"Most Holy Theotokos, save us"

[Dorothea]

no, it’s done after Vespers. but I have seen it done at the end of Byzantine liturgies.

I personally don’t like changes like that to the services, but that’s the bishop’s call. I have enough to worry about as a knucklehead of a priest.

It wasn't at the end the liturgies for us in the Greek Church. It was in the litany of prayers at this part:

"Remembering our all-holy, immaculate,

most blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos

and ever-virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us

commend ourselves and one another and our

whole life to Christ our God."

We would chant "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" while that verse was being chanted.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It wasn't at the end the liturgies for us in the Greek Church. It was in the litany of prayers at this part:

"Remembering our all-holy, immaculate,

most blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos

and ever-virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us

commend ourselves and one another and our

whole life to Christ our God."

We would chant "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" while that verse was being chanted.

ah, gotcha. I have seen that too in Greek parishes mostly.

 

[RileyG]

It wasn't at the end the liturgies for us in the Greek Church. It was in the litany of prayers at this part:

"Remembering our all-holy, immaculate,

most blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos

and ever-virgin Mary, with all the saints, let us

commend ourselves and one another and our

whole life to Christ our God."

We would chant "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" while that verse was being chanted.

that's beautiful!

 

[All4Christ]

no, it’s done after Vespers. but I have seen it done at the end of Byzantine liturgies.

I personally don’t like changes like that to the services, but that’s the bishop’s call. I have enough to worry about as a knucklehead of a priest.

Okay - yes, we have it at the end of Vespers - I just haven’t seen it in DL. Thanks!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Okay - yes, we have it at the end of Vespers - I just haven’t seen it in DL. Thanks!

come to think about it, the only times I remember hearing it during the Liturgy is when the Theotokos is mentioned during the litanies. the choir sings it as the deacon does the petition.

 

[Dorothea]

that's beautiful!

Ah, well, that’s just part of the Divine Liturgy. Yes, it’s all beautiful.

 

[All4Christ]

come to think about it, the only times I remember hearing it during the Liturgy is when the Theotokos is mentioned during the litanies. the choir sings it as the deacon does the petition.

Do you mean the festal litanies? Through the prayers of the Theotokos save us?

 

[Dorothea]

Do you mean the festal litanies? Through the prayers of the Theotokos save us?

you said it exactly right! I didn't have the whole verse there! thanks for posting this and correcting that! Yes, it's "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us". I believe "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" is from the Paraklesis.

 

[RileyG]

you said it exactly right! I didn't have the whole verse there! thanks for posting this and correcting that! Yes, it's "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us". I believe "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" is from the Paraklesis.

(Posting in fellowship)

How common is the prayer “Most Holy Mother of God, save us” ?

I’ve seen it on some Orthodox websites, so I’m curious.

I know it’s essentially asking for her prayers for the salvation of the faithful.

God bless

 

[Dorothea]

(Posting in fellowship)

How common is the prayer “Most Holy Mother of God, save us” ?

I’ve seen it on some Orthodox websites, so I’m curious.

I know it’s essentially asking for her prayers for the salvation of the faithful.

God bless

Well, first, what I originally meant in the OP was "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us" instead of "Most Holy Theotokos, save us". That chant (Through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us) is no longer said in the Divine Liturgy. But to your question, I've only heard the latter (Most Holy Theotokos, save us) in the Paraklesis.

 

[RileyG]

Well, first, what I originally meant in the OP was "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us" instead of "Most Holy Theotokos, save us". That chant (Through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us) is no longer said in the Divine Liturgy. But to your question, I've only heard the latter (Most Holy Theotokos, save us) in the Paraklesis.

Thanks for the answer!

God bless

 

[ArmyMatt]

Do you mean the festal litanies? Through the prayers of the Theotokos save us?

no, when the deacon does the final petition of most litanies where we mention the Theotokos, I have heard Greek choirs sing “Most holy Theotokos save us” before they sing “

 

[All4Christ]

no, when the deacon does the final petition of most litanies where we mention the Theotokos, I have heard Greek choirs sing “Most holy Theotokos save us” before they sing “

Oh - I thought you meant the OCA - which was the opposite of what you said earlier (and what I’ve seen ). Thank you for clarifying.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Oh - I thought you meant the OCA - which was the opposite of what you said earlier (and what I’ve seen ). Thank you for clarifying.

haha, no problem. sorry I was not more clear.

 

[rusmeister]

(Posting in fellowship)

How common is the prayer “Most Holy Mother of God, save us” ?

I’ve seen it on some Orthodox websites, so I’m curious.

I know it’s essentially asking for her prayers for the salvation of the faithful.

God bless

In Russian and Serbian, they say “Bogoroditsa”, which translates as “the one who gave birth to God”. She is constantly referred to as the Mother of God in both languages in one way or another. Right now, I hear a lot of “sveto Majko” (Holy Mother) in the singing, though some things the Serbians sing (I’m including all Balkan Orthodox peoples here) are definitely more modern and informal than the Russian forms I learned over my twenty years there.

