Ultra Dispensationalism and Right Division

[timf]

As much reviled as regular dispensationalism is becoming, What has been called ultra dispensationalism is even more so. The term "right division" has been used to describe this view that takes dispensationalism even further.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Most dispensationalists see the Christian church starting in Acts 2. Most right dividers see it starting mid-acts with the calling of the apostle Paul. Early right dividers, like bullinger and Stam, even considered Acts 28 a line of demarcation. It might be better to consider an overlap where the gospel of grace that was given to Paul to dispense to the gentiles overlapped with the possibility that the nation of Israel could have to accept the gospel of the kingdom.

Being able to see two gospels, the national gospel of the kingdom for Israel distinct from the individual gospel of grace for the gentiles, is a useful way to resolve many of the problems of trying to see ourselves in the gospels or old testament.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

 

[Guojing]

Being able to see two gospels, the national gospel of the kingdom for Israel distinct from the individual gospel of grace for the gentiles, is a useful way to resolve many of the problems of trying to see ourselves in the gospels or old testament.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

That is true, scripture is so much easier to be understood, in their literal meaning, once one can see 2 gospels.

 

[Aristarkos]

As much reviled as regular dispensationalism is becoming, What has been called ultra dispensationalism is even more so. The term "right division" has been used to describe this view that takes dispensationalism even further.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Most dispensationalists see the Christian church starting in Acts 2. Most right dividers see it starting mid-acts with the calling of the apostle Paul. Early right dividers, like bullinger and Stam, even considered Acts 28 a line of demarcation. It might be better to consider an overlap where the gospel of grace that was given to Paul to dispense to the gentiles overlapped with the possibility that the nation of Israel could have to accept the gospel of the kingdom.

Being able to see two gospels, the national gospel of the kingdom for Israel distinct from the individual gospel of grace for the gentiles, is a useful way to resolve many of the problems of trying to see ourselves in the gospels or old testament.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Funny al the "names" that are invented for something that is in Scripture and doesn't come from anyone's imagination. Dispensations are named in Scripture — no, not all are, I'm aware of that — so the discussion whether they do or do not exist is futile. The dispensation of the fulness of times (Eph. 1:10) is named literally as is the dispensation of the mystery (Eph. 3:9).

There are way more gospels named in Scripture as well, not just the two you mention above:

1. The Gospel of the Kingdom, Mat. 4:23; 9:35; 24:14
2. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mark 1:1
3. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God, Mark 1:14
4. The Gospel of the uncircumcision, Gal. 2:7
5. The Gospel of the circumcision, Gal. 2:7
6. The Gospel of the Grace of God, Acts 20:24
7. The Gospel of God, Rom. 1:1; 15:16; 2 Cor. 11:7; 1 Thess. 2:2, 8, 9; 1 Pet. 4:17
8. The gospel of his Son, Rom. 1:9
9. The gospel of the blessed God, 1 Tim. 1:11
10. The gospel of Christ, Rom. 15:19; 1 Cor. 9:12; 2 Cor. 2:12; 9:13; 10:14; Gal. 1:7
11. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, 2 Thess. 1:8
12. The glorious gospel of Christ, 2 Cor. 4:4
13. The gospel of your salvation, Eph. 1:13
14. The gospel of peace, Eph. 6:15
15. My Gospel, Rom. 2:16, 16:25, 2 Tim. 2:8
16. Another (of a different kind) Gospel, that is no other, Gal. 1:8
17. The everlasting gospel, Rev. 14:6

So Scripture is simplified to satisfy human ignorance, while it is actually quite complicated. Most say there is just one gospel and they use Gal. 1:8 all the time to silence the opposition. You say there are two, yet God says in His Scripture there are at least 17. We know from Scripture that the words used are carefully chosen: Psa. 12:7 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.". Therefor, simplifying Scripture is never useful and doesn't solve anything at all.

Aristarkos

 

[timf]

One has to be careful with a phrase like gospel (good news) for the women who was searching for her penny, it was good news she was telling her friends about when she found it. One might consider "good news" (gospel) to be more of an adjective. than a noun.

 

[Dan Perez]

As much reviled as regular dispensationalism is becoming, What has been called ultra dispensationalism is even more so. The term "right division" has been used to describe this view that takes dispensationalism even further.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Most dispensationalists see the Christian church starting in Acts 2. Most right dividers see it starting mid-acts with the calling of the apostle Paul. Early right dividers, like bullinger and Stam, even considered Acts 28 a line of demarcation. It might be better to consider an overlap where the gospel of grace that was given to Paul to dispense to the gentiles overlapped with the possibility that the nation of Israel could have to accept the gospel of the kingdom.

Being able to see two gospels, the national gospel of the kingdom for Israel distinct from the individual gospel of grace for the gentiles, is a useful way to resolve many of the problems of trying to see ourselves in the gospels or old testament.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

And there are many like me that call them self Dispensationalist and and have yet to meet and ULTRA -Dispensationalist that

can show when and how Saul / Paul was saved ,

And we did have an ULTRA and he has left , when I asked him how Saul / Paul was saved .

And Just asking as to why you brought this subject up and are you an ULRA ??

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Funny al the "names" that are invented for something that is in Scripture and doesn't come from anyone's imagination. Dispensations are named in Scripture — no, not all are, I'm aware of that — so the discussion whether they do or do not exist is futile. The dispensation of the fulness of times (Eph. 1:10) is named literally as is the dispensation of the mystery (Eph. 3:9).

