As Texas Flood Deaths Rise, Officials Blast Faulty Forecast by National Weather Service

[essentialsaltes]

In my experience a flash flood warning is always a call for evacuating

That may be how you experience it, but the NWS does not call for evacuations. Only local officials can do so.

 

[BCP1928]

Musk is right about one thing in that video... It *is* our gold in Fort Knox. Gold was made illegal to possess in the United States between 1933 and 1974, and all gold had to be turned in, melted down, and surrendered to the government... And that's where all the gold in Fort Knox came from.

Not sure if it's the Mandella Effect that prevents people from knowing this..? But it's true.

That was just a fun fact that I had to let loose. Sorry. Now returning to the conversation at hand.

In 1933 my grandfather buried a length of pipe full of $20 gold pieces in the back yard. In 1951 he passed away and my grandmother dug them up again. There were enough that she could give one to her descendants for high school and college graduation all the way down to my kids and my nieces and nephews. They were to be for "emergencies" but I believe most of them are still in the family.

 

[Fantine]

I was speaking of my own experience living in both States for many many years. Living in California if you want to paint your house in June, I could count on it not to rain. At least in the 30+ years I lived there. In Texas you can't schedule anything like painting your house in the summer or really anytime, because it could be hailing, it could start off sunny and 5 minutes start later start pouring down rain. If you do not understand this, chances are you never lived in Texas. That's why there is the saying, if you don't like the weather in Texas, wait a few minutes.

Also, you cannot count "sunny days" in Texas like you do in California. They count mostly cloudy days with a bit of sun mainly around evenings as sunny days where in CA it is sunny the whole day without a cloud in the sky. If anyone who has lived in both states understands what I am speaking about, at least in the areas I lived in Texas and CA

I am sure you agree that all the States need FEMA assistance in crises.
Our state had a tornado pass through small towns. The governor, Trump's former press secretary, had to bow and scrape and grovel for months to get a dime.
Eventually the federal govt said it would pay individual claims but damage to public buildings and roads was up to the state. The state told the towns they could pay for 35%.
How does a town with a gas station, dollar store, and Baptist church get that 65%?
When nothing can be done, pray.
When your vote results in callous disregard for desperate needs--protest, lobby, and vote the calloused out. Help with your shallow pockets--but know a better solution is needed.

 

[keith99]

More information has come out, and one of the directors was monitoring the alerts -- the camp leadership knew about the afternoon's Flash Flood Watch -- and, per the family, the Executive Director got the Severe Flood Warning on his phone at 1:14. If he can be criticized, though I'm not sure the facts warrant it, it might be that he had staffers monitor the river and only when it started raining hard, an hour later, did he begin evacuations. It appears that wasn't what led to the deaths, though, as this flood was much worse than those seen historically and the girls who died and are missing came from cabins that historically were in a "safe" zone. It is also worth noting that the Executive Director, Dick Eastland, was one of those that died in the flooding as he was attempting to help rescue some of the youngest girls.

The camp is at the junction of Cypress Creek and the South Fork of the Guadalupe River and, with both rivers being so swollen, evidence is showing that the Guadalupe River actually started flowing backwards because of the amount of flood waters at the junction. This back flow, with the eddies it caused in the areas of the camp, is what appears to have caused the flooding of the "Handy Hut," where the missing girls were staying, that was well into the traditional safe zone.

So there are concerns about the speed of the response; as well as if the camp buildings, particularly ones that people slept in, should have been allowed to remain in the flood zones (and even in the relatively "safe" areas that flooded this year). It is a tragedy, for all involved, and hopefully it can lead to safer camps in the future.

With all the camp staff work I did there is only one time that I recall where there was a death anywhere close to me.

For over a decade I went on an Easter trip to Lake Mohave. We would start at Kathrine's Landing and head to a campsite closer to the damn. (When I started as a preteen some of the High School kids left right after class to grab the camp sight. The last time was one of 3 who left Friday after work a full week before Easter break. At that point it was becoming too populated to be safe and the tradition died).

