Can Salvation be lost?

[Bible Highlighter]

I think we need to be careful here. It would be wrong for a Christian to say, "Hooray! I am saved! Now I can live how I like, sin as much as I want to!" Yet at the same time, Christians do fall into sin even after they have become Christians, but they don't justify their sin; they confess it to God and seek His forgiveness.

Yes, this is what they should do, but it simply is not my experience when talking with many of them. Kerigan Skelly and his ministry is one of the few out there who preaches repentance. You just don't hear that nowadays. If they are for living a holy life, then chances are they may be for the false idea of going back to the Laws of Moses like keeping Sabbath or something like that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think we need to be careful here. It would be wrong for a Christian to say, "Hooray! I am saved! Now I can live how I like, sin as much as I want to!" Yet at the same time, Christians do fall into sin even after they have become Christians, but they don't justify their sin; they confess it to God and seek His forgiveness.

2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Christians tend to avoid verses like this in the Bible and they prefer to quote 1 John 1:8 from a sin focused perspective. Christians can sin, and they can struggle with it, but I believe they should in time overcome it in this life by the power of God (See 1 Peter 4:1-2 KJV). They need to sanctify their vessel that should be fit for the Master's use.

1 John 1:8 is actually a warning about the gnostic who denies sin's existence or they think sin is an illusion (like Christian Scientists believe). Many believers think their future sins are forgiven them, which means there is no need to live holy if that is the case. Most Christians today use 1 John 1:8 as a banner flag in that they cannot ever escape sin and they must sin again at some unknown future date (Which is wrong). They need to repent.

Christians will quote the corrupted translations that say that there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus in Romans 8:1. Little do they realize that words are chopped out of their translation that says that the condition of not being under any condemnation is to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. I heard it too many times by Christians today. But they do not want to listen. They like their sin and still be saved belief, despite what verses you show them.

 

[David Lamb]

2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
Christians tend to avoid verses like this in the Bible and they prefer to quote 1 John 1:8 from a sin focused perspective. Christians can sin, and they can struggle with it, but I believe they should in time overcome it in this life by the power of God. They need to sanctify their vessel that should be fit for the Master's use.

1 John 1:8 is actually a warning about the gnostic who denies sin's existence or they think sin is an illusion (like Christian Scientists believe). Many believers think their future sins are forgiven them, which means there is no need to live holy if that is the case. Most Christians today use 1 John 1:8 as a banner flag to day that they cannot ever escape sin and they must sin again at some unknown future date (Which is wrong). They need to repent.

I agree with your first paragraph, well, most of it. Sanctification is important, that is, becoming (with God's help) more and more as He wants us to be, and sinning less and less. We won't be completely sinless in this life. Even the apostle Paul wrote:

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)

How do you know that 1 John 1:8 is a warning about the gnostic who denies sin's existence? I have just looked at 10 commentaries on the verse, and not one of them even mentions gnostic beliefs. The verse says, "If we say that we have no sin," not "If we say that there is no such thing as sin."

 

[Carl Emerson]

Many believers think their future sins are forgiven them, which means there is no need to live holy if that is the case.

Can't say I have met any - maybe it is common the the US.

I can't imagine any serious believer having that attitude.

We believe the Cross was a timeless event spanning History past and present, but that does not diminish our passion for being Holy in any way.

 

[David Lamb]

Can't say I have met any - maybe it is common the the US.

I can't imagine any serious believer having that attitude.

We believe the Cross was a timeless event spanning History past and present, but that does not diminish our passion for being Holy in any way.

