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Where did demons come from?

GoldenKingGaze

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Greetings GoldenKingGaze. Thank you for commenting on my post. Peace be to you brother.

Just addressing the book of Job.

Job 38:5-7 appears to be in the context of 'creation'. It refers to when God "determined its measurements" and foundations being fastened. Within this context, along with "morning stars". It seems evident to me that sons of God are angels here in Job 38. The only Humans that would even be considered would be Adam and Eve (but only if by creation, it is referring to that far into creation, i.e., the creation of mankind). But the reference to creation appears to be more limited to the heaven and earth. Further, Adam would be the only "son" and would not constitute the use of the plural "sons". So the "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Job 38:5-7 are angels in favor and blessings of the Lord.

In Job 1:6 and 2:1, it appears to be referencing some kind of assembly of the divine court in which angels come and present themselves before the Lord. Satan apparently still has access to this court (my speculation is that he represents earth and mankind because he is the ruler of this world (John 12:31), although this is speculation). Although I could see a possible argument for why even Job 1:6 and 2:1 could be human. I think it is more likely that they are angels like in Job 38:5-7.

Despite this fact that I think that the common phrase of possession of 'whose you are' in Job is in reference to angels. This does not dictate that those in Genesis 6:1-4 are angels. For the foundation of this is that bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm does not translate "humans" or "angels" but translates "sons of God" which is an expression of 'whose you are'. The further reasoning and verses for this in the previous post.

Peace to you brother.
Thanks for your reply. I interpret Job to be referring to other races that could roughly be called human and not angelic. Or ourselves before conception, pre-existing. There would be a great many populated worlds and some civilisations much older than ours. I'd say morning stars and sons existed together billions of years ago.
 
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Greetings to you Postvieww. I hope you are have a blessed day.

Regarding your assertion about "sons of God" in the OT. The use of the phrase "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Job is clearly in reference to angels. They are not humans. However, the reference to "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Genesis is not so clear.

The Hebrew phrase bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm does not translate to "angels" but to "sons of God". I point this out to demonstrate that the phrase of "sons of God" is a moniker (of sorts). That is, it is a moniker that denotes imagery for 'whose you are'.

Within the rest of the Bible, the imagery of "sons of..." denotes a membership, ethical standard, and favor of God; it denotes ‘whose you are’. This consistent imagery that sons of God, children of God, daughters of God are reserved for those in the favor and respect of God and his blessings seems to be supported by the fact that no other reference within the Bible gives imagery or a moniker of favor to a fallen angel (or man). But, in fact, fallen angels are depicted within context of “cursed” (Matt 25:41) “leading the world astray” (Rev 12:9), being in Hell and chained (2Pet 2:4), kept in chains under darkness.

On the other hand, angels in the favor and respect of God are called “angels of God” (Gen 28:12, Gen 32:1, Matt 22:30, Luke 12:8, Luke 12:9, Luke 15:10, John 1:51, Hebrews 1:6), “sons of the mighty” (Psalm 89:6), “holy ones” (Psalm 89:5) “holy watchers” (Daniel 4:13)... and … most likely if we are consistent with biblical imagery... “sons of God” (Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7).

Satan is described as masquerading as an angel of light (2Cor 11:14), leading the whole world astray (Revelation 12:9). He is a thief (John 10:10), a murderer, and the father of lies (John 8:44). It would appear to stick out as inconsistent within Scripture if the author, with the Spirit inspiring, would give reference to a fallen angel as anything other than evil, sinful, cursed, or fallen. Which is what the angel advocate is saying, that is, that an imagery phrase that is consistent within the biblical text as denoting 'whose you are' as being 'of God' and in His favor is a fallen evil angel in Genesis 6:1-4.

I'll restrict myself to one more point so I don't write an essay here.

(1) Interestingly, Job refers to angels in two other instances within the book of Job using a different Hebrew form of the word angel (Job 4:18, Job 33:23). In both those verses Job uses the Hebrew word mal-awk' (Job 33:23) or its derivative mal·’ā·ḵāw (Job 4:18). These are very common uses of "angel" within the entire Bible. In fact, this Hebrew word mal-awk' is used for “angel” 64x in the Bible. Further, it is also used as a common word for ‘angel’ in the book of Genesis, 8x (Gen 16:7,9,10,11; 21:17; 22:11; 22:15; 31:11).