There were other groups scattered along most of the East side of the lake. One year a group in Cottonwood Basin, the widest part of the lake, 3 miles wide, had large canoes. Everyone in a canoe wore a life jacket. But one or more tipped over and the wind was coming from the East. Probably only a couple hundred yards offshore, but they never made it, They died of exposure on a clear warm day.

Moving kids at night in much colder and wet conditions would not have been an obvious decision.

In their situation I would not have moved kids until I had somewhere to move them to for as long as possible.

 

[probinson]

The “blame” falls on those who vehemently opposed using Federal monies to build a siren-based warning system for their (own) county, because they had fears that if they had accepted the monies, the Feds, (Biden Administration, at the time) could come into the county and make them take COVID shots.

Source?

When it was all said and done, the county approved $7 million in ARPA dollars on a public safety radio communications system for the sheriff’s department and county fire services to meet the community’s needs for the next 10 years, although earlier estimates put that contract at $5 million. Another $1 million went to sheriff’s employees in the form of stipends and raises, and just over $600,000 went towards additional county positions. A new walking path was also created with the ARPA money.​

​

While much has been made of the ARPA spending, it’s not clear if residents or the commissioners understood at the time they could have applied the funds to a warning system. Kelly, the Kerr County judge, and Thomas have declined repeated requests for interviews. Moser, who is no longer a commissioner, did not immediately respond to a Texas Tribune interview request.​

​

Did fiscal conservatism block plans for a new flood warning system in Kerr County?

In the last nine years, federal funding for a system has been denied to the county as it contends with a tax base hostile to government overspending.

www.texastribune.org

​

 

[Say it aint so]

No I’m not interested in speculation to push a particular political agenda I’m interested in actual facts.

??? That areas warning coordinator, where that is his specific job, was budget cut retired and not replaced.

 

[Pommer]

Source?

When it was all said and done, the county approved $7 million in ARPA dollars on a public safety radio communications system for the sheriff’s department and county fire services to meet the community’s needs for the next 10 years, although earlier estimates put that contract at $5 million. Another $1 million went to sheriff’s employees in the form of stipends and raises, and just over $600,000 went towards additional county positions. A new walking path was also created with the ARPA money.​

​

While much has been made of the ARPA spending, it’s not clear if residents or the commissioners understood at the time they could have applied the funds to a warning system. Kelly, the Kerr County judge, and Thomas have declined repeated requests for interviews. Moser, who is no longer a commissioner, did not immediately respond to a Texas Tribune interview request.​

​

Did fiscal conservatism block plans for a new flood warning system in Kerr County?

In the last nine years, federal funding for a system has been denied to the county as it contends with a tax base hostile to government overspending.

www.texastribune.org

​

Here’s the relevant meeting (noting that the Judge and commissioners voted to keep the money but ultimately used the funds for gewgaws for the police), comments from the public start about half way in. None rose to say, “let’s take the money and build an emergency warning system.”

 

[probinson]

Here’s the relevant meeting (noting that the Judge and commissioners voted to keep the money but ultimately used the funds for gewgaws for the police), comments from the public start about half way in. None rose to say, “let’s take the money and build an emergency warning system.”

Did anyone rise to say, "let's not take the money because if we do, the government will force us to get COVID shots?" That was your original claim.

 

[wing2000]

Did anyone rise to say, "let's not take the money because if we do, the government will force us to get COVID shots?" That was your original claim.

...not quite. As I posted earlier in the thread, it was more in the spirit of "if it's BIDEN's money, we don't want it." (paraphrsing). And this certainly was not the first county meeting to discuss the topic.


Kerr County did not opt for ARPA to fund flood warning systems despite commissioners discussing such projects nearly two dozen times since 2016. In fact, a survey sent to residents about ARPA spending showed that 42% of the 180 responses wanted to reject the $10 million bonus altogether, largely on political grounds.

