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Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or Keep the faith until the end?

Spiritual Jew

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Let's begin with the basics. Before discussing the concept of losing salvation, it is important to understand how salvation is obtained.


  • Salvation is a gift, not a reward. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
  • Humans can't earn salvation through good works or faithfulness. (Titus 3:5)
  • We cannot come to Christ on our own; it is God and the Holy Spirit who change our hearts to repent and believe in Christ. (Romans 8:7, Galatians 5:17, John 6:44)
  • Once we believe in Christ, we are born again. (1 Peter 1:23)
  • Being saved makes us children of God. (John 1:12-13)
It looks like you are a Calvinist. Is that correct?

We have to choose to accept the gospel that we hear (faith comes by hearing the word of God - Romans 10:17) and we need to choose whether to embrace or resist the Holy Spirit's promptings on our hearts. The unbelieving Jews that Stephen rebuked resisted the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Do you think that God didn't want those Jews to repent and believe in Christ?

Can you please answer my questions that I asked you? I'll post them again.

So, you didn't put your faith in Jesus Christ in order to be granted salvation? Do you not agree with how Paul and Silas answered the jailer's question about what he had to do in order to be saved? Should they instead have told him there's nothing he had to do to be saved?

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Just a quick question , did you choose God, or did God choose you?
He chooses those who choose to humble themselves before Him and He punishes those who choose not to follow Him and His ways.

Joshua 24:14 “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

Isaiah 65:12 “But as for you who forsake the Lord and forget my holy mountain, who spread a table for Fortune and fill bowls of mixed wine for Destiny, 12 I will destine you for the sword, and all of you will fall in the slaughter; for I called but you did not answer, I spoke but you did not listen. You did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”

Isaiah 66:1
This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? 2 Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?” declares the Lord. “These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word. 3 But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog’s neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig’s blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations; 4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring on them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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It looks like you are a Calvinist. Is that correct?

We have to choose to accept the gospel that we hear (faith comes by hearing the word of God - Romans 10:17) and we need to choose whether to embrace or resist the Holy Spirit's promptings on our hearts. The unbelieving Jews that Stephen rebuked resisted the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51 You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

Do you think that God didn't want those Jews to repent and believe in Christ?

Can you please answer my questions that I asked you? I'll post them again.

So, you didn't put your faith in Jesus Christ in order to be granted salvation? Do you not agree with how Paul and Silas answered the jailer's question about what he had to do in order to be saved? Should they instead have told him there's nothing he had to do to be saved?

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Yes, I am a Calvinist who believes in TULIP.

We cannot choose God due to our fallen nature that rejects Him. It is solely through God's grace that we are chosen. There is nothing I have done to merit His grace, and there is nothing inherent in me that would seek God. Only through His grace and mercy has God provided us with understanding and transformed us to accept His Son.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I am not ignoring scripture, but we cannot create doctrine by taking verses out of context. The Bible was not written for verses to be used this way. When the author wrote Hebrews, he did not create a doctrine from one verse in the middle. Likewise, Paul did not write to Timothy without context. For systematic study, we must consider verses within the context of their chapters.

To conduct a thorough discussion of a verse in Hebrew, it is essential to consider the entire chapter, or possibly the preceding and following chapters, to fully understand the context of the author's message. Analyzing a single verse without its surrounding context does not align with the way the Bible was intended to be studied.
Again you still can’t explain the verse. This is the fourth time I’ve asked what does it mean and all you can do is say we have to examine the context of the whole chapter then you don’t explain anything at all. And the video I sent you is me explaining the context of the chapter as well as the context of the passage that Paul is quoting because 2 Timothy 2:12 is Paul quoting Jesus’ words from Matthew 10:32-33 in which I also explain that chapter as well. Your whole argument seems to be revolving around the problem that you can’t explain what the verse means but it certainly can’t mean what it appears to be saying. If you’re going to insist on examining context then demonstrate that ability and explain the context.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Again you still can’t explain the verse. This is the fourth time I’ve asked what does it mean and all you can do is say we have to examine the context of the whole chapter then you don’t explain anything at all. And the video I sent you is me explaining the context of the chapter as well as the context of the passage that Paul is quoting because 2 Timothy 2:12 is Paul quoting Jesus’ words from Matthew 10:32-33 in which I also explain that chapter as well. Your whole argument seems to be revolving around the problem that you can’t explain what the verse means but it certainly can’t mean what it appears to be saying. If you’re going to insist on examining context then demonstrate that ability and explain the context.