So a question starts to materialize. Why doesn't Job, and the author of Genesis, use the more common form of 'angel' in these other passages instead of using a phrase of possession in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7? The answer is, God wanted those that read it to understand who these people belong to, or in whose favor these people were, i.e., God's. Both uses of "sons of God" in Genesis and Job are denoting that whatever being is being referenced is in membership and favor of God. As is consistent with the rest of scripture.

It therefore follows that since this common Hebrew phrase "sons of..." denotes ownership and favor. Then the reference to "sons of God" in Genesis 6 is not a reference to fallen angels but in fact human beings that are in the ownership and favor of the Lord, i.e., those in Genesis 4:26.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure
Thanks for your response but I have to disagree with many of your conclusions. It seems we agree on Job but Genesis 6 is another matter. I am assuming you are opposed to the theory that angels cohabited with human women and produced the giants referred to in scripture. If that is the case you have to take the stance you have or you would be faced with a contradiction you can’t get away from. I have studied this for years and I am settled in my belief as I am sure you are. I only participate in these exchanges for the benefit of some who have not made up their minds . I have discussed this issue on this forum since 2014 and have seen almost every possible angle expressed. Unlike some who are extremely opposed I do give some credibility to the book of Enoch and some of the early church father’s writings. This theory actually is a widely held belief within the church but it is not a salvation issue. Peace to you my brother.
 
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Yes it says that.

Nothing anywhere in scripture says angels became demons. It may be a commonly held belief but it is not stated in our canon of Scripture.
The stars of heaven are what, then?
 
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The stars of heaven are what, then?
Stars represent angels not demons. The two terms are not interchangeable. Nothing in scripture says they are the same . There is no scripture stating angels have possessed humans. Demons are disembodied spirits seeking a body to possess and control. Angels have their own spiritual body. Many default to angels and demons being the same because they have no theory on the origin of demons.
 
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Stars represent angels not demons. The two terms are not interchangeable. Nothing in scripture says they are the same . There is no scripture stating angels have possessed humans. Demons are disembodied spirits seeking a body to possess and control. Angels have their own spiritual body. Many default to angels and demons being the same because they have no theory on the origin of demons.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. rev 12:9
 
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9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. rev 12:9
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
 
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Stars represent angels not demons. The two terms are not interchangeable. Nothing in scripture says they are the same . There is no scripture stating angels have possessed humans. Demons are disembodied spirits seeking a body to possess and control. Angels have their own spiritual body. Many default to angels and demons being the same because they have no theory on the origin of demons.
Yet Lucifer and the devil are used interchangeably. Lucifer used to be an angel, yet he turned into the devil.
 
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Paleouss

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Thanks for your reply. I interpret Job to be referring to other races that could roughly be called human and not angelic. Or ourselves before conception, pre-existing. There would be a great many populated worlds and some civilisations much older than ours. I'd say morning stars and sons existed together billions of years ago.
GoldenKingGaze:

Thank you very much for revealing your understanding. I would need to know some information if I am to precede. What I would like to know, if you are so kind as to inform me. Do you believe in Sola scriptura? Also, do you believe that Scripture defines scripture?

Your brother in Christ
 
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Yet Lucifer and the devil are used interchangeably. Lucifer used to be an angel, yet he turned into the devil.
You can find that in scripture but you can’t find angels being called demons. If you know of a scripture post it I would love to see it.
 
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You can find that in scripture but you can’t find angels being called demons. If you know of a scripture post it I would love to see it.
If Lucifer, the angel, turned into Satan, then the angels would become demons. As for how the devil acts in scripture and his curse and how he's tormented the saint, God doesn't need to state something that obvious to most Christians
 
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Paleouss

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Thanks for your response
Thank you for your politeness.
but I have to disagree with many of your conclusions.
Which ones? Or is it just that angels procreated with human women?
It seems we agree on Job
If you mean that "sons of God" in Job is a reference to angels. Then yes, we agree.
I am assuming you are opposed to the theory that angels cohabited with human women and produced the giants referred to in scripture. If that is the case you have to take the stance you have or you would be faced with a contradiction you can’t get away from.
Yes, nowhere in the Bible will we find that angels cohabitated with human women (the verses in dispute don't count, i.e. Gen 6:1-4) Not only that, there are many biblical arguments that can be brought to bare to show it is not the case.
I have studied this for years and I am settled in my belief as I am sure you are. I only participate in these exchanges for the benefit of some who have not made up their minds . I have discussed this issue on this forum since 2014 and have seen almost every possible angle expressed.
May all from either side of this issue be open to the Spirit of God and truth (me as well). Proverbs 2... (Pro 2:3-5 NKJV) 3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment, [And] lift up your voice for understanding, 4 If you seek her as silver, And search for her as [for] hidden treasures; 5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD, And find the knowledge of God.
Unlike some who are extremely opposed I do give some credibility to the book of Enoch and some of the early church father’s writings.
Are you Catholic? And are you referring to Tertullian?

