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Lenin and Russia

Dorothea

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The organization was exposing Stalin-era crimes; it was brutally crushed - Dmitriev’s case in particular is egregious. Russians in Russia are now afraid to openly express any opinion that doesn’t toe the government’s line. As long as they keep quiet, they are mostly left alone. But so much for any freedom of speech. I say this with bitterness because I love Russia and would like to see the same freedom and prosperity we knew at one time in America, and some of which we still have, and would like to see the Russian Church drawing people to the Kingdom of Heaven rather than cynically working for the government.

That’s terrible!
 
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rusmeister

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I saw a video of a guy venerating it like an icon. :(
I have erstwhile friends that by now probably venerate him. I remember a conversation at a banya some five or six years ago, where one was trying to convince me that he had been secretly tonsured as a monastic in the late 1940’s.
 
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RileyG

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RileyG

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I always loved Fr Hopko calling Lenin’s tomb “dull, dark, and ridiculous.”
Curious why a Christian would visit his tomb…? For educational purposes?
 
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RileyG

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RileyG

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seashale76

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I’m aware, but why would anyone venerate an atheist?
Because they went to great lengths to replace religion with secular atheism. It was literally their new religion with statues and pictures that they honored like Christians do icons, and 'incorrupt' saints (Lenin). They couldn't simply just tell everyone that religion was dead, they had to give them something in return. At this stage, there is nostalgia to throw into the mix to keep this going. I'm absolutely not surprised they have retconned Stalin and are keeping Lenin's tomb open. I figured it was the next step after seeing the MP honor a statue of Sergius a few years ago. Don't get me started on the war cathedral.

This is a great resource to introduce yourself to a subject that most Americans are not exposed to: Seventeen Moments in Soviet History
 
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rusmeister

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Because they went to great lengths to replace religion with secular atheism. It was literally their new religion with statues and pictures that they honored like Christians do icons, and 'incorrupt' saints (Lenin). They couldn't simply just tell everyone that religion was dead, they had to give them something in return. At this stage, there is nostalgia to throw into the mix to keep this going. I'm absolutely not surprised they have retconned Stalin and are keeping Lenin's tomb open. I figured it was the next step after seeing the MP honor a statue of Sergius a few years ago. Don't get me started on the war cathedral.

This is a great resource to introduce yourself to a subject that most Americans are not exposed to: Seventeen Moments in Soviet History
Agreed. But it didn’t HAVE to be this way. I watched, from the inside, over the 1990’s and 2000’s, as the USSR fell,the Russians were so eager to be our friends and allies, though their civilization was falling down around their ears. If we had Marshall-planned them, like we did with Germany and Japan after WW2, they would have willingly become flat-out Western. But our foreign policy was run by scumbags who needed constant war and military conflict, who could NOT let their Cold War cash cow turn into a Peace Dividend, and when it became clear that conducting a war against an emotion (“Terror”) could not be sustained, they needed a credible geopolitical threat, and North Korea and Iran simply did not fit the bill. Only Russia or China could excite the necessary fear to justify massive continuous spending, but we had mega-billion dollar trade with China, and next to nothing with Russia, so for them, it wasn’t a hard choice as to which should be chosen as our perma-enemy. And so, everything was done to deny Russia as an ally, and provoke her as an enemy. Again and again and again. From 1995-2014, we - our foreign policy - encouraged them to hate and mistrust us. And so, the Communist Party and the cult of Stalin, as dead as doornails, had life blown back into them as the alternative when membership in the EU and G-(7, or other number) were consistently denied them, and NATO continually pushed eastward, despite assurances that we would not do that.
WE, our political leadership, helped resurrect this Frankenstein. And we ought to admit that.
 
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The Liturgist

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If you think that’s bad, I was once shown photographs of the laboratories where the preservation is conducted, and even worse, of the technical staff performing the preservation - I can safely assure members of the forum that I’ve seen much more of Vladimir Lenin than most people would ever possibly want to.*

Lenin is certainly not incorrupt, nor have his remains been replaced by wax (which probably did happen to some extent in the case of Chairman Mao due to a severe technical error made by the Chinese team, who unlike the team that did Ho Chi Minh, lacked access to decades of Soviet expertise in long term preservation; many people have described the appearance of Mao as “exceeedingly waxy” and regard the speed at which visitors and Communist pilgrims are whisked through the viewing room as suspicious) but rather exists in an advanced state of chemical preservation, but one which it takes a specialized laboratory to maintain.

