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Of False Witness and Weather Reports

The Barbarian

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But I can understand why the current president wanted to cut the Weather Service. After all, if you're a climate change denier, how can you keep denying when there are so many smart people in the room proving you wrong?
It wouldn't be the first time in history that scientists with the wrong (whatever) were purged. Happens in every authoritarian state.
 
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JustaPewFiller

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A bump to the thread as some more news has came out..



In short, the camp leader did get a warning on his phone around 1:14am. Then conferred with his family and employees on what to do and started evacuations at 2:30am. By then it was too late.

Cell reception is evidently spotty at the camp at best. Also, campers were not allowed to have cell phones and counselors had to keep their phones locked up. So, there were limited people at the camp that could have gotten the warnings due to the camp's policy.
 
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The Barbarian

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The lieutenant governor said there were no sirens, and I accept him at his word, acknowledging some guilt on their part.
It's not going to be one failure or one person on whom we can put all the blame. From the Dept. of Homeland Security on down, there were plenty of failures in the process that led to all these deaths.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I don't know the best place for it. I almost posted this as a reply to a thread outside the Christians only section, then figured it would do no good at all.

The issue is the flash flooding on the Guadeloupe River in Texas that has claimed an number of lives. Supposedly the AP claims that amount of rain wasn't in the forecast, but there's a clue in a rise of 28 feet (8.5 meters) in an hour. You only get something like that from rainfall if there is a flash flood. Flash flooding depends on terrain and condition of the soil. We have occasional flash flooding here, but it's after the ground is saturated and it's due to isolated heavy rainfall. In hilly terrain, the shape of the ground "funnels" rain to lower areas, and you have inches of rain become feet of flash floods.

Maybe because I'm not out West, but I don't think I've ever seen a forecast calling for flash floods. I don't think I've even see a flash flood watch. I've seen flood watches and forecasts warning of a potential of flooding, and I've seen flash flood warnings. The latter is when there's a flash flood right at that instance and get to higher ground immediately.

A check quickly came up with the National Weather Service issuing an "emergency" flash flood warning for the Guadeloupe (I thought all flash flood warnings were emergencies) in the early morning hours of July 4. That was from The Weather Channel and some sources local to the event. That fits with what I've seen ever since we heard of flash flood warnings on radio and TV. Here the warnings just pop up as they happen. Some aren't issues. The rainfall in half an hour that exceeded our range gauge capacity? No flash flood warning. When a creek overflowed a culvert and went over a road? No flash flood warning. But there was in the area of the Guadeloupe. The cite from the AP was that there was no forecast of the amount of rain. Yet there were flash flood warnings.

The claim in the post in the other part of CF is that this is all due to cuts in the NWS. But the tragedy that happened on the Guadeloupe fits what I've seen years ago. That creek that went over the road due to heavy rain? That was back in 2008 or 2009 or 2010. Add to it that the warning came in the early morning hours, and you have people not being aware of it. If you have a weather radio, it has to be set to the right station and it has to pick up the signal to get warnings. Cell phone alerts depend on the tower. Just because you get a warning doesn't mean that it will be picked up. Because there's a warning doesn't mean it will get heard.

A check, though does show that there was a flood watch issued the day before, and later extended to 1 PM Friday, July 4. Here's one link: https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/weather/article/weather-san-antonio-flood-watch-20420566.php

Here's a link to the extension:

https://x.com/NWSSanAntonio/status/1941038559386820616

This doesn't match what is posted in the non-Christians only section and gets to the topic of false witness. If the AP article is correctly cited, then there is no mention of the forecasts cited above. If the issue are budget cuts, then what of the instances I've related where there were no warnings at all? And if these things are known, why not report them?

As I said, I almost posted this in the non-Christian sections and figured it would do absolutely no good at all. All it would do would bring accusations of being a Trump apologist or some sort, even with the cites above. But if we have reason to think information is reported in error, do we have a responsibility to point that out? Or is is such a lost cause that we should say nothing at all.
I actually posted a comment and a link in that thread showing that they were issuing flash flood warnings starting on July 3rd in those areas and it specifically states that the NWS was not understaffed they actually had extra personnel on staff during the storm.

 
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BNR32FAN

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I don't know the best place for it. I almost posted this as a reply to a thread outside the Christians only section, then figured it would do no good at all.

The issue is the flash flooding on the Guadeloupe River in Texas that has claimed an number of lives. Supposedly the AP claims that amount of rain wasn't in the forecast, but there's a clue in a rise of 28 feet (8.5 meters) in an hour. You only get something like that from rainfall if there is a flash flood. Flash flooding depends on terrain and condition of the soil. We have occasional flash flooding here, but it's after the ground is saturated and it's due to isolated heavy rainfall. In hilly terrain, the shape of the ground "funnels" rain to lower areas, and you have inches of rain become feet of flash floods.

Maybe because I'm not out West, but I don't think I've ever seen a forecast calling for flash floods. I don't think I've even see a flash flood watch. I've seen flood watches and forecasts warning of a potential of flooding, and I've seen flash flood warnings. The latter is when there's a flash flood right at that instance and get to higher ground immediately.

A check quickly came up with the National Weather Service issuing an "emergency" flash flood warning for the Guadeloupe (I thought all flash flood warnings were emergencies) in the early morning hours of July 4. That was from The Weather Channel and some sources local to the event. That fits with what I've seen ever since we heard of flash flood warnings on radio and TV. Here the warnings just pop up as they happen. Some aren't issues. The rainfall in half an hour that exceeded our range gauge capacity? No flash flood warning. When a creek overflowed a culvert and went over a road? No flash flood warning. But there was in the area of the Guadeloupe. The cite from the AP was that there was no forecast of the amount of rain. Yet there were flash flood warnings.

The claim in the post in the other part of CF is that this is all due to cuts in the NWS. But the tragedy that happened on the Guadeloupe fits what I've seen years ago. That creek that went over the road due to heavy rain? That was back in 2008 or 2009 or 2010. Add to it that the warning came in the early morning hours, and you have people not being aware of it. If you have a weather radio, it has to be set to the right station and it has to pick up the signal to get warnings. Cell phone alerts depend on the tower. Just because you get a warning doesn't mean that it will be picked up. Because there's a warning doesn't mean it will get heard.

A check, though does show that there was a flood watch issued the day before, and later extended to 1 PM Friday, July 4. Here's one link: https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/weather/article/weather-san-antonio-flood-watch-20420566.php

Here's a link to the extension:

https://x.com/NWSSanAntonio/status/1941038559386820616

This doesn't match what is posted in the non-Christians only section and gets to the topic of false witness. If the AP article is correctly cited, then there is no mention of the forecasts cited above. If the issue are budget cuts, then what of the instances I've related where there were no warnings at all? And if these things are known, why not report them?

As I said, I almost posted this in the non-Christian sections and figured it would do absolutely no good at all. All it would do would bring accusations of being a Trump apologist or some sort, even with the cites above. But if we have reason to think information is reported in error, do we have a responsibility to point that out? Or is is such a lost cause that we should say nothing at all.
For me if I see someone posting an error I just post the evidence that corrects the error.
 
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