In regard to the book of Enoch, I do not hold that it is inspired (nor was it ever). Thus it is open to all forms of error. However, the book of Enoch does have one great value, imo. That is the support that the Jewish people, prior to Jesus, had an interpretation of Masiach ben Joseph along with an interpretation of a Masiach ben David. That is VERY important information to have.
This theory actually is a widely held belief within the church but it is not a salvation issue.
Definitely not a salvation issue.

Peace to you my brother.
Very kind. Thank you.


Your brother in Christ.
 
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Paleouss

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For those looking for biblically logical arguments along with explicit verses.


Argument From Reason - God Created All Things Good Concept
(1) God created all things (John 1:3, Rev 4:11, Col 1:16)
(2) Everything that God created was/is first good (Gen 1:31), for God does not have “pleasure in wickedness” (Psa 5:4).
(3) God created some beings with moral agency (humans and angels).
(4) There is evil in the world.
(5) Therefore, everything that was created was created by God, was first created good, and then became evil/fallen due to moral agency.
(6) Evil spirits are said to be the offspring of evil, a new species, neither angel nor human that is created by evil to do evil.
(7) For (6) to be true, either (1b) God did not create all things or (2b) God created evil, to do evil, and therefore is not all good.
(C) Neither (1b) nor (2b) can be true due to (1) and (2) which are necessarily true.
(C) Therefore, (6) is false.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it was hidden treasure
 
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Paleouss

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Geetings By GraceandLoveDivine.
If Lucifer, the angel, turned into Satan, then the angels would become demons.
If A=B and B=C then A=C.

If Angels = spirits (Heb 1:13-14,Matt 12:24-26,Eph 2:2,Psa 104:4,Num 27:16)
and demons = spirits (Luke 10:17-20, Matt 8:16, Luke 9:39-42)

Then Angels = demons

Now some might say that yes, both are spirits but they are not the same thing. But that claim would seem to need some support (like biblical references of what they are). If there is no other biblical references to what demons are within the Bible, then it is reasonable to conclude that since the Bible use them synonymously then we must be correct that if A=B and B=C then A=C.

Additionally, Satan, who is an angel, is referred to as a demon called Beelzebub in Matthew 12:24 when it says,“by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons." We know that Beelzebub is Satan because Jesus then responds, “If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself” (Matt12:26). So a specific angel, Satan, is referred to as a demon by the Jews (by a demon name), and a ruler of demons.




Peace be to you brother
 
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Thank you for your politeness.
You are welcome.
Which ones? Or is it just that angels procreated with human women?
First of the fact that you acknowledge three of the four OT references potentially refer to angels and refuse the same meaning for Genesis 6 apparently because it does not fit your narrative. You need it to be different or your theory falls apart. IMHO that is not good exegesis
If you mean that "sons of God" in Job is a reference to angels. Then yes, we agree.
Yes and that is the OT pattern in triplicate for the use of the phrase.

Yes, nowhere in the Bible will we find that angels cohabitated with human women (the verses in dispute don't count, i.e. Gen 6:1-4) Not only that, there are many biblical arguments that can be brought to bare to show it is not the case.
That is convenient for your position. do you forget:

Jude 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I am totally convinced this passage supports the angelic incursion theory of Genesis 6. I am sure you disagree and would love to hear your explanation for this passage.

May all from either side of this issue be open to the Spirit of God and truth (me as well). Proverbs 2... (Pro 2:3-5 NKJV) 3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment, [And] lift up your voice for understanding, 4 If you seek her as silver, And search for her as [for] hidden treasures; 5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD, And find the knowledge of God.
It is always good to pray for discernment.
Are you Catholic?
No!
And are you referring to Tertullian?
Here is one: This is not meant to imply what Justin wrote was on par with scripture, but it does show the understanding of these things in that day.

