The rise of Democratic Socialism

[Ophiolite]

Isn't there a proverb that you have to fight fire with fire?

The response:

No

Well, actually, it is a proverb. Either you already know this and you are dissembling, or you do not know, which suggests your posts may be poorly informed. Either way it's not a good look. What am I missing?

 

[Always in His Presence]

The response:

Well, actually, it is a proverb. Either you already know this and you are dissembling, or you do not know, which suggests your posts may be poorly informed. Either way it's not a good look. What am I missing?

No - it is an idiom:

The idiom “fight fire with fire” has both literal and metaphorical origins. While it began as a practical firefighting technique used by early American settlers, it also found its way into literary usage through Shakespeare. Over time, the phrase has been adopted into common usage to describe responding to aggression or challenges with similar tactics. Source: theidioms.com​

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I am not the one poorly informed in this instance.

 

[Ophiolite]

No - it is an idiom:

The idiom “fight fire with fire” has both literal and metaphorical origins. While it began as a practical firefighting technique used by early American settlers, it also found its way into literary usage through Shakespeare. Over time, the phrase has been adopted into common usage to describe responding to aggression or challenges with similar tactics. Source: theidioms.com​

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I am not the one poorly informed in this instance.

An internet search will reveal it described as proverb, idiom, saying, etc. I accept all of these terms as valid. Odd that you should be so particular. I'm happy with the American Heritage definition of a proverb: A short pithy saying in frequent and widespread use that expresses a basic truth or practical precept. "Fight fire with fire", fits that perfectly. Perhaps you wish to restrict the use of proverb to those to found in Proverbs.

 

[Always in His Presence]

An internet search will reveal it described as proverb, idiom, saying, etc. I accept all of these terms as valid

Then why are you complaining and attempting a sophomoric style insult that I am poorly informed?

 

[Fantine]

Wisdom comes from many sources, and no matter where the proverb comes from I believe it is valid in this case.

 

[Ophiolite]

Then why are you complaining and attempting a sophomoric style insult that I am poorly informed?

Where is the insult? I described how your post - an abrupt "No" to @Fantine's post - being inaccurate gave a negative impression and asked you "what am I missing". It's the reverse of an insult. I alerted you too a possible problem with your post and asked you tell me where I was wrong. I'm sorry if my clumsy writing failed to convey that.

That said, you then doubled down on the declaration that "fighting fire with fire" was not a proverb, which just leaves me confused. I'll seek not to trouble you again.

 

[trophy33]

Federal housing is being transformed and shifted to the private sector. This the response to the outcry concerning public housing. You can’t force a developer to build affordable housing that isn’t using government money for the project. States don’t have endless pockets or an ability to print money. They have to work within their budget. Some do better than others. Massachusetts is a good example.

~bella

I do not know why are your governments (local, federal) still so poor when it is about solving some social issues, while you are said to be the wealthiest country in the world. How is it possible that other countries have enough of social housing or have legal system (like the EU) that supports it?

 

[BCP1928]

I do not know why are your governments (local, federal) still so poor when it is about solving some social issues, while you are said to be the wealthiest country in the world. How is it possible that other countries have enough of social housing or have legal system (like the EU) that supports it?

Because we have had Neoliberal governments for some years now. Neoliberals don't like giving their hard-earned tax dollars to benefit greedy lazy poor people who won't work hard to get ahead. As it stands now, the market for single family homes is increasingly dominated by large real estate investment firms, which helps raise housing prices across the board such that it makes even renting difficult for the low income families. It's all part of the larger program of commodifying the working class.

 

[bèlla]

I do not know why are your governments (local, federal) still so poor when it is about solving some social issues, while you are said to be the wealthiest country in the world. How is it possible that other countries have enough of social housing or have legal system (like the EU) that supports it?

It isn’t a fair comparison when you consider the differences in size. We‘re the third largest country in the world and a desirable location for refugees and immigrants. The majority aren’t supporting a population that large or dealing with the influx of people trying to get in.

Our taxes are significantly lower too. The comparison shown on this site is based on our highest rate for personal income tax. But most households are paying between 12-32%. We keep more of our income and benefits are offered through employers at a discount. And it’s doubly sweet for business owners. Our taxes can be less than employees and the legal protections are greater.

Since our health care isn’t nationalized we have access to more specialists and services without the wait or red tape others face. I would rather retain more income and pay for the services I want than have universal care. And the countries that offer it still have private options for the reasons stated.

We don’t want a one size fits all solution and if the government attempts it the people with means will leave much like we’re witnessing with the UK. While socialism works in other places it will have an adverse effect on America. The majority are against it.

~bella

 

[BCP1928]

It isn’t a fair comparison when you consider the differences in size. We‘re the third largest country in the world and a desirable location for refugees and immigrants. The majority aren’t supporting a population that large or dealing with the influx of people trying to get in.

Our taxes are significantly lower too. The comparison shown on this site is based on our highest rate for personal income tax. But most households are paying between 12-32%. We keep more of our income and benefits are offered through employers at a discount. And it’s doubly sweet for business owners. Our taxes can be less than employees and the legal protections are greater.

