What do you say to anti-theists on the formation of the universe?

[GoldenKingGaze]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.
The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

 

[BCP1928]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.
The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

I;m not sure where your going with this. Are there anti-theists who believe that the universe is God or full of God?

 

[Neogaia777]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.
The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

I think what you are really trying to get at here is what does (or should) one say (or not say) to people who always say they are 100% sure (or certain) there is no overarching God, or any other smaller spirits or angels or quote/unquote "gods", etc?

And I would probably only start by just simply asking them just what it is that makes them think they can be so very much 100% certain of that so very much absolutely, and then see how the rest of the conversation would go from there, etc.

I very much depend on what other people might call instinct or intuition when I am in the middle of a conversation with somebody, even when I am online, etc, and so I would just have to see how the rest of the conversation would go from there. But that is where I would probably always start probably with people who think they can always be 100% certain of that probably, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.
The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

Do you mean, how to convince an atheist there is a God? If so, logic. This is the tool to use.
Blessings

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.
The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

In the case of the nature of the universe, mine is not to "say" to anti-theists but rather to critically evaluate whatever they have to say.......

 

[dlamberth]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

I would agree with them.

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.
The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

Being a Panentheist, I could go with the universe being full of God.

 

[Larniavc]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

Only certain Christians say that. Anyone who knows anything about cosmology knows that.

 

[trophy33]

People convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.

Faith is not just a logical reasoning and coming to conclusion. It requires also some emotional response and you cannot make somebody to like the idea of God or of Christ.

Therefore, faith is seen as a gift in theology. It is a specific combination of various things and one's heart must be ready.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I;m not sure where your going with this. Are there anti-theists who believe that the universe is God or full of God?

Hi, anti-theists think the universe exists by itself and that God doesn't exist.

 

[Larniavc]

Hi, anti-theists think the universe exists by itself and that God doesn't exist.

Yeah but that does not mean it’s random.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Yeah but that does not mean it’s random.

Random, itself is the universe, according to atheists. It is part of it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What do you say to anti-theists who say, the universe is self existent and all it's marvels exist by chance of themselves?

As you make it clear in later posts, you use "anti-theist" for persons who believe or assert there are no gods. This is a perfectly fine definition.

I suppose they could make that claim about the Universe, but I don't know why you are worried about anti-theists and the nature of the Universe. You should really check with physical cosmologists and there are lots of views that don't use a god (well all of them, since science doesn't use gods as explanations), some of which might be described as "random".

It is like the Egyptian sun disc concept, not seeing in full, and assuming it is flat.

Huh? Who cares about the Egyptian religious views?

There are ideas like the universe being self existent but dead.

Self-existent, I suppose they could. Dead, what does that mean? How can it be "dead"? Was the Universe ever "alive" that it could be "dead" now? The Universe is an event of matter and fields in spacetime, how is it "dead"?

The universe as having a soul.
The universe being god.
The universe being full of God.

I don't think the "anti-theists" will be arguing any of those either.

 

[BCP1928]

People convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.

Faith is not just a logical reasoning and coming to conclusion. It requires also some emotional response and you cannot make somebody to like the idea of God or of Christ.

Therefore, faith is seen as a gift in theology. It is a specific combination of various things and one's heart must be ready.

It's hard to convince someone to believe in God if they look at you and decide that it won't do them any good. Rational arguments are useless if you can't witness for them yourself.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

As you make it clear in later posts, you use "anti-theist" for persons who believe or assert there are no gods. This is a perfectly fine definition.

I suppose they could make that claim about the Universe, but I don't know why you are worried about anti-theists and the nature of the Universe. You should really check with physical cosmologists and there are lots of views that don't use a god (well all of them, since science doesn't use gods as explanations), some of which might be described as "random".

Huh? Who cares about the Egyptian religious views?

Self-existent, I suppose they could. Dead, what does that mean? How can it be "dead"? Was the Universe ever "alive" that it could be "dead" now? The Universe is an event of matter and fields in spacetime, how is it "dead"?

I don't think the "anti-theists" will be arguing any of those either.

The mistake of thinking the sun a disc and not a sphere shows the idea lacking insight. The universe is a glove with God's hand in it.

Is the universe a living soul? It is at the root of Greek natural philosophy. Trees, rocks, have souls and the Earth is called Gaia, from that ancient perspective.

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm convinced that a lot of quote/unquote "anti-theists" are the way they are because of our very, very poor, past examples, etc. And I would include myself in that, etc. Not all of them maybe, but certainly some of them probably, etc. And if that is the case, neither reason/example is very good, or pure, and we are both to blame for that, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

Random, itself is the universe, according to atheists. It is part of it.

Which atheists says ‘the universe is random’?

 

[Neogaia777]

The mistake of thinking the sun a disc and not a sphere shows the idea lacking insight. The universe is a glove with God's hand in it.

Is the universe a living soul? It is at the root of Greek natural philosophy. Trees, rocks, have souls and the Earth is called Gaia, from that ancient perspective.

"New Earth 777"

Came up with that a long, long time ago actually, and just have not bothered to try and change it to anything else ever since. I've thought about maybe trying to change it sometimes maybe, since it is very, very old, and I was in a whole, very, very different, completely different place way back then, but just haven't bothered to try to change it to anything else ever since.

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

The universe is a glove with God's hand in it.

Why would an all powerful god make the universe like a glove?

 

[Neogaia777]

Why would an all powerful god make the universe like a glove?

Maybe it has infinity stones in it?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Why would an all powerful god make the universe like a glove?

I think Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins would say randomness and entropy are the natural constant attributes of the universe. And to use an oxymoron, before the universe and time, there was something there, that may not have been random and subject to entropy, but that too is considered self existent and not a living thing, not intelligent.

I think the universe is designed by God, with laws and a nature God chose and uses, to further create with, by His presence, you could say His hand in the amidst natural laws, the glove so to speak.

He does not break the laws of nature to create, and defy nature, but uses nature, like a glove or chisel.