From “The Second Apology of Justin For the Christians”


CHAPTER V -- HOW THE ANGELS TRANSGRESSED.

But if this idea take possession of some one that if we acknowledge God as our helper, we should not, as we say, be oppressed and persecuted by the wicked; this, too, I will solve. God, when He had made the whole world, and subjected things earthly to man, and arranged the heavenly elements for the increase of fruits and rotation of the seasons, and appointed this divine law--for these things also He evidently made for man--committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment. and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and the punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they were enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate deeds, and all wickedness. Whence also the poets and mythologists, not knowing that it was the angels and those demons who had been begotten by them that did these things to men, and women, and cities, and nations, which they related, ascribed them to god himself, and to those who were accounted to be his very offspring, and to the offspring of those who were called his brothers, Neptune and Pluto, and to the children again of these their offspring. For whatever name each of the angels had given to himself and his children, by that name they called them.
In regard to the book of Enoch, I do not hold that it is inspired (nor was it ever).
Not going to argue that point but I will point out it is in the Ethiopian cannon of scripture, and certain passages were quoted in the NT. It was used in earlier church history. Jude refers to .

Thus it is open to all forms of error. However, the book of Enoch does have one great value, imo. That is the support that the Jewish people, prior to Jesus, had an interpretation of Masiach ben Joseph along with an interpretation of a Masiach ben David. That is VERY important information to have.
I do not base my belief on the Book of Enoch I just acknowledge it is at the very least of historical value and does on some points line up with scripture.

There are also other books that did not make it into our Bible that are referred to in in scripture. Such as the book of Jasher.

Joshua 10: 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)



Definitely not a salvation issue.
As are many other topics of debate in Christianity. For me the THEORY I hold to answers many more questions about scripture than it creates. I also believe many of the arguments against are based on assumptions without any contextual evidence. One example is the passage in Hebrews our friend on this thread uses to say God would never use the word son in reference to angels and even you acknowledge that in at least 3 passages in Job that is the case.
Very kind. Thank you.

Your brother in Christ.
 
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If Lucifer, the angel, turned into Satan, then the angels would become demons. As for how the devil acts in scripture and his curse and how he's tormented the saint, God doesn't need to state something that obvious to most Christians
I just cannot agree with your method of exegesis. Too many assumptions and use of scripture out of context.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

These two passage clearly show satan is referred to in Scripture by different names. There are no passages that clearly state angels are demons and your assumptions that this is the case is with without scriptural support . My friend you are free to believe what ever you wish, but such unsupported claims just may be challenged .
 
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And are you referring to Tertullian?

From an older thread of mine on this forum:



What Did Church Fathers Believe About The Nephilim?

Did church fathers write about Nephilim giants | Watchers Fallen Angels Anunnaki Atlantis

“Battle of Gods And Giants” – an ancient carving from Delphi Greece depicts the Nephilim in battle. (source). The Apostles knew this was based the Biblical account of the giants.

Part 7 In The Beginning And End Nephilim Series

In our 7-article series, Beginning and End made the Biblical case for the account of the Nephilim – namely that Genesis 6 details an era in which fallen angels entered the human realm, took human wives and conceived offspring with them who were giants. While the many books, articles and sermons on the Nephilim have seen a massive resurgence in the past decade – this interpretation of the antediluvian era of the Bible is not a new one. On the contrary, from the very first generation of the church, missionaries, teachers and bishops – some of whom were discipled by the Apostles of Christ themselves, believed that the sons of God in Genesis 6 did indeed have illicit sexual relations with human women who gave birth to the hybrid Nephilim giants. This article will go through the writings of Church fathers and Jewish historians from the first centuries after the birth of The Lord Jesus Christ that agree in the account of the Nephilim.


Justin Martyr

Church fathers and the Nephilim giants | The ancient church and Genesis 6 Sons of god daughters of men

Justin Martyr confirmed the account of Genesis 6 and the fallen Sons of God marrying human women.

Justin Martyr was a Christian philosopher and apologist in the 2nd century AD. He was an ardent defender of the Christian faith who was ultimately beheaded for his refusal to offer sacrifices to pagan gods. When asked why he famously stated: “No one who is rightly minded turns from true belief to false.” (source). Several of his writings are extant and he had a great deal to say about the angelic incursion of Genesis 6 that gave birth to the Nephilim:

“God, when He had made the whole world, and subjected things earthly to man, and arranged the heavenly elements for the increase of fruits and rotation of the seasons, and appointed this divine law – for these things also He evidently made for man – committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment. and were captivated by love of women.” – Second Apology; Chapter V.

