Florida Republican Says Abortion Law Fear Delayed Her Care for Ectopic Pregnancy

[ralliann]

I think it was more the attorneys who were double-checking the law since the abortion rights activists were activisting and causing trouble.

It just sounds off. I think more is being made of what went on, than is needed. At least that is how it has been in the past. I have a family member who has a child which died in the womb. they decided the best approach was to wait and see if the child aborted naturally. This had happened before. The first time it did abort naturally. That was much easier on her body.

 

[Pommer]

Well you would think doctors would know the law on this. Especially here. baby's can't last long growing outside of the womb.

Considering that physicians who get it incorrect could very well face capital murder charges, I’m not surprised that most demur when presented with an “iffy” scenario.

 

[ralliann]

Considering that physicians who get it incorrect could very well face capital murder charges, I’m not surprised that most demur when presented with an “iffy” scenario.

I do not really think this was the issue. It depends on the situation with the baby, and best procedure. Complications inside the womb, can be enough to consider, but outside the womb? I would think various scenarios would increase. I just do not think it had anything to do with FEAR of the law, but best practice for the situation.

 

[A New Dawn]

It just sounds off. I think more is being made of what went on, than is needed. At least that is how it has been in the past. I have a family member who has a child which died in the womb. they decided the best approach was to wait and see if the child aborted naturally. This had happened before. The first time it did abort naturally. That was much easier on her body.

Except the woman in the article had an ectopic pregnancy, which only ever ends in rupture and hemorrhage (a life-threatening condition) if untreated, or quick expulsion (non-life-threatening) if treatment is received.

 

[Pommer]

I do not really think this was the issue. It depends on the situation with the baby, and best procedure. Complications inside the womb, can be enough to consider, but outside the womb? I would think various scenarios would increase. I just do not think it had anything to do with FEAR of the law, but best practice for the situation.

Best practice with ectopic pregnancy is to abort ASAP.

 

[ralliann]

Except the woman in the article had an ectopic pregnancy, which only ever ends in rupture and hemorrhage (a life-threatening condition) if untreated, or quick expulsion (non-life-threatening) if treatment is received.

Only ends or likely ends? I think it depends on where the baby is. As well as the fact, that the baby is alive. I had an ectopic pregnancy myself. it was in my fallopian tube. The baby could only get so large until it ruptured my tube. If it had died prior to that size it would quit growing. The child in this situation was dead.

 

[A New Dawn]

Except the woman in the article had an ectopic pregnancy, which only ever ends in rupture and hemorrhage (a life-threatening condition) if untreated, or quick expulsion (non-life-threatening) if treatment is received.

Either way, if it was dead, the doctors aren't killing an unborn baby. If it was alive, the baby would rupture the fallopian tube, causing hemorrhaging and, likely, death to the mother. Sometimes a woman has an ectopic pregnancy inside the abdomen, in which case that is a different situation and doesn't always end poorly.

I hope you got your situation taken care of without incident and I'm sorry for the death of the baby (if it died (I wasn't sure how it was resolved for you.))

 

[ralliann]

Either way, if it was dead, the doctors aren't killing an unborn baby.

True. The baby in this kind of pregnancy cannot survive.

If it was alive, the baby would rupture the fallopian tube, causing hemorrhaging and, likely, death to the mother.

This is what happened to me. I did not know I was pregnant. Just thought I was late... It took a day or two for the tube to burst after that. It was painful, lasted about 45 minutes. And was over. Until I was having problems several days later. Went to a doc, surgery asap. It had ripped my tube all the way down, and infection had destroyed one ovary along with it. So one ovary and one tube was removed.

Sometimes a woman has an ectopic pregnancy inside the abdomen, in which case that is a different situation and doesn't always end poorly.
I hope you got your situation taken care of without incident and I'm sorry for the death of the baby (if it died (I wasn't sure how it was resolved for you.))

Well what I thought was a late start was not. Basically I miscarried (the baby itself), and it destroyed some things there, by infection. It was a VERY unpleasant experience. I was young, 20 yrs old, never knew of such things

 

[chilehed]

Are. YOU. a. medical. Lawyer?

You do realise that by asking that sort of question you just look like someone who's desperately grasping at straws to pretend that he has an intelligent objection to something that's obvious to anyone that doesn't have an axe to grind.