* This was in the context of a course I took while doing extensive research into the history of the Soviet Union for a book I was working on, before I converted to Orthodoxy but after I had become interested in the possibility, about 17 years ago, approximately; I greatly dislike the Soviet union (although I like the accomplishments of its people in terms of aircraft, spacecraft, railway systems and even the GAZ and ZIL automobiles used by higher ranking partie members and the elite members of the nomenklatura respectively, and I find it ironic that in the Soviet union the class system was so rigid compared to capitalist countries that one’s rank in the Communist Party or lack thereof determined what kind of car, or lack thereof, one would drive). Had the country been free to operate with freedom of religion in the Orthodox Church under a competent government without the evil Marxist-Leninist klepto-oligarchical system parasitically leaching off of it, for example, had the Czar not been deposed and granted a crown of martyrdom for not renouncing Christ (which would later happen under the Soviet-inspired Derg regime in Ethiopia, so that the world has no officially Christian Emperors left in power, only the presumably Shinto-Buddhist Emperor of Japan).

I am planning on writing a book about the Evil Empire, as Ronald Reagan correctly called it, and the good people who suffered therein it, which Ronald Reagan made a point of stressing by sharing jokes smuggled across the Iron Curtain. I had wanted to stress the dichotomy between the pious Orthodox people and other people of the Soviet lands and those of satellite countries of the COMECON and the ridiculous corruption of the ruling class. However I decided instead to make the point in the form of a science fiction novel depicting a future regime inspired by the Soviet Union, since getting the people who matter - the youth - interested in Kremlinology and Soviet history and countering the increasingly strident appeals of those who view the Soviet Union with rose-tinted glasses and think its a system that should be revived, who have gone from a few obscure people, such as a man I encountered in Dresden in 2003 holding a Soviet flag, handing out leaflets and wearing a beret with glasses worthy of a Politburo (I wish I’d had my picture taken with him, since he was a rare example of a true believer who had lived during the period of Communism and wanted it back, which in East Germany due to the way in which reintegration with the West was handled is a sentiment one would encounter, not just in the form of “Ostalgie” but in the form of people who actually thought that life in the DDR was better, because they had lost their job and had difficulties due to the manner in which the reform was conducted; conversely, there are many in Western Germany who are resentful about the amount of money spent on East Germany and regard the “Osties” as ungrateful; for my part I think the DDR should have been allowed to be a separate country in a cultural and customs union with the West, but with a distinct currency, which could have been devalued, as it would have allowed for the kind of economic renaissance that happened to the former Warsaw Pact countries when trade barriers were taken down to happen in the DDR, immediately, in 1990, and then once the countries had equalized, full reunion could have happened. This would have had the added benefit of providing DB and Lufthansa competitors in the form of DR and Interflug, as opposed to what actually happened in terms of dismantling DR and Interflug and in the case of the latter basically laying most people off (since the most important airport in East Germany, Tegel, was in West Berlin, and had a good ground service operation that had belonged to Pan Am, TWA, British Airways and Air France, as Lufthansa was not allowed to fly there until 1989).
 
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The Liturgist

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He provides a nice contrast to the relics of our Saints. His body is subject to corruption whereas the Saints body's are incorrupt, either remaining whole or exuding an ineffable fragrance from their bones.

I was going to write a post along the lines.

Also I would note that his body is so saturated with toxic chemicals that if they bury him in the ground, it will kill all of the flora and fauna, and if they bury him in the ocean all the fish will float to the surface.

Probably the best bet would be to launch his remains into space on an orbit that would achieve escape velocity and send them out of the solar system (his brain was apparently removed for study by Soviet scientists, so there would be no risk of aliens reviving him in the manner of The Three Body Problem - actually there wouldn’t be anyway for unless the human brain is immediately frozen post mortem, which did not happen in the case of Comrade Lenin, chemical reactions partially dissolve it, obliterating the neural network that interprets sensory input and controls autonomic and voluntary muscles.

I controversially regard Lenin as worse than Stalin, for this reason: as I see it, there would be no Stalin without Lenin.
 
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