Ireneaus

Did the early church believe the account of Nephilim giants? | New testament verses on Nephilim

Irenaeus (c. early 2nd century – c. 202 AD) was the bishop or pastor of the church in what is now Lyons, France. He was a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the Apostle John. His treatise Against Heresies was a landmark work that challenged the heretical Gnostic Christianity that threatened the true faith at that time. On Genesis 6:2 he wrote:

“And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants.” – A Discourse in the Demonstration of Apostolic Preaching; 18.

St. Ambrose

Was hercules a Nephilim | Greek myhology and Nephilim giants fallen angels

The Pergamon Altar (2nd Century BC) depicted giants battling gods. This altar is referenced in the book of Revelation.

St. Ambrose was one of the most influential Christians of the 4th century. He was appointed Bishop of Milan and made passionate defense of the deity of Christ against those who were proponents of the Arian heresy. On the Nephilim he wrote:

“The giants (Nephilim) were on the Earth in those days.” The author of the divine Scripture does not mean that those giants must be considered, according to the tradition of poets, as sons of the earth but asserts that those whom he defines with such a name because of the extraordinary size of their body were generated by angels and women.” – Ambrose, On Noah, 4.8. Genesis 1-11, Volume 1 edited by Andrew Louth, Thomas C. Oden, Marco Conti

Clement of Rome

Ancient church writings on the Nephilim and Genesis 6 | DId church fathers read the Book of Enoch

Clement of Rome was a Christian bishop in Rome in the first century and was a contemporary of the Apostle John. His epistle to the Corinthian church is one of the oldest extant Christian writings outside of the New Testament. The Clementine Homilies are a series of writings from the 2nd and 3rd century purporting to record dialogue between Clement and the Apostle Peter. While its authorship may have not been from Clement, its details on the Nephilim again demonstrate that this concept was well established in the early church:

“But when, having assumed these forms, they convicted as covetous those who stole them, and changed themselves into the nature of men, in order that, living holily, and showing the possibility of so living, they might subject the ungrateful to punishment, yet having become in all respects men, they also partook of human lust, and being brought under its subjection they fell into cohabitation with women; and being involved with them, and sunk in defilement and altogether emptied of their first power, were unable to turn back to the first purity of their proper nature, their members turned away from their fiery substance: for the fire itself, being extinguished by the weight of lust, and changed into flesh, they trode the impious path downward. For they themselves, being fettered with the bonds of flesh, were constrained and strongly bound; wherefore they have no more been able to ascend into the heavens.” – Clementine Homilies, Homily VIII, Chapter XIII.

Lactantius

Lucius Lactantius (c. 250 -325 AD) was a Christian author in the early 4th century. Formerly a pagan public official, he resigned from political life after converting to Christianity and served as an advisor to Emperor Constantine. He wrote many apologetics, defending the Christian faith. In His chapter “On the Corruption of Angels..” he wrote:

“When, therefore, the number of men had begun to increase, God in His forethought, lest the devil, to whom from the beginning He had given power over the earth, should by his subtlety either corrupt or destroy men, as he had done at first, sent angels for the protection and improvement of the human race; and inasmuch as He had given these a free will, He enjoined them above all things not to defile themselves with contamination from the earth, and thus lose the dignity of their heavenly nature. He plainly prohibited them from doing that which He knew that they would do, that they might entertain no hope of pardon. Therefore, while they abode among men, that most deceitful ruler of the earth, by his very association, gradually enticed them to vices, and polluted them by intercourse with women.” – Lactantius, Divine Institutes, Book II, Ch. XV.

Tertullian

Church fathers and the book of enoch | Early church writings on Nephilim giants fallen angelsTertullian (155 – 240 AD) was an African Christian theologian from the Roman province of Carthage. He was a prolific writer and his works are the foundation of Christian thought in the language of Latin. Outside of the Bible itself, he is the earliest believer on record to write about the concept of the trinity. On the Genesis 6 incursion he wrote:

“We are instructed, moreover, by our sacred books how from certain angels, who fell of their own free-will, there sprang a more wicked demon-brood, condemned of God along with the authors of their race, and that chief we have referred to. It will for the present be enough, however, that some account is given of their work. Their great business is the ruin of mankind. So, from the very first, spiritual wickedness sought our destruction. They inflict, accordingly, upon our bodies diseases and other grievous calamities, while by violent assaults they hurry the soul into sudden and extraordinary excesses.” – Apology, Ch. XXII.

