Is This The New Normal?

[A New Dawn]

Some Democrats are right in saying America may be moving toward authoritarianism.

But they are likely wrong. The only authoritarianism we’ve seen is Biden/the persons behind Biden weaponizing the DoJ.

“Some Democrats” are ticked off because Trump was voted into office and they are no longer in power. Even classic liberals like Bill Maher and John Fetterman know there is nothing resembling authoritarianism in this country now, but Biden’s administration was pushing the envelope pretty close.

 

[wing2000]

What world do you live in? Obama built the cages. Trump only used them till he could get proper border housing built.

I live in the following world:

1) Holding facilities including "cages" as they were called, existed during the Obama years.
2) The Obama administration only detained children who did not have an accompanying adult or parent....or the child was otherwise in danger.
3) The Obama administration never had a policy of family separation.

Trump did....and does.

As for Trump, in June all ICE facilities were over-capacity...to the tune of 20k.

 

[A New Dawn]

You are correct that I did not address January 6, as I am not interested in engaging in "whataboutism." If individuals were arrested after January 6 without due process, it would have been inappropriate under the Biden administration, just as it would be now under the Trump administration.

I do not have loyalty to any political party or ideology. My allegiance is to Jesus Christ and, as an American, to the United States. I am willing to critique any administration, whether Biden, Obama, or Trump, when I believe they are wrong, and see no need to defend actions I consider incorrect.

It’s pretty darn convenient to say “I’m not interested in engaging in “whataboutism”” when the deeds are already done and guilty people have gotten off scott free while the other sides toes are being held to the flame with no end in sight. REALLY convenient. But regardless of where you say your loyalties lay, did you or did you not as a citizen of the US and a child of God, raise even a little stink about the Jan. 6ers being held for YEARS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS? I mean, it sounds like you REALLY care NOW that that Trump is in office and you have HIS policies to wail against, but did people who were REALLY being held without due process even faze you, because I’m just seeing convenient outrage here.

 

[A New Dawn]

I live in the following world:

1) Holding facilities including "cages" as they were called, existed during the Obama years.
2) The Obama administration only detained children who did not have an accompanying adult or parent....or the child was otherwise in danger.
3) The Obama administration never had a policy of family separation.

Trump did....and does.

As for Trump, in June all ICE facilities were over-capacity...to the tune of 20k.

It looks like Biden really put the country into mess.

 

[wing2000]

It looks like Biden really put the country into mess.

The (immigration) "mess "started 40+ years ago...

 

[A New Dawn]

The (immigration) "mess "started 40+ years ago...

And it stayed at a steady low-level increase for years until Biden and his shadow administration invited them to enter illegally with promises of free school, free housing and free food, shooting up the number of illegal crossings exponentially.

 

[wing2000]

And it stayed at a steady low-level increase for years until Biden and his shadow administration invited them to enter illegally with promises of free school, free housing and free food, shooting up the number of illegal crossings exponentially.

Oh, I must have missed the Biden commericial in Honduras adversting free school, housing and food.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

It’s pretty darn convenient to say “I’m not interested in engaging in “whataboutism”” when the deeds are already done and guilty people have gotten off scott free while the other sides toes are being held to the flame with no end in sight. REALLY convenient. But regardless of where you say your loyalties lay, did you or did you not as a citizen of the US and a child of God, raise even a little stink about the Jan. 6ers being held for YEARS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS? I mean, it sounds like you REALLY care NOW that that Trump is in office and you have HIS policies to wail against, but did people who were REALLY being held without due process even faze you, because I’m just seeing convenient outrage here.

As mentioned in my previous post, I am not interested in engaging in whataboutism. However, it appears that rather than addressing the current facts, you have chosen to revert to whataboutism.

Have a blessed day.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

But they are likely wrong. The only authoritarianism we’ve seen is Biden/the persons behind Biden weaponizing the DoJ.

“Some Democrats” are ticked off because Trump was voted into office and they are no longer in power. Even classic liberals like Bill Maher and John Fetterman know there is nothing resembling authoritarianism in this country now, but Biden’s administration was pushing the envelope pretty close.

President Biden is no longer in office, so discussing him is irrelevant. However, I understand the desire to bring him up when it's difficult to defend the actions of the current administration, which can lead to whataboutism instead of addressing present issues.

 

[A New Dawn]

President Biden is no longer in office, so discussing him is irrelevant. However, I understand the desire to bring him up when it's difficult to defend the actions of the current administration, which can lead to whataboutism instead of addressing present issues.

LOL. I have no problem defending the actions of the current administration. It’s fun to compare and contrast though. You know, a treasonous shadow administration vs. the most transparent administration in history.

So I am guessing that no, you felt none of the burning angst that you are feeling for the poor illegals who are NOT being deprived of their due process, for the Jan. 6ers who were deprived of it.

Great to know that you are “not on the left”.

Fake outrage, no more no less.

 

[MrMoe]

I don’t really care. That’s who I’m blaming for everything.

At least you admit your dislike for ICE is based on emotion rather than any rational argument.

 

[MrMoe]

President Biden is no longer in office, so discussing him is irrelevant. However, I understand the desire to bring him up when it's difficult to defend the actions of the current administration, which can lead to whataboutism instead of addressing present issues.

The affects of a president’s actions (or inactions) can linger after they have left office, so discussing them can still be relevant.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

At least you admit your dislike for ICE is based on emotion rather than any rational argument.

Oh I have plenty of reasons. None that I’ll be wasting my time explaining to you, though. Hope you don’t mind.

 

[MrMoe]

Oh I have plenty of reasons. None that I’ll be wasting my time explaining to you, though. Hope you don’t mind.

Why didn’t you give those reasons in our discussion? You could have convinced me and others reading this thread.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Why didn’t you give those reasons in our discussion? You could have convinced me and others reading this thread.

Doubtful, and I’m not interested in convincing anyone of anything.

You either get it or you don’t.

 

[rjs330]

It is indeed a sad day that After 250 years of democracy, some Americans believe it is acceptable for the government to deploy the military door to door to apprehend individuals.

Thats not happening.

 

[rjs330]

If the Trump administration wants to enforce immigration law, they should obtain a court order for each individual,

Thats not required by law. You want the law followed but then make demands that aren't required by law.

it is not an excuse to bypass the law.

I agree, law should be followed. There have been circumstances where a court order wasn't. But we don't shut down the whole process when someone screws up. If that were tge case no officer anywhere would be allowed to make an arrest. They wouldnt be allowed to write tickets without a court order. And of course judges make mistakes too. Sometimes they fail to follow other court decisions or law.

Due process is being done and followed in the vast majority of cases.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Thats not happening.

Would you condemn it if it was happening?

 

[rjs330]

Due process requires a court to issue a warrant. Law enforcement cannot detain someone at places like 7-Eleven, Home Depot, or a tomato farm without a warrant.

That is patently false. That is NOT required. Im not sure where you heard that, but its untrue.

If we claim to be a nation of laws, we cannot break the constitution and justify it with special circumstances. That is what authoritarian regimes do—they make exceptions for certain people and bypass the law.

Its a good thing thats not happening then, except in the rarest of singular circumstance.

 

[rjs330]

Would you condemn it if it was happening?

Yup.