And it makes the worker depend on his employer rather than the government for such beneifits. That way the worker can be made to be grateful for even a crappy job.

Since our health care isn’t nationalized we have access to more specialists and services without the wait or red tape others face. I would rather retain more income and pay for the services I want than have universal care. And the countries that offer it still have private options for the reasons stated.

Of course, and it has the added benefit of making health care more difficult to get for those without corporate employers. It's a win-win.

We don’t want a one size fits all solution and if the government attempts it the people with means will leave much like we’re witnessing with the UK. While socialism works in other places it will have an adverse effect on America. The majority are against it.

~bella

Only when you call it "socialism"

 

[bèlla]

And it makes the worker depend on his employer rather than the government for such beneifits. That way the worker can be made to be grateful for even a crappy job.

Of course, and it has the added benefit of making health care more difficult to get for those without corporate employers. It's a win-win.

If that’s the life you want it’s available elsewhere. That’s where the argument ends. No one‘s preventing anyone from living in a society that offers those benefits. And if you want it you’ll do what it takes to get there. Start a business, improve your skills, find a job with a global company, etc.

That’s what you do when you’re serious about improving your quality of life. You don’t sit around complaining. If you can’t get it at home you do what‘s required to go elsewhere and it’s never been easier. Blaming Americans is a copout.

~bella

 

[wing2000]

This thread is not a GOP thing - and most of the Middle Class has their 401k in major corporations and their retirement is based on investor returns.

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Well that's great for those of us who were able to afford our first home 20-40 years ago and have 401k plans. That is not "most of the middle" class.

The fact is, if we don't have viable solutions for the younger generations, they will turn to other political solutions to address their needs.

 

[trophy33]

It isn’t a fair comparison when you consider the differences in size. We‘re the third largest country in the world and a desirable location for refugees and immigrants.

The EU has more people than the USA. If you are talking about area being large, then I am not sure how is it related to housing. Housing should be cheaper and more affordable in countries with a lot of space, if anything.

 

[BCP1928]

If that’s the life you want it’s available elsewhere. That’s where the argument ends. No one‘s preventing anyone from living in a society that offers those benefits. And if you want it you’ll do what it takes to get there. Start a business, improve your skills, find a job with a global company, etc.

That’s what you do when you’re serious about improving your quality of life. You don’t sit around complaining. If you can’t get it at home you do what‘s required to go elsewhere and it’s never been easier. Blaming Americans is a copout.

~bella

I'm not blaming America. Let me remind you that you don't own America and you don't get to unilaterally define American values--or the technical terms of political science. I am an American and it is my right to press for a return to the free market capitalism of our better times. If you don't like that maybe you should be the one to move to another country.

 

[bèlla]

The EU has more people than the USA. If you are talking about area being large, then I am not sure how is it related to housing. Housing should be cheaper and more affordable in countries with a lot of space, if anything.

The EU is a coalition of nations there’s a difference. We want smaller government and less taxes. Not more taxes for inclusion. No one wants to spend 40% or more of their income to cover everyone.

~bella

 

[trophy33]

The EU is a coalition of nations there’s a difference.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Federal states should have such legislation even easier than a union of nations. But the EU still managed to do it.

We want smaller government and less taxes. Not more taxes for inclusion. No one wants to spend 40% or more of their income to cover everyone.

"We" and "no one" is just your personal opinion. A lot of people in the USA are fed up with the US system based on corporatism and on the survival of the fittest. It is so 19th century.

 

[bèlla]

I'm not blaming America. Let me remind you that you don't own America and you don't get to unilaterally define American values--or the technical terms of political science. I am an American and it is my right to press for a return to the free market capitalism of our better times. If you don't like that maybe you should be the one to move to another country.

I’m not complaining nor am I the lone citizen that feels the same. And I stand by my comment. If you can’t change legislation and it‘s a priority other options exist. That’s a fact.

~bella

 

[bèlla]

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Federal states should have such legislation even easier than a union of nations. But the EU still managed to do it.

We’re not getting socialized care without expenses increasing across the board. They won’t make the wealthy fund it.

"We" and "no one" is just your personal opinion. A lot of people in the USA are fed up with the US system based on corporatism and on the survival of the fittest. It is so 19th century.

Then they should stop electing officials who serve the needs of other groups above their own. I’m not deceived about our politicians nor do I believe a thing they say. I know who they serve.

~bella

 

[BCP1928]

We’re not getting socialized care without expenses increasing across the board. They won’t make the wealthy fund it.

If you actually look at real numbers you find that it is cheaper, not least because it cuts insurance company profits out of the loop. And that is the real reason that Real True Patriots are suppose to oppose it

Then they should stop electing officials who serve the needs of other groups above their own. I’m not deceived about our politicians nor do I believe a thing they say. I know who they serve.

~bella

Which is presumably why you elected Trump, who serves the need of your group.

 

[BCP1928]

I’m not complaining nor am I the lone citizen that feels the same. And I stand by my comment. If you can’t change legislation and it‘s a priority other options exist. That’s a fact.

~bella

One option is to elect officials who rule by fiat rather than through the legislatures. All authoritarian economic systems, both on the left and on the right, will wind up there.