First Century Jewish Thought On The Nephilim

Ancient Hebrew books on Nephilim giants | What did the early church believe about the Nephilim

Antiquities of the Jews is one of the greatest extant historical records – and it mentions the Nephilim.

Flavius Josephus, one of the most renowned historians of all time, was a Jew living in Roman occupied Judea in the decades after the death and resurrection of The Lord Jesus Christ. His writings, which are extant, very clearly demonstrate his exceptional knowledge of the Old testament and the history of the Jewish people going back to Creation. In his most landmark work, Antiquities Of The Jews, he wrote of Genesis 6:

“For many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength; for the tradition is, that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants.” – Antiquities of the Jews, Book I, 3:1, Flavius Josephus, as recorded in The Works of Flavius Josephus, William Whiston, Vol. 1, 1843, p. 16.

Testimony of the Apostles

Ancient aliens in the BIble Jude | When do the angels in the abyss get released

The Book of Jude

Of course the Apostles of Jesus Christ, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit provide the ultimate confirmation of the angelic incursion of Genesis 6:

“And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” – Jude 1:6–7

“For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked…” – 2 Peter 2:4–7

The Early Church Believed In the Account of the Nephilim


While the account of angelic-human marriage giving rise to the birth of the Nephilim of Genesis 6 remains a hotly debated topic, there is no question that this concept was understood by the church from the first century after the birth of The Lord Jesus Christ. While not all Christians believed it to be the case, there is certainly nothing new about the concept of the Nephilim. As stated from the onset, the writings of the Church Fathers are not on par with the Holy Bible – but they do provide remarkable insight into the beliefs of the early church. And in this instance there is no question that a great number of church leaders believed that the history of the Nephlim on Earth was quite real.

*This concludes the Nephilim Series but the study is far from over. Beginning And End is very pleased to announce the release of the first comprehensive Biblical study on the giants and the Genesis 6 account – Judgment Of The Nephilim. We have contributed a great deal of our own research to this book and it is filled with startling revelations on the giants that you will not find in any other book on this topic. Judgment Of The Nephilim surveys every passage in the Holy Bible on the giants – many which are rarely connected to the Nephilim. Among the many questions it addresses are:

The Biblical location of the heavenly portal used by angels to enter the earthly realm.

Who was the first mother of a Nephilim?

The specific timing and description of God’s punishment of the rebel Sons of God and the Nephilim

How did the Nephilim return after the flood?

The Biblical connection between demons and the Nephilim

The connection to Atlantis and the gods and demigods of mythology.

All these answers and many, many more from the Bible. Once our ministry started researching the Nephilim in-depth we realized there was a great deal of untapped, rarely quoted Christian and Jewish writings on the giants that answer many, many of the questions we all have on this topic. Now we have the answers. This is a must-own book if you are reader on the subject of the Nephilim giants. The trailer is below:
 
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Postvieww

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Unclean and Evil Spirits, Devils

Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Matthew 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mark 1:23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and he cried out,

Mark 1:26 And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.

Mark 1:27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

Mark 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mark 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Mark 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

Mark 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

Mark 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

Mark 7:25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:

Luke 4:33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,

Luke 4:36 And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.

Luke 6:18 And they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed.

Luke 8:29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

Luke 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

Luke 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Acts 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

1 Samuel 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1 Samuel 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1 Samuel 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19:9 And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

1 Kings 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

2 Chronicles 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger.

Luke 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Acts 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Matthew 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

Matthew 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

Matthew 8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

Matthew 8:33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.

Matthew 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.

Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

Matthew 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.

Mark 1:34 And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.

Mark 1:39 And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils.

Mark 3:15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

Mark 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

Mark 6:13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luke 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Luke 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

Luke 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

Luke 8:33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.

Luke 8:35 Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Luke 8:36 They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.

Luke 8:38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying,

Luke 9:1 Then and to cure diseases. he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils,

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Luke 11:15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.

