I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

[Clare73]

When the tares of the field are burned do they suffer forever or are they returned to their previous state of growth material but not seed? If you were told at resurrection you were not worthy of the Kingdom but only a second death from which there is no reprieve, ever, no more resurrection into life, would that not be an eternal punishment? Does it have to include the human lust for torment?

I'm sure you'll understand if I believe Jesus' words in Mt 25:46:
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
rather than your personal heresy.

Certainly, but the definition of eternal punishment is at odds.

Those two words are clear enough to give me dread.

You can sort out the details. . .I've heard all I need to hear to know I ain't interested!

Only fallen unbelieving man could think there was any wiggle room in "eternal punishment" spoken by a just God.

 

[timothyu]

Those two words are clear enough to give me dread.

I understand but if taken ot be no second chances at a second resurrection, but finality, exist no more, then it is still a punishment and eternal. God rewards the good with a second life, not the bad so that they may suffer.

 

[Clare73]

I understand but if taken ot be no second chances at a second resurrection, but finality, exist no more, then it is still a punishment and eternal. God rewards the good with a second life, not the bad so that they may suffer.

They have to be alive to suffer.

 

[timothyu]

They have to be alive to suffer.

Right.. hence not alive after second death and disposal in the lake. Eternally punished, not eternal suffering.

 

[Clare73]

Right.. hence not alive after second death and disposal in the lake. Eternally punished, not eternal suffering.

To punish is to inflict pain or loss.
Eternal punishment is eternal pain.
One must be alive to experience pain.

 

[Jipsah]

So you want to do evil and be rewarded by eternal life in Heaven?
God is good and therefore He must punish all evil.

Yeah buddy, I'll bet if God would just put you in charge of hell you'd make a sinner like me pay, wouldn't ya? "Think i's hot now, sinner-boy? Let's just see how you like it turned up to Eleven! Wanna sip of water? Oops! I dropped it! Toooo baaaad! " You'd probably spend all you time up in the grandstands, laughing and hollering while the tormented scream in agony. That's when you'll experience the real fun of being amongst the unco righteous.

And not loving is evil.

I'm totally feeling the love there, matey.

 

[timothyu]

To punish is to inflict pain or loss.

Exactly and the hope of pain aside, that loss is no more chances at repentance or life of any kind. Humans were never granted eternal life. At the time of resurrection not everyone will still be granted eternal life. Only those of the Kingdom. The rest have had their only reward and will live no more.

 

[Jipsah]

To punish is to inflict pain or loss.
Eternal punishment is eternal pain.
One must be alive to experience pain

So once again we're back to God As Merciless Fiend. "Look, there's old man Chang writhing in the flames. Pretty good old boy by human standards, but he thought Christianity was just another weird foreign religion. so the insignificant Korean farmer's gonna be tortured here for all all eternity as a tribute to God's unalloyed hatred for most of humanity.

 

[timothyu]

"

I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom"​

Is this the result of the new inclusion movement by any chance?

 

[Der Alte]

Not yet he wasn't. If people remain in Hell forever then all of the verses that I provided in my OP are wrong. Right?

Many of your "proof texts" are out-of-context.

Please read the following and then ask yourself, does this sound like a being that created souls knowing that he would torture them, let alone forever?
1 John 4:7-21

English Standard Version​

God Is Love​

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 [but Anyone who does not love does not know God,] because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us,["Us" always means Christians not the whole world] that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we [we, Christians not the whole world] might live through him. ["might" not "shall."] 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us [if we do not love one another, God does NOT abide in us] and his love is perfected in us. [And His love is not perfected in us]
13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. [Whoever does not confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God does not abide in him, and he not in God]16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. [God is love, and whoever does NOT abide in love does not abide in God, and God does not abide in him.]

 

[Der Alte]

I believe these scriptures are clear about that. Am I misunderstanding?

Yes you are.

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

The whole world does NOT include unrepentant criminals, murderers, robbers. thieves etc.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

I wonder why there is a distinction between "all people" and "especially those who believe.?"

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

OUT OF CONTEXT. This was the high priest praying for disobedient Israel..

Lamentations 3:31​

(31) For the Lord will not cast off for ever.​

Lamentations 3:40-43​

(40) Let us [Israel] search and try our [Israel] ways, and return to the LORD.​

(41) Let us [Israel] lift up our [Israel] heart with our [Israel] hands unto God in the heavens.​

(42) We [Israel] have transgressed and have rebelled; Thou hast not pardoned.​

(43) Thou hast covered with anger and pursued us; [Israel] Thou hast slain unsparingly.​

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

All men are direct descendants of and are "in Adam" BUT all men are NOT in Christ unless they repent in this lifetime.

Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God

All flesh will "see" it but NOT experience it.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

There is NO verse which says that all men will "confess with your [their] mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your [their] heart that God raised him from the dead."

2 Samuel 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

See Romans 10:9, above, that means that God devised so that the banished one will not remain an outcast." It is NOT automatic.

Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

See Romans 10:9, above, for the plan that God provided.

John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

See Rom 10;9 for the requirements for sins to be taken away.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Hide trimmed content

You need to read your "proof text" more carefully.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28​

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.​

All mankind are not "in Christ" automatically they must make a decision in this life. Note: "Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ." the first fruits then when Christ returns those who belong to Him, Christ. This verse says nothing about all mankind

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

That's fine if you don't believe in the Hebrew meaning.

You'll have to elaborate. I doubt any of us deny scriptures.

What they mean obviously varies

I do believe the LoF will be eternal for the devil and his messengers

However you might notice sometime that there is not one single named person in the entire Bible shown to be in hell, now or in the future (This is also an official determination of orthodoxy)

 

[Beth77]

The knowledge that Jesus will succeed in his mission must be revealed to one by the Holy Spirit. Christian infernalists cannot overcome Satan's deception without the Holy Spirit's intercession. All the logic and scripture in the world cannot help the infernalist Christian to see the truth without the Holy Spirit.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The knowledge that Jesus will succeed in his mission must be revealed to one by the Holy Spirit. Christian infernalists cannot overcome Satan's deception without the Holy Spirit's intercession. All the logic and scripture in the world cannot help the infernalist Christian to see the truth without the Holy Spirit.

Okay, so "All the logic and scripture in the world cannot help the infernalist Christian to see the truth without the Holy Spirit." Are you implying that the Holy Spirit contradicts logic and scripture?

 

[timothyu]

You'll have to elaborate. I doubt any of us deny scriptures.

No but if the meaning of the word is changed it throws all off track. Satan in Hebrew means adversary. It can apply to anybody.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

God rewards the good with a second life, not the bad so that they may suffer.

I have been studying Scripture for many years, and never read anything close to this most bizarre interpretation.

 

[Der Alte]

Right.. hence not alive after second death and disposal in the lake. Eternally punished, not eternal suffering.

Kolasin vs. 46 is translated eternal in the Eastern Greek Orthodox NT.

Matthew 25:44-46​

(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?​

(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.​

(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:[kolasin]but the righteous into life eternal.​

 

[Der Alte]

The knowledge that Jesus will succeed in his mission must be revealed to one by the Holy Spirit. Christian infernalists cannot overcome Satan's deception without the Holy Spirit's intercession. All the logic and scripture in the world cannot help the infernalist Christian to see the truth without the Holy Spirit.

I studied Hebrew and Greek at the Master's level in the '80s and the Greek word Kolasin is translated "punishment" in Matt 25:46 in the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible

Matthew 25:44-46​

(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?​

(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.​

(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

Also see

Jeremiah 13:13-14​

(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.​

(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, [judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them,​

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, [judgement]Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

When Jesus says "never" He doesn't mean "Someday by and by." Your posts might be more scriptural without the pejorative names

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Yeah buddy, I'll bet if God would just put you in charge of hell you'd make a sinner like me pay, wouldn't ya? "Think i's hot now, sinner-boy? Let's just see how you like it turned up to Eleven! Wanna sip of water? Oops! I dropped it! Toooo baaaad! " You'd probably spend all you time up in the grandstands, laughing and hollering while the tormented scream in agony. That's when you'll experience the real fun of being amongst the unco righteous.

I'm totally feeling the love there, matey.

Romans 5 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

We are all sinners, and the punishment for sin is death and God's wrath.

God showed His love for you by providing a Saviour, who shed His blood on the cross. His blood has the power to pay for every sin for every sinner. But only for those who believe God and accept Him as Saviour. If you reject Him, then you will be justly punished for all your sins. People in hell get what they deserve.

God shows His love for you everyday, every moment of your life. His biggest love He showed for you was in His Son on the cross.

His desire is for you to come to Him and be saved. But that will end one day, and then judgement will come.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

No but if the meaning of the word is changed it throws all off track. Satan in Hebrew means adversary. It can apply to anybody.

Uh, no. Other than heretical positions held in various cults we should know that people are not devils

Nor was Jesus tempted by himself in the desert. He was tempted by Satan, an alien agency