If you are a lawyer (of any sort), you might try providing a coherent legal explanation for how the law doesn't mean what the words themselves say. If you don't, then that'll just be taken by every rational person that there is no such explanation.

 

[chilehed]

Best practice with ectopic pregnancy is to abort ASAP.

But that's not an abortion. Abortion is "the directly willed termination of a pregnancy as an end in and of itself". In the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy the death of the child is a secondary effect that is known in advance but that is unwilled.

 

[Pommer]

But that's not an abortion. Abortion is "the directly willed termination of a pregnancy as an end in and of itself". In the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy the death of the child is a secondary effect that is known in advance but that is unwilled.

No, but the termination of an etopic pregnancy is an abortion.
What you’re doing is describing how you explain this medical procedure (abortion) so that it’s not an abortion, (as you have alluded to), to keep your own conscious clear (one supposes).

There are going to be some pregnancies that will necessarily end being terminated before viability.
The “great debate” is about when this is “okay”.

 

[NxNW]

Beats me. It's a perfectly sensible law that some people, for some twisted reason, are so freaked out over that they have to make up hyperventilated nonsense about it.

It's not nonsense when women are dying as a result of the law.

 

[NxNW]

But that's not an abortion. Abortion is "the directly willed termination of a pregnancy as an end in and of itself". In the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy the death of the child is a secondary effect that is known in advance but that is unwilled.

How do we know it's unwilled? Maybe she never wanted to be pregnant in the first place.

 

[NxNW]

I think it was more the attorneys who were double-checking the law since the abortion rights activists were activisting and causing trouble.

The abortion rights activists weren't responsible for any delays; they're pushing for abortion rights, not abortion delays. It's the Republican law that resulted in this situation.

 

[A New Dawn]

But that's not an abortion. Abortion is "the directly willed termination of a pregnancy as an end in and of itself". In the treatment for an ectopic pregnancy the death of the child is a secondary effect that is known in advance but that is unwilled.

To abortion supporters there is no difference between an elective abortion and a medically required surgery. Abortion clinics only do elective abortions. I suppose I have heard that some doctors refer their patients who need medically required surgeries to them, but that is disappointing since real doctors have always had the right to perform those life-saving surgeries themselves.

 

[A New Dawn]

The abortion rights activists weren't responsible for any delays; they're pushing for abortion rights, not abortion delays. It's the Republican law that resulted in this situation.

You keep saying that and the woman in the article denies that. I’ll take her word for it.

 

[NxNW]

You keep saying that and the woman in the article denies that. I’ll take her word for it.

She's lying in order to defend the Republican law that put her in danger. Doctors don't make decisions based on protesters.

 

[ralliann]

Not but the termination of an etopic pregnancy is an abortion.

I had a miscarriage; I did not have an abortion.

 

[Belk]

You do realise that by asking that sort of question you just look like someone who's desperately grasping at straws to pretend that he has an intelligent objection to something that's obvious to anyone that doesn't have an axe to grind.

If you are a lawyer (of any sort), you might try providing a coherent legal explanation for how the law doesn't mean what the words themselves say. If you don't, then that'll just be taken by every rational person that there is no such explanation.

No, I realize that a bunch of laymen running around making bold claims when they have no expertise in the area in question is just a bunch of people demonstrating why the Dunning-Kruger effect is a thing. The law is exceedingly complex and to claim, with no experience, that you know more then the lawyers employed by the medical staff strikes me as hubris. You do not know how this law interacts with other areas of the law nor what other intricacies might be involved. So, if you have no experience in the law I'll take your layman's understanding for what it is worth and put it well below that of the professionals who advise the hospital and the doctors.

 

[chilehed]

Not but the termination of an etopic pregnancy is an abortion.

No, by definition it is not. This misunderstanding you have is the direct result of more than a half century's abandonment of Natural Law and a coherent moral theology. Prior to Roe v. Wade, every doctor understood the difference. Also, the statute itself codifies the distinction. Read it carefully.

It's not nonsense when women are dying as a result of the law.

They're not dying as a result of the law. They're dying as a result of an apparently intentional mischaracterization of the law, for political ends.