If universalism is true then why did God send His Son to die for our sins?

[Hentenza]

One of the most famous verses known by Christians, agnostics, and even atheists is John 3:16.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

If universalism is true and all will be saved “after an age” then why did God sent His Son to die for the sins of those who believe? Why would the Bible spend so much ink teaching us that faith is necessary for salvation?

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

bible.com

 

[caffeinated.hermit]

Well... I would posit that Christ, His death and resurrection, and our faith in and love for Him saves us. And His love for us. I'm not exactly dogmatic about Universalism, but I do hope that all people will get the chance to trust in Christ at some point, maybe at the last moment of life or in between life and death. So maybe, faith in Christ is the *how* of how God, the Triune God, will draw everyone to Himself and save us. It's still needed, but everyone will (hopefully) get the chance.

 

[Hentenza]

Well... I would posit that Christ, His death and resurrection, and our faith in and love for Him saves us. And His love for us. I'm not exactly dogmatic about Universalism, but I do hope that all people will get the chance to trust in Christ at some point, maybe at the last moment of life or in between life and death. So maybe, faith in Christ is the *how* of how God, the Triune God, will draw everyone to Himself and save us. It's still needed, but everyone will (hopefully) get the chance.

Thanks. I truly hope that all will come to Christ however some will not for their own evil desires and wickedness. How about those? Will those be saved?

““Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they pulled it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭47‬-‭50‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 13:47-50 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they pulled it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the g | New American Standard Bible -

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they pulled it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the g

bible.com

 

[Gregory Thompson]

One of the most famous verses known by Christians, agnostics, and even atheists is John 3:16.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

If universalism is true and all will be saved “after an age” then why did God sent His Son to die for the sins of those who believe? Why would the Bible spend so much ink teaching us that faith is necessary for salvation?

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

bible.com

It's really difficult to determine the mindset back then because of verses like this one:

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)

Today it is common to labour for the gospel due to fear that everyone is going to hell.

The mindset in the early church was to labour and suffer reproach because of Trust in God who is the Savior of all mankind.

because of passages like these illustrating a stark difference in attitude, I doubt it is possible to accurately answer your question: "If universalism is true then why did God send His Son to die for our sins?"

Another reason why the question would be difficult to answer would be "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:9)

In general Universalism, Annihilationism, and Eternal Torment all have scriptural issues that "cannot explain said scripture verse away."

The only thing I noticed in your question was that in general, the overall attitude of the church is entirely unlike the early church in this manner. As it is common today to teach the gospel out of fear instead of hope.

 

[caffeinated.hermit]

Thanks. I truly hope that all will come to Christ however some will not for their own evil desires and wickedness. How about those? Will those be saved?

Well, that's a good question, and yeah, that's why I don't fully insist that 100% everyone is going to be saved, because Scripture seems to indicate that some will *not* be willing, even if given the opportunity. I think... the folks who wind up in Hell are there because they ultimately chose the misery of their own will over the God who loves them. They had the chance, they still turned away and ran in the other direction. That doesn't mean the door wasn't open to them or that all was lost, just that they chose to seal themselves off from God's mercy and grace.

The idea, I think, is that we never do that. We never tell Jesus "get lost", at least, not at the last moment. Either "Get lost, I don't need you" or "Get lost, there's no hope for me". That's, perhaps, the one thing that seals it for us. No matter how screwed up or hopeless we seem, we can and should always have hope.

 

[d taylor]

One of the most famous verses known by Christians, agnostics, and even atheists is John 3:16.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

If universalism is true and all will be saved “after an age” then why did God sent His Son to die for the sins of those who believe? Why would the Bible spend so much ink teaching us that faith is necessary for salvation?

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

bible.com

-
​

Jesus died for all sin, of every person ever born. Sin is not what causes a person to eventually end up in the lake of fire for eternity.

A person ends up in the lake of fire because they never believed in Jesus and had their name recorded in the book of life.

 

[Hentenza]

-
​

Jesus died for all sin, of every person ever born. Sin is not what causes a person to eventually end up in the lake of fire for eternity.

A person ends up in the lake of fire because they never believed in Jesus and had their name recorded in the book of life.

“So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous,”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭49‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 13:49 So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous

bible.com

Are the wicked sinless?

 

[d taylor]

“So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous,”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13‬:‭49‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 13:49 So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

So it will be at the end of the age: the angels will come forth and remove the wicked from among the righteous

bible.com

Are the wicked sinless?