Neither of the chapters is about salvation and there after. Selecting and interpreting Bible verses from various places does not constitute a coherent biblical doctrine.

In Matthew 10, Jesus sent out 12 disciples. Many people rejected them, and those who rejected the gospel will not enter everlasting life. We both agree on that.

Where we disagree is that you think after some one accept Christ , they have to continue believing in Christ or they will lose salvation. Where I and those who believe in OSAS, we believe once your accept Christ there is no condemnation ( John 3:18). We became children of God. nothing can separate us from Him.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Neither of the chapters is about salvation and there after. Selecting and interpreting Bible verses from various places does not constitute a coherent biblical doctrine.

In Matthew 10, Jesus sent out 12 disciples. Many people rejected them, and those who rejected the gospel will not enter everlasting life. We both agree on that.

Where we disagree is that you think after some one accept Christ , they have to continue believing in Christ or they will lose salvation. Where I and those who believe in OSAS, we believe once your accept Christ there is no condemnation ( John 3:18). We became children of God. nothing can separate us from Him.
Right so once you believe you’re free to rape, murder, worship satan, curse God, and do anything you want and you’ll be saved. I also addressed this in the video as well. It sounds very familiar. “Surely you will not die”.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Neither of the chapters is about salvation and there after. Selecting and interpreting Bible verses from various places does not constitute a coherent biblical doctrine.

In Matthew 10, Jesus sent out 12 disciples. Many people rejected them, and those who rejected the gospel will not enter everlasting life. We both agree on that.

Where we disagree is that you think after some one accept Christ , they have to continue believing in Christ or they will lose salvation. Where I and those who believe in OSAS, we believe once your accept Christ there is no condemnation ( John 3:18). We became children of God. nothing can separate us from Him.
So neither Matthew 10 or 2 Timothy are about salvation. Can you please explain to me why Jesus told His 12 apostles “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul, but fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” This has nothing to do with salvation? Or what about verses 32-33 the verses that Paul was quoting in 2 Timothy 2:12? “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven, but everyone who denies Me before men, I will deny before My Father who is in heaven”. Nothing to do with salvation here either huh? All explained in the video.

So this is the fifth time you’ve refused to give any explanation of what 2 Timothy 2:12 DOES MEAN. Stop telling me what it doesn’t mean and tell me WHAT IT DOES MEAN. Can you do that?
 
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DaveM

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Philippians 2:12

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

I have always looked at this verse as the exact opposite of osas, osas would be more like rest assured and do not worry you are saved. but this says fear and trembling, suggesting do not get to comfortable, you could end up taking it for granted I think the issue is maybe.

Hard to say one way or another as we have other versus that are very comforting about our salvation, that right there is something to get excited about !!


Ephesians 1:13-14

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Yes, I am a Calvinist who believes in TULIP.

We cannot choose God due to our fallen nature that rejects Him.
Where does scripture teach this?

If that was the case then why does no one have any excuse for not glorifying Him as God and being thankful to Him?

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

It is solely through God's grace that we are chosen. There is nothing I have done to merit His grace, and there is nothing inherent in me that would seek God. Only through His grace and mercy has God provided us with understanding and transformed us to accept His Son.
If God graciously offers us salvation by way of the sacrifice of His Son and requires us to humbly choose to accept by believing in His Son as our Lord and Savior while acknowledging our sins and acknowledging that we cannot save ourselves, is that a case of us doing something to merit His grace?

What would you tell someone if they asked you what they needed to do to be saved?
 
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Sam91

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I'm not sure of my stance on this. I am sure that God will hold us in His hand and not let us fall but what if we sin, ignore Him, sear our consciences and jump. It would be a mockery to say they are saved. Easy to say they were never saved.