There are way more gospels named in Scripture as well, not just the two you mention above:

1. The Gospel of the Kingdom, Mat. 4:23; 9:35; 24:14
2. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, Mark 1:1
3. The Gospel of the Kingdom of God, Mark 1:14
4. The Gospel of the uncircumcision, Gal. 2:7
5. The Gospel of the circumcision, Gal. 2:7
6. The Gospel of the Grace of God, Acts 20:24
7. The Gospel of God, Rom. 1:1; 15:16; 2 Cor. 11:7; 1 Thess. 2:2, 8, 9; 1 Pet. 4:17
8. The gospel of his Son, Rom. 1:9
9. The gospel of the blessed God, 1 Tim. 1:11
10. The gospel of Christ, Rom. 15:19; 1 Cor. 9:12; 2 Cor. 2:12; 9:13; 10:14; Gal. 1:7
11. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, 2 Thess. 1:8
12. The glorious gospel of Christ, 2 Cor. 4:4
13. The gospel of your salvation, Eph. 1:13
14. The gospel of peace, Eph. 6:15
15. My Gospel, Rom. 2:16, 16:25, 2 Tim. 2:8
16. Another (of a different kind) Gospel, that is no other, Gal. 1:8
17. The everlasting gospel, Rev. 14:6

So Scripture is simplified to satisfy human ignorance, while it is actually quite complicated. Most say there is just one gospel and they use Gal. 1:8 all the time to silence the opposition. You say there are two, yet God says in His Scripture there are at least 17. We know from Scripture that the words used are carefully chosen: Psa. 12:7 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.". Therefor, simplifying Scripture is never useful and doesn't solve anything at all.

Aristarkos

AND you have 17 points concerning the word Gospel and you can do the same with the word LAW .

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

And there are many like me that call them self Dispensationalist and and have yet to meet and ULTRA -Dispensationalist that

can show when and how Saul / Paul was saved ,

And we did have an ULTRA and he has left , when I asked him how Saul / Paul was saved .

And Just asking as to why you brought this subject up and are you an ULRA ??

dan p

And at one time we had and ACTS 2 , Acts 9 , and Acts 11 and Acts 13 and two Ultra Acts 28 , what a mix , but the

preacher was Act 9 .

dan p

 

[timf]

Salvation is by faith in Jesus as the Messiah for those of Israel. Salvation is by faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus for the payment of sin for gentiles. Those saved by the kingdom gospel and endure to the end can look forward to a resurrection unto life. Those saved by the gospel of grace are placed by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ and can look forward to always being with the Lord.

Paul was saved on the road to Damascus. This was the first salvation by grace, but it would be years before Paul understood that distinction. He was uniquely qualified to explain the Old Testament prophecies to show that Jesus was the Messiah because he had studied at the feet of Gamaliel.
Paul's ministry in Damascus and Antioch may have been to Jews, Hellenized Jews, ad even some gentiles attracted to the kingdom gospel.

Since water baptism and repentance were required for Jews with the kingdom gospel, Paul seems to have discontinued water baptisms after he arrived in Corinth.

 

[ozso]

This is where 2 Timothy 2:15 gets interpreted as chop the New Testament in half.

 

[Aristarkos]

AND you have 17 points concerning the word Gospel and you can do the same with the word LAW .

dan p

AND you just made another reply I don't know what to do with.

Aristarkos

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

AND you just made another reply I don't know what to do with.

Aristarkos

I think he is linking you with SDA teachings on many definitions of "law"

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

The fact that Paul preached primarily to Gentiles and Peter preached primarily to Jews does not indicate there are two gospels.

 

[Aristarkos]

I think he is linking you with SDA teachings on many definitions of "law"

Assumptions are the mother of all foul ups... Dan does that a lot... He assumes I'm the enemy since he assumes I said something I didn't say...

Aristarkos

 

[Guojing]

The fact that Paul preached primarily to Gentiles and Peter preached primarily to Jews does not indicate there are two gospels.

How would you understand Acts 21:18-25 then?

 

[Dan Perez]

Salvation is by faith in Jesus as the Messiah for those of Israel. Salvation is by faith in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus for the payment of sin for gentiles. Those saved by the kingdom gospel and endure to the end can look forward to a resurrection unto life. Those saved by the gospel of grace are placed by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ and can look forward to always being with the Lord.

Paul was saved on the road to Damascus. This was the first salvation by grace, but it would be years before Paul understood that distinction. He was uniquely qualified to explain the Old Testament prophecies to show that Jesus was the Messiah because he had studied at the feet of Gamaliel.
Paul's ministry in Damascus and Antioch may have been to Jews, Hellenized Jews, ad even some gentiles attracted to the kingdom gospel.

Since water baptism and repentance were required for Jews with the kingdom gospel, Paul seems to have discontinued water baptisms after he arrived in Corinth.

And just curious and just asking as how you prove how Saul / Paul was the first one saved ?

danp

 

[timf]

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Chief = prōtos
Contracted superlative of G4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance): - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all), former.

 

[Aristarkos]

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Chief = prōtos
Contracted superlative of G4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance): - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all), former.

Paul was the chief sinner, because he persecuted the Church of God.

1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

He for sure wasn't the first to be saved, just read the O.T., Abraham for example.

Aristarkos

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

How would you understand Acts 21:18-25 then?

It was the beginning of the end for Paul. He did what they said, was arrested, went to prison, and died as a prisoner in Rome (if I remember correctly).

 

[timf]

Paul was the first one saved by the gospel of grace.

 

[Guojing]

It was the beginning of the end for Paul. He did what they said, was arrested, went to prison, and died as a prisoner in Rome (if I remember correctly).

Does it literally says that Jews who believed have to follow the Law, while gentiles who believed do not, save those 4 common sense rules?