-
​

These people are wicked because they are not a believer.

​

I did not say people stop being sinful. But a person sin is not the reason they are sent to the lake of fire. Their sin debt has been paid for by Jesus.

Either Jesus paid for all sin or no sin. Jesus did not become just some sin, Jesus became sin

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
-----------------------------------------
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
-----------------------------------------
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

 

[Clare73]

-​

Jesus died for all sin, of every person ever born.

Were the OT animal sacrifices for every person born, or only for the people of God?

Sin is not what causes a person to eventually end up in the lake of fire for eternity.

A person ends up in the lake of fire because they never believed in Jesus and had their name recorded in the book of life.

 

[d taylor]

Were the OT animal sacrifices for every person born, or only for the people of God?

-
​

Was Jesus a far superior sacrifice to the Jewish sacrificial system under the Law. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

 

[PloverWing]

If universalism is true and all will be saved “after an age” then why did God sent His Son to die for the sins of those who believe?

The idea in Christian universalism is that it's the work of Jesus that saves everyone -- so God sent his Son to save the world.

The debate is over whether the work of Jesus was sufficient to save all, or just some.

 

[Clare73]

-
​

Was Jesus a far superior sacrifice to the Jewish sacrificial system under the Law. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

It's not about the "superiority" of Jesus' sacrifice over the animal sacrifices, which lay in the perfection of its divinity, it's about its applicability.

The OT sacrifices applied only to the people of God.

 

[Hentenza]

The idea in Christian universalism is that it's the work of Jesus that saves everyone -- so God sent his Son to save the world.

The debate is over whether the work of Jesus was sufficient to save all, or just some.

Why should I even follow Jesus and continue sinning at will if at the end it does not matter since I will be saved anyway?

 

[d taylor]

It's not about the "superiority" of Jesus' sacrifice over the animal sacrifices, which lay in the perfection of its divinity, it's about its applicability.

The OT sacrifices applied only to the people of God.

-

​

So they were for the the Jewish people.
That is why they were far from being complete. But as The Bible states Jesus sacrifice was far superior and had to be done only once and took away the sin of the world. The curtain was torn and sin stopped being a barrier between God and man.

Every person has access to eternal life and God through belief in Jesus. That is why Jesus is the savior of the world any human can have God's free gift of Eternal Life, all they have to do is believe in Jesus. They do not have to offer another sacrifice, repent from sin, confess their sins, etc.......

Jesus is not just the savior of Jewish people, if you have gotten that from The Bible then you have a great misunderstanding in your theology.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

One of the most famous verses known by Christians, agnostics, and even atheists is John 3:16.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

If universalism is true and all will be saved “after an age” then why did God sent His Son to die for the sins of those who believe? Why would the Bible spend so much ink teaching us that faith is necessary for salvation?

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

bible.com

We should define " love" first. Universalism has a " hyper love" view of God rather than a " divine love" as described in scripture. God sent Himself in the flesh, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. He spread His Divine Love to all by preaching His Gospel and whosoever believes in Him shall not perish and receive His Holy Spirit. It is not possible to find this flesh driven " hyper love" in scripture which is why it would be impossible to imagine Universalism to be true.
Blessings

 

[Clare73]

Jesus is not just the savior of Jewish people, if you have gotten that from The Bible then you have a great misunderstanding in your theology.​

As would you. . .

 

[PloverWing]

Why should I even follow Jesus and continue sinning at will if at the end it does not matter since I will be saved anyway?

Do the good because it is the good. Avoid evil because it is evil.

 

[Hentenza]

Do the good because it is the good. Avoid evil because it is evil.

Why? I’m going to be saved no matter what I do.

 

[caffeinated.hermit]

Why? I’m going to be saved no matter what I do.

So... this is kind of where I feel like Purgatory / a purgative state kind of makes sense. Something along the lines of Matthew 5:25-26 and Luke 12:47-48. There's still punishment, but it doesn't necessarily last forever in all cases. And depends on what you knew to do or to not do. I'm just guessing, but that is what makes sense to me. +

 

[Hentenza]

So... this is kind of where I feel like Purgatory / a purgative state kind of makes sense. Something along the lines of Matthew 5:25-26 and Luke 12:47-48. There's still punishment, but it doesn't necessarily last forever in all cases. And depends on what you knew to do or to not do. I'm just guessing, but that is what makes sense to me. +

In Catholic teachings those that go to purgatory are those who die in God’s grace and just need additional cleansing. No unbelivers are included.