However, Jesus gave the parable of the sower. Rather than say it was a fake faith wouldn't those people be the ones who receive the Gospel with joy only for the cares of this world to choke them.
I also feel there wouldn't be so many admonishments and warnings throughout if OSAS was correct. Romans 8 rather assures me that nothing can separate us from the LOVE of God or from Him. But Christ's message to the Churches in Revelation 2 and 3 seems a forceful and beautiful reminder to not grow lukewarm and to persevere to the end. I think it must be both OSAS and enduring faith together. Trust and obey, no turning back, push onwards to receive the prize.

At this point I like to decide Proverbs 3:5-6
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Right so once you believe you’re free to rape, murder, worship satan, curse God, and do anything you want and you’ll be saved. I also addressed this in the video as well. It sounds very familiar. “Surely you will not die”.

Let me ask you few questions

Are you born-again Christian, or are you waiting to become born-again at the end of your life when Jesus evaluates whether you have believed in him?

Are you saved by grace, or waiting to be saved after a lifelong belief in Jesus?

Did Jesus pay the penalty for your sins, or does it happen later in life, contingent upon lifelong belief in him?

What distinguishes you from someone who hasn't accepted Christ?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Let me ask you few questions

Are you born-again Christian, or are you waiting to become born-again at the end of your life when Jesus evaluates whether you have believed in him?

Are you saved by grace, or waiting to be saved after a lifelong belief in Jesus?

Did Jesus pay the penalty for your sins, or does it happen later in life, contingent upon lifelong belief in him?

What distinguishes you from someone who hasn't accepted Christ?
Again you still refuse to answer one simple question despite me asking it 5 times now. This is the sixth time I’m asking you what does 2 Timothy 2:12 mean? Just admit that you don’t know what it means. The reason you can’t understand it is because it doesn’t line up with your theology and you’re unwilling to admit that.

Yes I’m born again.

Yes I’m saved by grace. If I were to die right now I would go to heaven even tho I don’t deserve it. But I can at any moment in my life renounce Christ and turn to unbelief which will result in condemnation.

Yes Jesus paid for my sins, does Revelation 20 and Romans 14 not say that everyone will stand before the judgment seat of Christ?

What distinguishes me from someone who has not accepted Christ is that I have received the Holy Spirit and have a
 
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enoob57

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As I read through this thread, I realized the need to identify what saves us -the actual nuts and bolts of redemption:
God sacrificed Himself in the Person of Jesus to make a way for everyone to be saved.... so, what work or element of this creation equals God? OR better what lack is there in God so that something else is necessary?
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Again you still refuse to answer one simple question despite me asking it 5 times now. This is the sixth time I’m asking you what does 2 Timothy 2:12 mean? Just admit that you don’t know what it means. The reason you can’t understand it is because it doesn’t line up with your theology and you’re unwilling to admit that.

Yes I’m born again.

Yes I’m saved by grace. If I were to die right now I would go to heaven even tho I don’t deserve it. But I can at any moment in my life renounce Christ and turn to unbelief which will result in condemnation.

Yes Jesus paid for my sins, does Revelation 20 and Romans 14 not say that everyone will stand before the judgment seat of Christ?

What distinguishes me from someone who has not accepted Christ is that I have received the Holy Spirit and have a

As I have mentioned many times, there is no verse in the Bible that states someone can lose their salvation. Continually bringing up certain verses out of context and repeatedly asking "What does this mean? Answer me." will not change my perspective. I will reiterate, there is no verse in the Bible that states someone can lose their salvation.

It is sad to hear that you claim to be born again, a new creation, and say Jesus paid the penalty of your , yet you have no assurance that you will enter eternal life. At any moment, you can choose to unbelieve Christ or deny him, and your fate will be the same as someone who never knew Christ.

I am also a born-again, a new creation, the Father, who has qualified me to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered me from the domain of darkness and transferred me to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom I have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. My salvation is secure in the hands of the Son of God, and nothing can separate me from Him. Even I can’t remove myself from His hand
 
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BNR32FAN

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As I have mentioned many times, there is no verse in the Bible that states someone can lose their salvation. Continually bringing up certain verses out of context and repeatedly asking "What does this mean? Answer me." will not change my perspective. I will reiterate, there is no verse in the Bible that states someone can lose their salvation.

It is sad to hear that you claim to be born again, a new creation, and say Jesus paid the penalty of your , yet you have no assurance that you will enter eternal life. At any moment, you can choose to unbelieve Christ or deny him, and your fate will be the same as someone who never knew Christ.

