C. S. Lewis On Why He Never Became A Catholic

[Beth77]

The Book of Acts tells us Jesus and His Church is One. Rejecting the Church IS rejecting Jesus.

Is Jesus's church his body of followers?

 

[concretecamper]

So to be clear. Your position is that for example, someone born who never had the opportunity to hear of Christ (Native Americans before the Europeans arrived for example or someone in Africa or on a remote island) -- since those people never even heard of Christ or his Church, they are all in hell?

All I am doing in repeating what the Church teaches. You are the one giving your opinion, which is fine.

 

[Beth77]

Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

With all love and respect, if that is true, why then did Jesus not mention membership in the Catholic Church in the following? Thank you in advance.

Matthew 22:36-40
New International Version
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[concretecamper]

I believe you can find the concept of the inner disposition of the heart in “On Promotion of False Doctrines”, a papal encyclical by Pope Pius IX in 1863

Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.

Yes, I am familiar with this. My question was to see if the poster could explain what it meant because "God knows the heart" is thrown around too much.

 

[narnia59]

All I am doing in repeating what the Church teaches. You are the one giving your opinion, which is fine.

No you're not repeating what the Church actually teaches because you're not providing the context the Church uses. Plus you started this whole conversation by stating it was "sad" that CS Lewis is "lost" which is definitely not something taught by the Catholic Church and falls completely in the domain of your opinion.

You say the Church teaches "Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation."

What the Church actually teaches is that "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

The idea that someone must "know" the Catholic Church was founded as necessary is an important fact that you choose to omit. Is that on purpose?

 

[concretecamper]

What the Church actually teaches is that "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

That deals with only the class of people who knows that the Catholic Church is necessary. It doesn't say a word about those who don't know, if they will be saved.

Please, don't read into things. Read the words and only the words. Don't add between the lines.

 

[concretecamper]

With all love and respect, if that is true, why then did Jesus not mention membership in the Catholic Church in the following? Thank you in advance.

Paul in his letter to the Corinthians tells us that Baptism makes us part of His Body.

The Gospel of tells us that unless we are born again of water and spirit, we do not have eternal life.

Acts clearly demonstrates that Christ and His Church are One. Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me.

Therefore the Church teaches that Baptism makes one part of His Body, which is the Church.

And, since the Church founded by Christ IS the Catholic Church, it is His Body.

 

[narnia59]

That deals with only the class of people who knows that the Catholic Church is necessary. It doesn't say a word about those who don't know, if they will be saved.

Please, don't read into things. Read the words and only the words. Don't add between the lines.

For once you are correct when you say "it doesn't say a word about those who don't know." Which is why when you state that "Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation" is Catholic church dogma you are in error.

 

[concretecamper]

Is Jesus's church his body of followers?

His Church is all Baptized believers.

 

[concretecamper]

For once you are correct when you say "it doesn't say a word about those who don't know." Which is why when you state that "Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation" is Catholic church dogma you are in error.

Why don't you look up the list of Dogmas and then report back to us if what I posted is true or false

 

[narnia59]

Why don't you look up the list of Dogmas and then report back to us if what I posted is true or false

Are you referring to the list of 255 infallible Catholic dogmas that floats around the internet?

Or do you have an official list that was actually put together and published by the Church?

 

[SeekFirst0]

Well, I'm not aware of any Dogma of the Catholic Church that says the "inner disposition of the heart" contributes anything toward the justification of the person.

However, I do know of this Dogma:

Membership of the Catholic Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

As a Dogma, we as Catholics are bound by penalty of excommunication to believe.

Please look it up for yourself.

I think you need to examine it again yourself, respectfully. Others have noted that to you already.

 

[Lady Bug]

His Church is all Baptized believers.

Do you say that Protestants are considered believers? Just interested in what you have to say.

I do get a little concerned that those who "believe" knowingly-and-willingly protest the Church, but oh well.

 

[concretecamper]

Are you referring to the list of 255 infallible Catholic dogmas that floats around the internet?

Or do you have an official list that was actually put together and published by the Church?

For someone who is seeking the truth, are you gonna punt after a few Google searches? Dog in, research

 

[Beth77]

Paul in his letter to the Corinthians tells us that Baptism makes us part of His Body.

The Gospel of tells us that unless we are born again of water and spirit, we do not have eternal life.

Acts clearly demonstrates that Christ and His Church are One. Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me.

Therefore the Church teaches that Baptism makes one part of His Body, which is the Church.

And, since the Church founded by Christ IS the Catholic Church, it is His Body.

Thank you for your response.

 

[Beth77]

His Church is all Baptized believers.

Thanks again.

 

[concretecamper]

Do you say that Protestants are considered believers? Just interested in what you have to say.

I do get a little concerned that those who "believe" knowingly-and-willingly protest the Church, but oh well.

To put it simply, and I know this is gonna ruffle some feather, but all validly Baptized believers become members of the Catholic Church. Original Sin is washed away and we become a new creation.

Validly Baptized means proper matter, proper form, and proper intention. Many protestants use proper matter and proper form but not all have proper intention. To have proper intention, you must perform the Sacrament with the same intention the Church does. Many protestants baptize with the intention of it being a symbol, which would make the baptism invalid.

This topic always gets some Catholic sideways because they lean towards the heresy of universalism. But whether your Catholic or protestant, the same rules apply. You either die in a state of Grace or you don't. Catholic or protestant, if you die in a state of Grace, you're upward bound. You die not in the state of grace, not a good outcome.

 

[narnia59]

For someone who is seeking the truth, are you gonna punt after a few Google searches? Dog in, research

I don't have to do a google search to be familiar with the list of 255 infallible dogmas of the Catholic Church you can find on the internet. It is primarily the work of Ludwig Ott and derived from his text the Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

Ott was a priest and his work is neither the work of the Ordinary or Extraordinary teaching Magisterium of the Church. It has no authoritative status whatsoever. Nor does the shortened list from his text that someone compiled (don't think it was actually him but not sure.)

So, I'll ask again. You told me to look up "the" list of dogmas. Do you have a "list of dogmas" that is actually a product of the Magisterium and therefore authoritative? Or are you relying on a list compiled by a theologian that is not the work of the Magisterium and isn't authoritative at all?

 

[concretecamper]

Punt again ?

 

[Michie]

15 "Roman Catholic" Views Of C. S. Lewis

C. S. Lewis is celebrated by Protestants as a Christian champion—but what if many of his actual beliefs sounded more Catholic than Evangelical? I survey fifteen such beliefs.

www.patheos.com