I agree, and I certainly don't see the forgiveness of sins as any excuse for not seeking to live a holy life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I agree with your first paragraph, well, most of it. Sanctification is important, that is, becoming (with God's help) more and more as He wants us to be, and sinning less and less. We won't be completely sinless in this life. Even the apostle Paul wrote:

Then you don't believe verses like:

1 Peter 4:1-2 (KJV) that says:
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)

Ah, here we go. You are defending sin as a follower of Christ?
See, this is what I am talking about.
Paul is not speaking as a Christian here, but he is speaking in the historic present.
See Historical present - Wikipedia
Paul is speaking about his past experience as a Jew before he was a Christian.
This is the case because of all of the references to the Old Law (that we are no longer under as a contract anymore).
Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentile Christians do not have to be circumcised and to keep the laws of Moses.
This means we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath. Paul said to the Galatians that he was afraid for them because they kept days, months, and years. So, the ceremonial and judicial aspects of the Old Law are no more. The Moral law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet) have continued into the New Covenant. Both Jesus and Paul taught that we have to obey the Moral Law of loving your brother or neighbor and loving God. The reason why Paul struggled with sin before is because he was under the Old Law system without Jesus Christ to help him overcome. So if somebody thinks they are under the Old Law they will not overcome sin. The same is true for sin and still be saved type Christians. If a Christian believes they must sin again (justifying sin),of course they will never overcome sin by the power of God because they do not believe verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2 plainly like a child. It must be twisted because it does not fit what they desire.

How do you know that 1 John 1:8 is a warning about the gnostic who denies sin's existence? I have just looked at 10 commentaries on the verse, and not one of them even mentions gnostic beliefs. The verse says, "If we say that we have no sin," not "If we say that there is no such thing as sin."

Man's desire to sin is strong. So of course most are for justifying how believers must sin again involving their interpretation
on 1 John 1:8.

Watch this video by Kerrigan Skelly instead:

He explains it in context.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Think. Why all the warnings like with the Sheep and Goats, and the Parable of the Talents if it is all God forcing you to be saved?
Your position doesn't make any sense.
It may be comforting, but it simply is not true when you look at the whole counsel of God’s Word (and you know it).
Be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Yet, I hear most Christians who believe in Eternal Security state (using other words) they can live like the devil and be saved.
Sorry, it just doesn’t work like that and you know that deep down (See: Matthew 13:41-42).

Sadly you miss the basic point.

"It is by Grace that you are saved - not of yourself - it is a gift of God. Not of works - so no one can boast..."

You use of the word forcing is inappropriate. His Love attracts us and draws us to Him - there is no 'forcing'

As to if this fits with the whole council of God's Word - of course.

As to suggesting this is a ticket to do evil - the reverse is true - True believers are loving righteousness.

Contrary to your assertion deep down I rejoice and celebrate the great undeserved GIFT of life in this age and eternity to come.

Daily we walk in His works and see His power and love at work though and with us.

I invite you to come on a video conference with me and hear testimony of how His power and love is working with us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Then you don't believe verses like:

1 Peter 4:1-2 (KJV) that says:
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."


Ah, here we go. You are defending sin as a follower of Christ?
See, this is what I am talking about.
Paul is not speaking as a Christian here, but he is speaking in the historic present.
See Historical present - Wikipedia
Paul is speaking about his past experience as a Jew before he was a Christian.
This is the case because of all of the references to the Old Law (that we are no longer under as a contract anymore).
Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentile Christians do not have to be circumcised and to keep the laws of Moses.
This means we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath. Paul said to the Galatians that he was afraid for them because they kept days, months, and years. So, the ceremonial and judicial aspects of the Old Law are no more. The Moral law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet) have continued into the New Covenant. Both Jesus and Paul taught that we have to obey the Moral Law of loving your brother or neighbor and loving God. The reason why Paul struggled with sin before is because he was under the Old Law system without Jesus Christ to help him overcome. So if somebody thinks they are under the Old Law they will not overcome sin. The same is true for sin and still be saved type Christians. If a Christian believes they must sin again (justifying sin),of course they will never overcome sin by the power of God because they do not believe verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2 plainly like a child. It must be twisted because it does not fit what they desire.