 

[The Liturgist]

Nah, seems to me like the bishop wants to do it by the book. We're Orthodox, we like book.

That said, remember the North Slavonic use has always differed from the Mediterranean usages, even more so since they switched to the Violakis Typikon. So what is normative for a Russian or canonical UOC parish is often unheard of in Greek parishes, for example, chanting psalms 102 and 106 in full at the start of the Divine Liturgy, or doing All Night Vigils weekly rather than celebrating Orthros during the morning.

Lately some OCA parishes of Russian heritage have been changing to the latter practice, celebrating only Great Vespers on Saturday night, and I am not happy about that.

 

[The Liturgist]

In Russian and Serbian, they say “Bogoroditsa”, which translates as “the one who gave birth to God”. She is constantly referred to as the Mother of God in both languages in one way or another. Right now, I hear a lot of “sveto Majko” (Holy Mother) in the singing, though some things the Serbians sing (I’m including all Balkan Orthodox peoples here) are definitely more modern and informal than the Russian forms I learned over my twenty years there.

At some point I’d love to have a deep conversation about variations in Slavic liturgical uses with you. I am wanting to compile a book that highlights the legitimate and beautiful variations in Orthodox liturgical practices ranging from architecture to music to the local usages of the Typikon (the Studite-Sabaite Typikon; I don’t intend to celebrate the Violakis typikon as I don’t like it, but I do like the disused Cathedral Typikon from the Hagia Sophia and the older typikon version used by the Russian Old Rite Orthodox (the canonical edinovertsy and other canonical Old Rite communities in Romania, and the Church of the Nativity in Erie, PA, a former schismatic “priestless” chapel miraculously persuaded to become a ROCOR parish.

Speaking of ROCOR, would you happen to know why they use only white and not red from the start of the Paschal Divine Liturgy after the conclusion of Paschal Matins, until the Ascension?

 

[rusmeister]

At some point I’d love to have a deep conversation about variations in Slavic liturgical uses with you. I am wanting to compile a book that highlights the legitimate and beautiful variations in Orthodox liturgical practices ranging from architecture to music to the local usages of the Typikon (the Studite-Sabaite Typikon; I don’t intend to celebrate the Violakis typikon as I don’t like it, but I do like the disused Cathedral Typikon from the Hagia Sophia and the older typikon version used by the Russian Old Rite Orthodox (the canonical edinovertsy and other canonical Old Rite communities in Romania, and the Church of the Nativity in Erie, PA, a former schismatic “priestless” chapel miraculously persuaded to become a ROCOR parish.

Speaking of ROCOR, would you happen to know why they use only white and not red from the start of the Paschal Divine Liturgy after the conclusion of Paschal Matins, until the Ascension?

I’m flattered, but I don’t pretend to deep liturgical understanding. I can only tell you what I hear and understand. Lucky for me, having learned the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom In Russia, that much of it is in the same Old Church Slavonic here in Montenegro and the Balkans in general. They have unique songs and ways of doing things; amongbthe parts that differ (excluding obvious things, like homilies) which seem both more colloquial and more recent in origin and modern. I don’t know the different types of Typikons or the technical language natural to a seminary student. I’m just a layman, whose thing is languages as such. I’m afraid I wouldn’t be able to hold up a great conversation for long outside of the language stuff.

 

[gzt]

At some point I’d love to have a deep conversation about variations in Slavic liturgical uses with you. I am wanting to compile a book that highlights the legitimate and beautiful variations in Orthodox liturgical practices ranging from architecture to music to the local usages of the Typikon (the Studite-Sabaite Typikon; I don’t intend to celebrate the Violakis typikon as I don’t like it, but I do like the disused Cathedral Typikon from the Hagia Sophia and the older typikon version used by the Russian Old Rite Orthodox (the canonical edinovertsy and other canonical Old Rite communities in Romania, and the Church of the Nativity in Erie, PA, a former schismatic “priestless” chapel miraculously persuaded to become a ROCOR parish.

Speaking of ROCOR, would you happen to know why they use only white and not red from the start of the Paschal Divine Liturgy after the conclusion of Paschal Matins, until the Ascension?

I heard that red for Pascha is a specifically Muscovite style and was not universal in Russia (though becoming more fashionable recently to do elsewhere), and the ROCOR's practices reflect that, but also I don't think it's universal in the ROCOR to only do white.

 

[gzt]

That said, remember the North Slavonic use has always differed from the Mediterranean usages, even more so since they switched to the Violakis Typikon. So what is normative for a Russian or canonical UOC parish is often unheard of in Greek parishes, for example, chanting psalms 102 and 106 in full at the start of the Divine Liturgy, or doing All Night Vigils weekly rather than celebrating Orthros during the morning.

Lately some OCA parishes of Russian heritage have been changing to the latter practice, celebrating only Great Vespers on Saturday night, and I am not happy about that.

Yes, but here the point is that the Greek service books don't say to sing "Most Holy Theotokos save us" at that point of the litanies, do they?