I am also a born-again, a new creation, the Father, who has qualified me to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. He has delivered me from the domain of darkness and transferred me to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom I have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. My salvation is secure in the hands of the Son of God, and nothing can separate me from Him. Even I can’t remove myself from His hand
No what you’re doing is ignoring the passages that prove you wrong. 2 Timothy 2:12 isn’t the only verse, there are numerous other passages that indicate that saved people can lose their salvation. James 5:19-20 Galatians 5:4 Romans 11:17-23 John 15:1-7 are just a few examples.

The fact that you keep on claiming that 2 Timothy 2:12 doesn’t say that Paul or Timothy could lose their salvation when it clearly states “If we deny Him, He will deny us” and you’ve repeatedly refused to explain what that statement does mean even tho I’ve asked you six times now absolutely 100% without a doubt proves that you are in fact ignoring it. If you weren’t ignoring it you would offer some kind of explanation, even if it’s wrong, but you repeatedly refuse to give any kind of explanation whatsoever. How is that not ignoring it?
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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No what you’re doing is ignoring the passages that prove you wrong. 2 Timothy 2:12 isn’t the only verse, there are numerous other passages that indicate that saved people can lose their salvation. James 5:19-20 Galatians 5:4 Romans 11:17-23 John 15:1-7 are just a few examples.

The fact that you keep on claiming that 2 Timothy 2:12 doesn’t say that Paul or Timothy could lose their salvation when it clearly states “If we deny Him, He will deny us” and you’ve repeatedly refused to explain what that statement does mean even tho I’ve asked you six times now absolutely 100% without a doubt proves that you are in fact ignoring it. If you weren’t ignoring it you would offer some kind of explanation, even if it’s wrong, but you repeatedly refuse to give any kind of explanation whatsoever. How is that not ignoring it?

As I have stated previously, there is no verse in the Bible that discusses losing salvation. Repeating the same argument will not alter this fact.
 
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Mercy Shown

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People struggle with OSAS because they sometimes overlook how we are saved at first. Whether you believe in Arminian theology, which says salvation can be lost, or Calvinist theology, which believes salvation is eternal, both agree that salvation is a gift from God.

When I received the gift of salvation, it was not something I earned. Both sides agree that salvation is given by the grace of God rather than as reward. Therefore, if salvation cannot be earned through good works, faithfulness, or righteousness, how can it be lost through one's actions?
People struggle with OSAS because they sometimes overlook how we are saved at first. Whether you believe in Arminian theology, which says salvation can be lost, or Calvinist theology, which believes salvation is eternal, both agree that salvation is a gift from God.

When I received the gift of salvation, it was not something I earned. Both sides agree that salvation is given by the grace of God rather than as reward. Therefore, if salvation cannot be earned through good works, faithfulness, or righteousness, how can it be lost through one's actions?
OSAS seems to be unrelated to grace as a free gift. In fact, is it a gift if it can’t be rejected? If I am coerced, even without knowing it, to receive an object. Is that object a gift?
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, I am a Calvinist who believes in TULIP.

We cannot choose God due to our fallen nature that rejects Him
And yet - God supernaturally "Draws ALL MANKIND to Him" John 12:32
And as John 16 reminds us - the supernatural drawing of God - enables all the free-will choice that depravity disables.

And so "ALL" are drawn - all are enable - but not all will accept as Matt 7 reminds us.

Not sure how this topic got turned around to this point.
But I will admit one thing, the only logical framework for OSAS is found inside of Calvinism. Outside of Calvinism, support for OSAS is tenuous at best.
 
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BobRyan

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OSAS seems to be unrelated to grace as a free gift.
True.

Grace is a free gift in both Arminian and Calvinist models for salvation

If my child came home and said "I met a man today who gave me 1 million dollars. Look here it is in my hands"

I would not say "well you apparently accepted the gift, opened your hand and took it - so it is not a gift you earned it". That would be total nonsense.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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As I have stated previously, there is no verse in the Bible that discusses losing salvation. Repeating the same argument will not alter this fact.
Have you never read these verses...

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Romans 11:20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[a] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

James 5:19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
 
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