Man's desire to sin is strong. So of course most are for justifying how believers must sin again involving their interpretation
on 1 John 1:8.

Watch this video by Kerrigan Skelly instead:

He explains it in context.

We used to assess celebrity speakers by if they helped with the dishes after the meeting.

 

[Bro.T]

Having been in a state where I couldn't 'get up off the table' before returning to Faith, I know it is all of Grace.

The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

 

[Carl Emerson]

The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

Agreed but the motivation needs to be from His love not our effort.

 

[David Lamb]

Then you don't believe verses like:

1 Peter 4:1-2 (KJV) that says:
"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."

I do believe it, but I don't believe that Peter is saying we shall be sinless in this life.

Ah, here we go. You are defending sin as a follower of Christ?

No I am not defending sin. There is a great difference between saying that we will not be perfectly sinless in this life, and defending sin.

See, this is what I am talking about.
Paul is not speaking as a Christian here, but he is speaking in the historic present.
See Historical present - Wikipedia
Paul is speaking about his past experience as a Jew before he was a Christian.

I am no Greek expert, but I looked up the verses, and found from Greek lexicons that the verbs Paul uses are in the indicative mood. That is described as "a simple statement of fact."

This is the case because of all of the references to the Old Law (that we are no longer under as a contract anymore).
Acts 15 makes it clear that Gentile Christians do not have to be circumcised and to keep the laws of Moses.
This means we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath. Paul said to the Galatians that he was afraid for them because they kept days, months, and years. So, the ceremonial and judicial aspects of the Old Law are no more.

I agree that we are no longer under the ceremonial law.

The Moral law (like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet) have continued into the New Covenant. Both Jesus and Paul taught that we have to obey the Moral Law of loving your brother or neighbor and loving God. The reason why Paul struggled with sin before is because he was under the Old Law system without Jesus Christ to help him overcome. So if somebody thinks they are under the Old Law they will not overcome sin. The same is true for sin and still be saved type Christians. If a Christian believes they must sin again (justifying sin),of course they will never overcome sin by the power of God because they do not believe verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2 plainly like a child. It must be twisted because it does not fit what they desire.



Man's desire to sin is strong. So of course most are for justifying how believers must sin again involving their interpretation
on 1 John 1:8.

Watch this video by Kerrigan Skelly instead:

He explains it in context.

 

[Bro.T]

Agreed but the motivation needs to be from His love not our effort.

Keeping God’s holy laws separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sadly you miss the basic point.

"It is by Grace that you are saved - not of yourself - it is a gift of God. Not of works - so no one can boast..."

Looking at the whole counsel of God's Word, we know that this is in light of the false heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism”. If you were to read Acts 15, Paul and the others talked about how Christians do not have to be circumcised to be saved and to keep the Laws of Moses. So, it is talking about Initial Salvation because a certain sect of Jews was trying to convince Christians to be circumcised. We see hints of this in Paul's writings of the false belief of "Circumcision Salvationism".

1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
5. 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)
6. Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
7. Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
8. Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”

I mean stop and think a moment. If you believed you had to be circumcised to be initially saved, then that would mean you are making Works ALONE the basis of your salvation. Paul is saying that we must first be saved by God's grace in Ephesians 2. It refers to "Initial Salvation".

Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (made alive). How many times does that happen? One time, right? In our Initial Salvation.
It says we are saved by God's grace and it is the gift of God in Ephesians 2:8. How many times do you receive a gift? Just one time. So this again is referring to when you first get saved. Paul says elsewhere that you have to sow to the Spirit to reap life everlasting and this sowing to the Spirit is defined as "well doing" good works. We are encouraged to faint not in "well doing." (See: Galatians 6:8-9). Also, in 1 Timothy 5:8, we are told if we do not provide for our own, we are worse than an infidel. Providing for your own takes hard work many times. Paul says if you provide not for your own, you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever). Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever. But of course, I know you will try to do backflip twists and deceive yourself on such plain verses in Scripture.

