot accomplish the work. Christ of course can (and did), and by our luck he is lord of the Sabbath by his own admission so he has authority over the sabbath.

The New Covenant of Heb 8 comes from Jer 31:31-34 where we find the commandments of God as known in the OT - written on the heart.

BOTH covenants have "do not take God's name in vain" -- BOTH have the TEN - - BOTH have Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

The OLD Covenant is of the form "obey and live" as see was the case for mankind in Gen 2.

But after the fall of man -- only the NEW Covenant serves as the way to eternal life - starting with the fall of Adam and ever since,
Even NT writers affirm this
there are universal aspects of the law that even if unwritten, stand true. Being a servant of God demands not to take his name in vain, or have other gods, or graven images. This is innate through a monotheistic relationship and although just as valuable today as it ever was has less meaning because polythesim is far less practiced today or a temptation. Monotheistic practices needed to be emphasized at the time of Moses because they were real problems people dealt with. The 10 commandments acted as a polemic of its time to emphasize monotheistic practices and broad pillars of civil order that were unpopular values of surrounding cultures. The 4th commandment however, cannot be universally understood as it needs to be told to understand it. Rest is needed and routine rest is important but the 4th commandment is specific, and its detail cannot be naturally deduced simply from our physical need for rest. A 7-day cycle is not a natural cycle; you could argue a lunar cycle could be and somehow dividedd into 4 but it would become out of sync with the requirement of the law as a 7 day cycle does not align to a lunar cycle. There is no natural 7-day cycle so in order to understand a requirement to rest on the 7th day, someone needs to tell us why, otherwise the day you rest or how many days you wait is an arbitrary detail.

The babalonians also venerated the 7th day and even had a type of ceasing (more like a hiding), they infact are credited with the 7 day week, calling each day after the 7 known celestial objects of it's day (the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) the greeks and romans continued this practice and to this day the days of the week are still named after these vernerated celestial objects from Babylon. We can dismiss these values today as silly but in its day had a strong influence, and Israel needed a redeemed system that was stripped of paganism and emphasized monotheistic practices. This is the need of the 10 commandment and 4th commandment is a part of this, turning a day from pagan practices to monotheistic. Those demands are not the same today, and those commandments are not given to us nor were they re-etched into stone for us to continue to follow but they do have deeper meaings that points to Christ. We can critically think past these circumstances and worship God in spirit and truth not just because a day of the week tells us so.

You can reject every word here, yet still these commandments are absent in the NT as instruction but the one that is clear and is consistently taught through out the NT and even show it fulfulls all the law and the prophets is what is affectionatly called "Christ's law" that is often reduced to "love you neighbour as yourself"
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,256
13,959
73
✟421,322.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Are not the words spoken to Abraham just as important regarding circumcision? it too is an everlasting covenant. So if we can dismiss away the Abrahamic covenant and call it spiritual (when the instructions were explicit in the flesh) then why can't we understand the Sinaitic covenant the same way? the ten commandments are not given to us and although they continue to point to spiritual revelation we are not under it's physical law. we are under Christ's law.

looking at creation God did not rest on the 7th day, he "sabbathed" (verb) on the 7th day. Sabbath can be rest but it also means to cease. God ceases his work because he is finished. In this sense he rested from his work not out of obligation or need but because the work was accomplished and the two concepts are inseparable. it says this right in the text Gen 2:2 "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work." the act of sabbath here is the result of completed work and God would not sabbath if the work was not complete. the value of the sabbath on the 7th day needs to include not just ceased work but completed work an act we cannot accomplish ourselves. Thus the 4th commandment can never be fulfilled through our own power. we may rest as hard as we wish, and we still cannot keep the sabbath, because we cannot accomplish the work. Christ of course, and by our luck he is lord of the Sabbath but his own admission so he has authority over the sabbath.


there are universal aspects of the law that even if unwritten, stand true. Being a servant of God demands not to take his name in vain, or have other gods, or graven images. This is innate through a monotheistic relationship and although just as valuable today as it ever was has less meaning because polythesim is far less practices today. Monotheistic practices needed to be emphasized at the time of Moses and the 10 commandments acted as a polemic of its time to emphasises monotheistic practices and broad pillars or civil that were very much unpopular values of surrounding cultures.

The babalonians also venerated the 7th day and even had a type of ceasing (more like a hiding), they infact are credited with the 7 day week, calling each day after the 7 known celestial objects of it's day (the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) the greeks and romans continued this practice and to this day the days of the week are still named after these vernerated celestial objects from Babylon. We can dismiss these values today as silly but in its day had a strong influence, and Israel needed a redeemed system that was stripped of paganism and emphasized monotheistic practices. This is the need of the 10 commandment and 4th commandment is a part of this, turning a day from pagan practices to monotheistic. Those demands are not the same today, and those commandments are not given to us nor were they re-etched into stone for us to continue to follow but they do have deeper meaings that points to Christ. We can critically think past these circumstances and worship God in spirit and truth not just because a day of the week tells us so.

You can reject every word here, yet still these commandments are absent in the NT as instruction but the one that is clear and is consistently taught through out the NT and even show it fulfulls all the law and the prophets is what is affectionatly called "Christ's law" that is often reduced to "love you neighbour as yourself"
Thank you. I am still working on loving my neighbor as myself. When I have mastered that commandment I will turn my attention to the others.
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
4,935
2,039
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟551,868.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Which goes back to my earlier post in which I suggested that some folks consider the New Covenant merely to be a regurgitation of the Old Covenant and not really NEW in any viable sense of the word.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For The just shall live by faith. And this faith establishes the Law and speaks on this wise, say not in your heart who shall ascend up into heaven, that is bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But what sayeth it? The word is nigh thee. In thy mouth and in thy heart. THAT IS the word of faith in which we preach. As God had said, A new covenant I will make with you. I will put my Laws in your hearts and in your minds I will write them. I will give unto to you a new spirit. For it is I who works in you both to will and do my good pleasure.


Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
30,256
13,959
73
✟421,322.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For The just shall live by faith. And this faith establishes the Law and speaks on this wise, say not in your heart who shall ascend up into heaven, that is bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But what sayeth it? The word is nigh thee. In thy mouth and in thy heart. THAT IS the word of faith in which we preach. As God had said, A new covenant I will make with you. I will put my Laws in your hearts and in your minds I will write them. I will give unto to you a new spirit. For it is I who works in you both to will and do my good pleasure.


Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
I am gratified to know that we, along with Paul, agree on justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HIM
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
4,935
2,039
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟551,868.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I am gratified to know that we, along with Paul, agree on justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ.
I don’t see where this isn’t true for all here posting on this thread, praise God!
 
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
4,935
2,039
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟551,868.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There are many professing Christians who hold to a synergistic view in which God does His part in salvation and we are required to do our part.
I don’t believe there is one poster here posting here that does not agree with this quote
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For The just shall live by faith. And this faith establishes the Law and speaks on this wise, say not in your heart who shall ascend up into heaven, that is bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But what sayeth it? The word is nigh thee. In thy mouth and in thy heart. THAT IS the word of faith in which we preach. As God had said, A new covenant I will make with you. I will put my Laws in your hearts and in your minds I will write them. I will give unto to you a new spirit. For it is I who works in you both to will and do my good pleasure.


Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
 
Upvote 0