Luke 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

Luke 11:19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Luke 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Characteristics of Evils spirits, devils, unclean spirits

Supernatural Strength:


Acts19:12-16 One man possessed overcame the seven sons of Sceva,

Matthew 8:28, Luke 8:29

Connected with infirmities:

Luke 8:2, Luke 7:21, Acts 8:7,

Multiple evil spirits can possess one person:

Mark 16:9 Luke 8:2, Luke 8:30-36,

Cause individuals to be self destructive:

Luke 9:42, Mark 1:26

When cast out seek another to possess or can return to the same person:

Luke 11:24

Can possess animals:

Matthew 8:31, Mark 5:12-13

They recognize those who have authority over them:

Mark 1:34, Mark 3:11, Luke 4:41, Acts 19:15, James 2:19

They roam this earth seeking one to possess and are not yet cast into hell:

Matthew 8:29, Matthew 12:43,

May gather in certain areas:

Revelation 18:12

Desire worship and are behind false religions, false doctrine, and the occult:

2 Chronicles 33:6, 1 Corinthians 10:20, 1 Timothy 4:1, Revelation 9:20

Can work miracles:

Revelation 16:14

Devils do not cast out other devils:

Luke 11:15-22

Devils respond to the name of Jesus:

Mark 9:38, Mark 16:17, Luke 10:17, Luke 9:49,

Cause abnormal behavior:

Luke 8:27

Satan is the prince over devils:

Mark 3:22

Can be used of God for His purposes: Note: all of these are Old Testament references.

Judges 9:23, 1 Samuel 16:14-16, 1 Samuel 18:10, 1 Samuel 19:9, 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Chronicles 18:22,


Evils spirits, devils, unclean spirits are never referred to in scripture as “fallen angels”
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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GoldenKingGaze:

Thank you very much for revealing your understanding. I would need to know some information if I am to precede. What I would like to know, if you are so kind as to inform me. Do you believe in Sola scriptura? Also, do you believe that Scripture defines scripture?

Your brother in Christ
I use sola scriptura but I think truths may come apart from the Bible alone. I check in scripture, prophecy and NDE testimonies. I also check my visions. It builds on the rock, then it's plausible. From the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man learns from his death and after what he should have learned from the prophets.

I'd say scripture explains scripture and to start a discussion, all the relevant scriptures should come forward at the early stage. Even in the OP.

I use speculative theology.

The Holy Spirit teaches the word best.
 
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You are welcome.
Good morning Postvieww. Thank God for His grace and His risen Son.

First of the fact that you acknowledge three of the four OT references potentially refer to angels and refuse the same meaning for Genesis 6 apparently because it does not fit your narrative. You need it to be different or your theory falls apart. IMHO that is not good exegesis
If you would go back and read my post #37 to you. You will discover that my exegesis, which is a correct one and consistent, is that the Hebrew phrase "sons of..." is a common expression within the biblical text that denotes ownership. It is an expression of 'whose you are' throughout the entire Bible. One could write a dissertation on this fact, due to the plethora of examples found within the Bible. If you deny this fact of the common use of "sons of..." within the biblical text. Please provide evidence that it is wrong.

bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm does not translate to "angel" nor "human". It translates to "sons of God". Hence, proper exegesis would be to consintetly apply the commonly used expression of ownership, i.e., "sons of..." to every instance. Bad exegesis would be to assume that bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm simply means 'angel' in every instance (or human).

Properly applying the commonly used expression of ownership of "sons of..." to the Proverb verses ( Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7) One would seem to be compelled to say that the Proverb verses that contain bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm are referring to angels in the membership, ethical standard, and favor of God (translated: Good angel). This is proper exegesis.

Using this same standard, one then must apply this common expression of "sons of..." to the Genesis 6:1-4. Since "sons of..." is an expression of ownership, and the phrase sons of God indicates that that ownership is God's. Then it follows that the expression bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm in Genesis 6:1-4 is of something that is in the ethical standard and favor of God. Since our options are angels and humans, then proper exegesis would demand that our options are these: (1) Good angels (2) Good humans. Good angels makes no sense. And since nobody advocates for that, I won't go into why it makes no sense. So the only other option is 'good humans'. Which makes total sense considering the context starting from Genesis 4 (particularly Gen 4:26) to the end of Genesis 6.

I see no problem with my exegesis.

Great conversation

Your brother in Christ
 
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