You use of the word forcing is inappropriate. His Love attracts us and draws us to Him - there is no 'forcing'

As to if this fits with the whole council of God's Word - of course.

As to suggesting this is a ticket to do evil - the reverse is true - True believers are loving righteousness.

Contrary to your assertion deep down I rejoice and celebrate the great undeserved GIFT of life in this age and eternity to come.

Daily we walk in His works and see His power and love at work though and with us.

I invite you to come on a video conference with me and hear testimony of how His power and love is working with us.

I am sorry, but you simply do not understand how things work. If there is no free will component involved in any way, then it is forced salvation. Forced salvation or forced love is not love. You can say, that love attracts you all you like, but if there is no free will component to turn away from God at any point, then that suggests God is forcing us in some way. Generally, Scripture talks about how men are fallen and sinful, and it takes a new birth and Sanctification to overcome this fallen nature.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I do believe it, but I don't believe that Peter is saying we shall be sinless in this life.

But that is what Peter is plainly saying. So no. You don't believe the passage because you reject the plain and obvious meaning. If it said you would win a million dollars today, you would believe it because it serves your interests. Seeing that this passage is against what you believe, you are going to reject it and try to come up with some kind of oddball interpretation to explain it away.

No I am not defending sin.

Yes, you are. If you reject 1 Peter 4:1-2, and you have the false sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8, that is exactly what you are doing, whether you like that fact or not.

There is a great difference between saying that we will not be perfectly sinless in this life, and defending sin.

But if the Bible is teaching that you are to repent and turn away from sin and overcome it, and you fight against the idea that you can overcome sin, and you must go back to your vomit again, then you are defending sin (Whether you realize that fact or not).

I am no Greek expert, but I looked up the verses, and found from Greek lexicons that the verbs Paul uses are in the indicative mood. That is described as "a simple statement of fact."

I agree that we are no longer under the ceremonial law.

You can also use ChatGPT to help explain the Greek. Ask it to defend the Greek in both viewpoints (your viewpoint, and my viewpoint), and ask it which one is more sound to Greek, and the English translations.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We used to assess celebrity speakers by if they helped with the dishes after the meeting.

Again, not related to 1 Peter 4:1-2. Read the passage. If you believe it over the lies you have been fed from your church, it will change your world. But I know you and many others simply do not like this passage and it must be changed because it does not fit your belief.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Looking at the whole counsel of God's Word, we know that this is in light of the false heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism”. If you were to read Acts 15, Paul and the others talked about how Christians do not have to be circumcised to be saved and to keep the Laws of Moses. So, it is talking about Initial Salvation because a certain sect of Jews was trying to convince Christians to be circumcised. We see hints of this in Paul's writings of the false belief of "Circumcision Salvationism".

1. Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
2. Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
3. Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
4. Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
5. 1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB)
6. Romans 2:28-29 says, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
7. Romans 3:1 says, “What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?”
8. Romans 4:9-12 says, ”9 “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.”

I mean stop and think a moment. If you believed you had to be circumcised to be initially saved, then that would mean you are making Works ALONE the basis of your salvation. Paul is saying that we must first be saved by God's grace in Ephesians 2. It refers to "Initial Salvation".

Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (made alive). How many times does that happen? One time, right? In our Initial Salvation.
It says we are saved by God's grace and it is the gift of God in Ephesians 2:8. How many times do you receive a gift? Just one time. So this again is referring to when you first get saved. Paul says elsewhere that you have to sow to the Spirit to reap life everlasting and this sowing to the Spirit is defined as "well doing" good works. We are encouraged to faint not in "well doing." (See: Galatians 6:8-9). Also, in 1 Timothy 5:8, we are told if we do not provide for our own, we are worse than an infidel. Providing for your own takes hard work many times. Paul says if you provide not for your own, you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever). Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever. But of course, I know you will try to do backflip twists and deceive yourself on such plain verses in Scripture.



