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Trump says Israel, Iran agree to 'Complete and Total CEASEFIRE': Live updates

Ivan Hlavanda

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Nithavela

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BBC reports it now also.
Thank you! Please don't take my scepticism as personal.

No surprise here. I don't even blame Trump for that, the two countries had a chance to end this and Iran chose not to. So the war continues.

Man, stopping wars is HARD, isn't it? Maybe something to consider before you start or join one.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I follow Amir Tsarfati on Telegram. He lives in Israel and posts updates on what's happening.

They had 12 hours to cease any ongoing operations that were already ongoing.

After the 12 hours is up, see if they stop... We were allowing for some things that couldn't be stopped prior to the windows closing due to disruptions in communication etc.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Thank you! Please don't take my scepticism as personal.
No offence taken. I follow Amir Tsarfati, because he posts live updates from Israel, and it takes minutes for our media to pick up.


No surprise here. I don't even blame Trump for that, the two countries had a chance to end this and Iran chose not to. So the war continues.

Man, stopping wars is HARD, isn't it? Maybe something to consider before you start or join one
I had a feeling the ceasefire would not happen once Iran launched missiles towards Israel one hour before the start of the ceasefire
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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They had 12 hours to cease any ongoing operations that were already ongoing.

After the 12 hours is up, see if they stop... We were allowing for some things that couldn't be stopped prior to the windows closing.
So why did they launch missiles once the ceasefire started?

Let's see what happens throughout the day.
 
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Ivan Hlavanda

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Your not understanding the wording.

After noon today on the Eastern seaboard in the United States (Washington time) is when the ceasefire starts.

It didn't start yesterday. The ceasefire has not started yet.

Communications are down in Iran, and communicating between the government and military is patchy, they needed time to even communicate a ceasefire to their own people - which meant there were ongoing operations that couldn't be stopped prior to the actual start of the ceasefire - which is at noon I think.

Give them time.
Early on Tuesday morning, US President Donald Trump declared: "The ceasefire is now in effect. Please do not violate it!"


The message on Truth Social followed a series of posts on Monday, in which the president declared that a "complete and total ceasefire" had been agreed upon between the two countries and would begin at approximately 5am UK time.
- this was over 4 hours ago.

So which one is it?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Early on Tuesday morning, US President Donald Trump declared: "The ceasefire is now in effect. Please do not violate it!"


The message on Truth Social followed a series of posts on Monday, in which the president declared that a "complete and total ceasefire" had been agreed upon between the two countries and would begin at approximately 5am UK time.
- this was over 4 hours ago.

So which one is it?


I'm sorry I have retracted my posts your correct.

War is still on, any ceasefire is fully collapsed. I probably shouldn't talk before coffee. I apologize.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Guess "peace through strength" just needs some more strength to work...

We didn't bomb Irans nuclear facilities to assist with the current Israel/Iran conflict, though it would have been a cool bonus, but only to remove their nuclear weapons capabilities.

We were specific in that.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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We didn't bomb Irans nuclear facilities to assist with the current Israel/Iran conflict, though it would have been a cool bonus, but only to remove their nuclear weapons capabilities.

We were specific in that.

........... I'm just leafing through my own copy of the Quran, trying to find some surah that touches on the importance of having "peace" with what it considers to be infidels.

My thumb is getting a small blister in the process.
 
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FireDragon76

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........... I'm just leafing through my own copy of the Quran, trying to find some surah that touches on the importance of having "peace" with what it considers to be infidels.

My thumb is getting a small blister in the process.

It depends on ones hermeneutics. Critical hermeneutics in Islam of the Quran is a relatively new thing, most Muslims historically were not interested in studying the Quran in its historical context, instead relying upon tradition, as is the case in many traditional societies in the region. Especially after the collapse of the Islamic golden age in the middle ages; mainstream Islamic jurisprudence rejected what we'ld think of as reason and intuitive judgement, for the most part, in matters of religion, though at one time they played greater roles in Islamic thought (this is also the time period where mainstream Islamic thought decidedly rejected the notion that Jesus was crucified and died, though they affirm, along with Christians, that he is the Messiah).

The main context of the Quran is resistance to paganism, but it also has critiques of Christian theology. That isn't necessarily outright condemnation, however. An ambivalent attitude might be the best way to sum up the Quran's attitude to Christians, hence the widely different responses to Christians by Muslims. More mystical streams of Islam tend to have a more favorable attitudes, than ones based on strict juridical interpretation.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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It depends on ones hermeneutics. Critical hermeneutics in Islam of the Quran is a relatively new thing, most Muslims historically were not interested in studying the Quran in its historical context, instead relying upon tradition, as is the case in many traditional societies in the region. Especially after the collapse of the Islamic golden age in the middle ages; mainstream Islamic jurisprudence rejected what we'ld think of as reason and intuitive judgement, for the most part, in matters of religion, though at one time they played greater roles in Islamic thought (this is also the time period where mainstream Islamic thought decidedly rejected the notion that Jesus was crucified and died, though they affirm, along with Christians, that he is the Messiah).

The main context of the Quran is resistance to paganism, but it also has critiques of Christian theology. That isn't necessarily outright condemnation, however. An ambivalent attitude might be the best way to sum up the Quran's attitude to Christians, hence the widely different responses to Christians by Muslims. More mystical streams of Islam tend to have a more favorable attitudes, than ones based on strict juridical interpretation.

Yes, I'm aware of all of that. Thanks for the summary.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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It depends on ones hermeneutics. Critical hermeneutics in Islam of the Quran is a relatively new thing, most Muslims historically were not interested in studying the Quran in its historical context, instead relying upon tradition, as is the case in many traditional societies in the region. Especially after the collapse of the Islamic golden age in the middle ages; mainstream Islamic jurisprudence rejected what we'ld think of as reason and intuitive judgement, for the most part, in matters of religion, though at one time they played greater roles in Islamic thought (this is also the time period where mainstream Islamic thought decidedly rejected the notion that Jesus was crucified and died, though they affirm, along with Christians, that he is the Messiah).

The main context of the Quran is resistance to paganism, but it also has critiques of Christian theology. That isn't necessarily outright condemnation, however. An ambivalent attitude might be the best way to sum up the Quran's attitude to Christians, hence the widely different responses to Christians by Muslims. More mystical streams of Islam tend to have a more favorable attitudes, than ones based on strict juridical interpretation.

Also, I've read and studied the Qur'an from cover to cover nearly three decades ago, as well as studying its developing place in World History and Religion since the 7th century.

Despite the 'various' positions Muslims might take on their specific religion and their holy book(S), I don't hold out much hope for their ability to apply Critical Thinking and Reality if they lean toward fundamentalism.
 
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Nithavela

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It's called tough love.
We didn't bomb Irans nuclear facilities to assist with the current Israel/Iran conflict, though it would have been a cool bonus, but only to remove their nuclear weapons capabilities.

We were specific in that.
Maybe you two should hash this out among yourself. Perhaps get @Landon Caeli into the mix.
 
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ozso

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Maybe you two should hash this among yourself.
I was being facetious.

That said, I'm really sorry for not being woke enough fret over volatile extremists having their nuclear weapons facilities wiped out.
 
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