Former Biden diplomat says there’s ‘no question’ that ‘free Palestine’ slogan has become a call for violence

[Oompa Loompa]

I am unsure of what this diplomat said, but Moslems have been calling for the death of Jews since Muhammad.

In all fairness, I do not believe that the Quran or the Hadiths call fornthe killing of Jews. However, many Muslims have interpreted it as such.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

In all fairness, I do not believe that the Quran or the Hadiths call fornthe killing of Jews. However, many Muslims have interpreted it as such.

How do you interpret this from Hadith?

Hadith narrated by Abi Hurira:

"The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only "Gharkad" tree, it is of Jews' trees."

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Is that the same as "Stop the Genocide" or "Free Palestine?


That's a broad brush you're painting all Palestinians with.

Well, maybe not the only reason. Several billions of dollars a year from the US alone helps, as does the wall and blockades.


Hamas was not part of the West Bank yet the settlers have been murdering them for a long time now - they are trying to "clear out" the West Bank as well as Gaza.

What does free Palestine means ?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Is that the same as "Stop the Genocide" or "Free Palestine?

That's a broad brush you're painting all Palestinians with.

Hamas’s original 1988 charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel, stating that "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it" and frames the conflict as a religious duty, advocating for the elimination of Israel through jihad. The charter also references violent hadiths and rejects any peaceful solution or recognition of Israel.

In 2017, Hamas released a new policy document that softened some language, distinguishing between Jews and Zionists and accepting a Palestinian state along 1967 borders as a "formula of national consensus." However, it still rejects the legitimacy of Israel and maintains the goal of "liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea," which includes all of present-day Israel.

The bottom line is that "from the river to the sea" is a softened way of saying "obliterate Israel" according to Hamas' charter.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

How do you interpret this from Hadith?

Hadith narrated by Abi Hurira:

"The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only "Gharkad" tree, it is of Jews' trees."

From what I understand, that is apocalyptic prophecy. Similar to Revelation, it is describing things to come in the last days much like how the Antichrist will slaughter Christ followers. It is not a command to kill Jews.

 

[BCP1928]

Hamas’s original 1988 charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel, stating that "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it" and frames the conflict as a religious duty, advocating for the elimination of Israel through jihad. The charter also references violent hadiths and rejects any peaceful solution or recognition of Israel.

In 2017, Hamas released a new policy document that softened some language, distinguishing between Jews and Zionists and accepting a Palestinian state along 1967 borders as a "formula of national consensus." However, it still rejects the legitimacy of Israel and maintains the goal of "liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea," which includes all of present-day Israel.

The bottom line is that "from the river to the sea" is a softened way of saying "obliterate Israel" according to Hamas' charter.

And...? None of that is exactly breaking news.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

And...? None of that is exactly breaking news.

Yes. And...what's your point?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

From what I understand, that is apocalyptic prophecy. Similar to Revelation, it is describing things to come in the last days much like how the Antichrist will slaughter Christ followers. It is not a command to kill Jews.

I had not considered that perspective, but you make a valid point. However, it is evident that many Muslims do not interpret this verse as you have interpreted it.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes. And...what's your point?

The Arab-Israeli conflict was not, at it's inception, a religious war. However, it seems to be turning into one and with prompting from the Trump administration. What's that about? Criticism of the Netanyahu government's handling of the war is now antisemitism, demonstrating against it is supporting terrorism, even though Jews do both, here and in Israel. Of course Trump has declared those Jews to be "not real Jews" and anti-semites "who hate their religion." There's no need for any of that, and it all seems too contrived. What's our real objective in Israel?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

The Arab-Israeli conflict was not, at it's inception, a religious war. However, it seems to be turning into one and with prompting from the Trump administration. What's that about? Criticism of the Netanyahu government's handling of the war is now antisemitism, demonstrating against it is supporting terrorism, even though Jews do both, here and in Israel. Of course Trump has declared those Jews to be "not real Jews" and anti-semites "who hate their religion." There's no need for any of that, and it all seems too contrived. What's our real objective in Israel?