I am sorry, but you simply do not understand how things work. If there is no free will component involved in any way, then it is forced salvation. Forced salvation or forced love is not love. You can say, that love attracts you all you like, but if there is no free will component to turn away from God at any point, then that suggests God is forcing us in some way. Generally, Scripture talks about how men are fallen and sinful, and it takes a new birth and Sanctification to overcome this fallen nature.

We disagree on this it seems...

How do you understand this... ???
=================================

The Purpose of the Parables​

10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that

“‘they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.’”
=================================

Are you suggesting "those outside" had the opportunity to believe ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We disagree on this it seems...

How do you understand this... ???
=================================

The Purpose of the Parables​

10 And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. 11 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that

“‘they may indeed see but not perceive,
and may indeed hear but not understand,
lest they should turn and be forgiven.’”
=================================

Are you suggesting "those outside" had the opportunity to believe ?

Yes, I am suggesting that "those outside" had an opportunity to believe—but they hardened themselves, and God responded by giving them over to spiritual blindness, just as He had warned would happen (see Romans 1:21–24; Hebrews 3:7–13). The parables were not meant to create unbelief, but to judge ongoing unbelief by concealing deeper truths from those who refused to receive the light they already had.

Jesus quoted Isaiah 6:9–10 here, which speaks of a rebellious people who chose not to hear or see. It says:

“Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.”

This isn’t describing people who wanted to turn to God but were unable—it’s the opposite. It’s judgment on those who repeatedly resisted the truth. God is not arbitrarily withholding salvation; rather, He’s honoring their rejection by darkening their understanding. That’s consistent with Jesus’ lament in (Matthew 23:37):

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem… how often would I have gathered thy children together… and ye would not!”

God desires all men to repent (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:4), but many choose not to. The parables are a form of divine justice—not divine favoritism—against those who love darkness rather than light (John 3:19). So yes, "those outside" had a chance. But in rejecting God's offer of repentance, they lost the privilege of further light.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes, I am suggesting that "those outside" had an opportunity to believe—but they hardened themselves, and God responded by giving them over to spiritual blindness, just as He had warned would happen (see Romans 1:21–24; Hebrews 3:7–13). The parables were not meant to create unbelief, but to judge ongoing unbelief by concealing deeper truths from those who refused to receive the light they already had.

Jesus quoted Isaiah 6:9–10 here, which speaks of a rebellious people who chose not to hear or see. It says:

“Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.”

This isn’t describing people who wanted to turn to God but were unable—it’s the opposite. It’s judgment on those who repeatedly resisted the truth. God is not arbitrarily withholding salvation; rather, He’s honoring their rejection by darkening their understanding. That’s consistent with Jesus’ lament in (Matthew 23:37):

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem… how often would I have gathered thy children together… and ye would not!”

God desires all men to repent (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:4), but many choose not to. The parables are a form of divine justice—not divine favoritism—against those who love darkness rather than light (John 3:19). So yes, "those outside" had a chance. But in rejecting God's offer of repentance, they lost the privilege of further light.

Are you comfortable with the lyrics of 'Amazing Grace" ???

1. Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
   That saved a wretch like me!
   I once was lost, but now am found;
   Was blind, but now I see.
2. ’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
   And grace my fears relieved;
   How precious did that grace appear
   The hour I first believed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

While BH is thinking about if he will consider John Newton deceived, I would like to remind folks of John's gospel stating clearly that the will of man does not contribute to rebirth.

We see this in the conversion of Paul who was chosen long before He was born again.

God's will prevailed in his conversion - Pauls will was surrendered, overcome... (unless you believe he wanted to be blind for a while.)

So maybe we need to think more about what rebirth is all about.

For me it is about a total surrender of the will to God.

 

[HIM]

We won't be completely sinless in this life. Even the apostle Paul wrote:

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)

Paul speaks of his deliverance from that in chapter 8