“I’m here to ask this court today to send this money back to the Biden administration, which I consider to be the most criminal treasonous communist government ever to hold the White House,” one resident told commissioners in April 2022, fearing strings were attached to the money.

“We don't want to be bought by the federal government, thank you very much,” another resident told commissioners. “We'd like the federal government to stay out of Kerr County and their money.”

Did fiscal conservatism block plans for a new flood warning system in Kerr County?

In the last nine years, federal funding for a system has been denied to the county as it contends with a tax base hostile to government overspending.

www.texastribune.org

 

[SimplyMe]

I was speaking of my own experience living in both States for many many years. Living in California if you want to paint your house in June, I could count on it not to rain. At least in the 30+ years I lived there. In Texas you can't schedule anything like painting your house in the summer or really anytime, because it could be hailing, it could start off sunny and 5 minutes start later start pouring down rain. If you do not understand this, chances are you never lived in Texas. That's why there is the saying, if you don't like the weather in Texas, wait a few minutes.

Also, you cannot count "sunny days" in Texas like you do in California. They count mostly cloudy days with a bit of sun mainly around evenings as sunny days where in CA it is sunny the whole day without a cloud in the sky. If anyone who has lived in both states understands what I am speaking about, at least in the areas I lived in Texas and CA

Did you bother reading what I wrote? Again, the first issue is where in Texas are you talking about, as it is a huge state and has different climates in different areas? Next, same with California, though much of California is a form of desert and gets less than 20 inches of rain a year (which sounds like what you are describing). Additionally, the wet months in California are in the winter where the wet months in Texas are in the summer. So, of course, it is going to be much more likely to rain in Texas in the summer, where it gets (depending on exact area) 3 times more precipitation in a year and has its wettest months then, compared to California which has its wet months in Winter.

 

[probinson]

...not quite. As I posted earlier in the thread, it was more in the spirit of "if it's BIDEN's money, we don't want it." (paraphrsing).

Yes, I saw that. I just didn't see anything about it being because they were concerned about COVID shots.

Kerr County did not opt for ARPA to fund flood warning systems despite commissioners discussing such projects nearly two dozen times since 2016. In fact, a survey sent to residents about ARPA spending showed that 42% of the 180 responses wanted to reject the $10 million bonus altogether, largely on political grounds.

“I’m here to ask this court today to send this money back to the Biden administration, which I consider to be the most criminal treasonous communist government ever to hold the White House,” one resident told commissioners in April 2022, fearing strings were attached to the money.

“We don't want to be bought by the federal government, thank you very much,” another resident told commissioners. “We'd like the federal government to stay out of Kerr County and their money.”

Did fiscal conservatism block plans for a new flood warning system in Kerr County?

In the last nine years, federal funding for a system has been denied to the county as it contends with a tax base hostile to government overspending.

www.texastribune.org

That article went on to say, "it’s not clear if residents or the commissioners understood at the time they could have applied the funds to a warning system." Regardless, the local government did accept the money and did not refuse it because they were concerned about COVID shots, and that is the claim I was responding to.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Did you bother reading what I wrote? Again, the first issue is where in Texas are you talking about, as it is a huge state and has different climates in different areas? Next, same with California, though much of California is a form of desert and gets less than 20 inches of rain a year (which sounds like what you are describing). Additionally, the wet months in California are in the winter where the wet months in Texas are in the summer. So, of course, it is going to be much more likely to rain in Texas in the summer, where it gets (depending on exact area) 3 times more precipitation in a year and has its wettest months then, compared to California which has its wet months in Winter.

As I stated I have lived in both states so I have a pretty good understanding firsthand of the weather patterns, but I appreciate your thoughts. I again was speaking of my experience. I understand Texas and California are big states. I traveled more in CA than Texas as there (in my opinion), is a ton more to do in CA than Texas (that relates to me and my family) and also lived there longer so am familiar with the change in climates in the different towns.