The Arab-Israeli conflict existed long before President Trump was born. Mentioning the Trump administration is irrelevant to the broader issue.

Criticizing Netanyahu is valid, but many protesters against the Israeli government or the war seem one-sided. I have yet to see a protest condemning Hamas.

 

[DaisyDay]

What does free Palestine means ?

Why ask me? I've never used the slogan nor have I spoken to anyone who has.

 

[DaisyDay]

Hamas’s original 1988 charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel, stating that "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it" and frames the conflict as a religious duty, advocating for the elimination of Israel through jihad. The charter also references violent hadiths and rejects any peaceful solution or recognition of Israel.

Okay, 1988 - nearly 40 years ago. How many of the current residents were even alive back then, let alone old enough to vote?

In 2017, Hamas released a new policy document that softened some language, distinguishing between Jews and Zionists and accepting a Palestinian state along 1967 borders as a "formula of national consensus." However, it still rejects the legitimacy of Israel and maintains the goal of "liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea," which includes all of present-day Israel.

The bottom line is that "from the river to the sea" is a softened way of saying "obliterate Israel" according to Hamas' charter.

So is genocide a solution to the Hamas problem? There is nowhere Gazans can go because of walls and blockades, even if they had the wherewithal.

 

[DaisyDay]

Criticizing Netanyahu is valid, but many protesters against the Israeli government or the war seem one-sided. I have yet to see a protest condemning Hamas.

Yeah, it is unusual to hold protests against the people who are not in power, against the ones being genocided.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Why ask me? I've never used the slogan nor have I spoken to anyone who has.

So you don’t know what that means.

It means that the land from the River to Sea belongs to Palestinians and no one else.

In another word “ Free Palestine” is a slogan for extinction of Jews.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Yeah, it is unusual to hold protests against the people who are not in power, against the ones being genocided.

Have you forgotten that the recent conflict between Palestinians and Israelis started when Hamas attacked Israel?

I haven't seen any protests condemning Hamas, but I have noticed Hamas flags at the protests.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Following the murder of two Israeli embassy staffers earlier this week, former Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism under President Biden, Ambassador Deborah Lipstadt,

It is MAGA that is forcing the definition of antisemitism on any criticism or protest of Israeli or US policy.

When did Biden become MAGA - your boogey man is from the Biden administration.

 

[DaisyDay]

So you don’t know what that means.

It means that the land from the River to Sea belongs to Palestinians and no one else.

In another word “ Free Palestine” is a slogan for extinction of Jews.

And what does "Stop the Genocide" mean?

Have you forgotten that the recent conflict between Palestinians and Israelis started when Hamas attacked Israel?

That's not when it started, for goodness' sake! The conflict has been ongoing for as long as I can recall. They have been completely walled in and blockaded with their monies confiscated by Israel. They've been living in an open air prison unable to come or go. They are subject to getting shot just for tending their orchards and farms too near the border.

 

[BCP1928]

The Arab-Israeli conflict existed long before President Trump was born. Mentioning the Trump administration is irrelevant to the broader issue.

Actually, it started a year after he was born. There was no Israel then. During the Mandate Palestian Moslems and Jews fought the British and fought among each other as well, mostly against the European Zionists who began immigrating in larger numbers.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Okay, 1988 - nearly 40 years ago. How many of the current residents were even alive back then, let alone old enough to vote?

So is genocide a solution to the Hamas problem? There is nowhere Gazans can go because of walls and blockades, even if they had the wherewithal.

You asked a question, and I provided an answer. So do what you want with it.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I had not considered that perspective, but you make a valid point. However, it is evident that many Muslims do not interpret this verse as you have interpreted it.

Yes. Many people who call themselves Muslim, are not followers of Muhammad or Islam. The same can be said for many Christians.