Texas is not always wet in the summers, but does get more rain than CA for sure. This summer as been particularly wet in Texas but when it comes to weather in Texas nothing is consistent except being consistently inconsistent.

 

[essentialsaltes]

2 minutes ago — NOAA was developing a way to predict extreme rainfall — until Trump officials stopped it. The tool would have projected how climate change ...

 

[SimplyMe]

I was speaking of my own experience living in both States for many many years. Living in California if you want to paint your house in June, I could count on it not to rain. At least in the 30+ years I lived there. In Texas you can't schedule anything like painting your house in the summer or really anytime, because it could be hailing, it could start off sunny and 5 minutes start later start pouring down rain. If you do not understand this, chances are you never lived in Texas. That's why there is the saying, if you don't like the weather in Texas, wait a few minutes.

Also, you cannot count "sunny days" in Texas like you do in California. They count mostly cloudy days with a bit of sun mainly around evenings as sunny days where in CA it is sunny the whole day without a cloud in the sky. If anyone who has lived in both states understands what I am speaking about, at least in the areas I lived in Texas and CA

Oh, as for the saying about "Texas" -- that same saying exists pretty much everywhere. It dates back to the early part of the 20th Century and is attributed to both Mark Twain and also Will Rogers.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh, as for the saying about "Texas" -- that same saying exists pretty much everywhere. It dates back to the early part of the 20th Century and is attributed to both Mark Twain and also Will Rogers.

Not everywhere, definitely not California in the 30+ years I lived there.

I have lived all over the country including even in Europe for a bit and never experienced weather like Texas.

 

[Chesterton]

Did you bother reading what I wrote? Again, the first issue is where in Texas are you talking about, as it is a huge state and has different climates in different areas? Next, same with California, though much of California is a form of desert and gets less than 20 inches of rain a year (which sounds like what you are describing). Additionally, the wet months in California are in the winter where the wet months in Texas are in the summer. So, of course, it is going to be much more likely to rain in Texas in the summer, where it gets (depending on exact area) 3 times more precipitation in a year and has its wettest months then, compared to California which has its wet months in Winter.

Don't know where you got your info, but it's wrong. The wet months in that part of Texas are in the spring, April and/or May. The local joke is that TV weathermen should get the whole summer off like schoolteachers, because the forecast is the same every day from June through August - "hot and dry".

 

[Say it aint so]

2 minutes ago — NOAA was developing a way to predict extreme rainfall — until Trump officials stopped it. The tool would have projected how climate change ...

This kind of stuff just boggles my mind. They are literally white washing science where any research or tool having anything to do with climate change is just eradicated. The GOP approach to climate change is literally this:

 

[essentialsaltes]

This kind of stuff just boggles my mind. They are literally white washing science where any research or tool having anything to do with climate change is just eradicated.

That's what happens when political correctness actually takes over. Not just someone wagging a finger at you for saying 'Oriental', but research into 'taboo' areas being eliminated and defunded.

 

[keith99]

Oh, as for the saying about "Texas" -- that same saying exists pretty much everywhere. It dates back to the early part of the 20th Century and is attributed to both Mark Twain and also Will Rogers.

I got caught in a monsoon in Australia. It blew through so fast that I never made it to shelter, even though I was on a city street. It was clear just before that, though it was a mixed day, which is why I had an umbrella before it hit. After I had a mess that had once been an umbrella.

In California I have experienced hailstorms that lasted under 5 minutes. Both in Los Angeles and on the Sacramento-San Joaguin River delta.

Heck I've seen sunny and clear in my back yard and moderate rain in the front yard.

 

[Chesterton]

Heck I've seen sunny and clear in my back yard and moderate rain in the front yard.

This is common in the Hawaiian islands. The locals have a term for it, but I can't remember what it is. I remember once being on a hotel balcony basking in the sun and about fifty feet away it was pouring down rain.