Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture?

[SabbathBlessings]

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. NKJV

In the flesh no man can do the law. All we can do is try. If you think that you can even observe the law as God states you are wrong.

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation — as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. NKJV

They are scripture and you are the one misinterpreting.

Faith does not void the law, yes.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

Why do you still try to do the law when Jesus did it for you. Jesus said the greatest commandment was Deut 6:5 and the second was Lev 19:18. Both those two cover the10 commandments as well as all the law.

If anyone believes in Jesus it is the end of the law for righteousness. If you do not believe that you are righteous by believing in Jesus then you do not completely trust Him to make you righteous. As I wrote in my rely. We are obligated to walk as Jesus walked, that is why John wrote "ought' to walk as Jesus walk. You are saying that Jesus did not do the job of Keeping the law. You think you can walk better than Him. I try to walk like Him. That is good enough to please Him. Why? Because I do it out of love not because I have to. You are trying to walk like Him because you think you have to. If you have to you are working for your salvation.


Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. NKJV

Paul wanted to practice good but couldn't do it. As he said in the above he practiced the bad that He did not want to do. Are better than Paul? That is why I say we try to do the good. I'm not writing gospel. But I did explain why we had an obligation to try to do good.


I never said that we should practice evil. I said that we ought to practice good.

About the sabbath.

Mark 2:25 But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?" 27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath." NKJV

Jesus said they were guiltless, in the Matthew account, not because what they did was not work? No! The reason He gave was because the Sabbath was made for man. When the needs of man required work on the sabbath, they could do what was illegal on the Sabbath. Even in the old Testiment if it wasneeded that you to do work on the Sabbath you were not guilty of a sin. Jesus should know if the disciples were guilty of breaking the sabath. Now to explain why the church keeps the first day of the week as their sabbath.


I cited Acts 13:14-18 in my post to explain why Paul worked on the Sabbath and had the Churches meet on the first day of the week. I will cite more scriptures of Paul working on the Sabbath.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us; 'I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.'" 48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. NKJV

Paul worked on the Sabbath. He had to because the gospel was to the Jew first.

Acts 14:1 Now it happened in Iconium that they went together to the synagogue of the Jews, and so spoke that a great multitude both of the Jews and of the Greeks believed. NKJV

Once again to the Jew first in the synagogue.

Acts 16:12 And we were staying in that city for some days. 13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. NKJV

According to my Jewish commentary if the city had no synagogue the Jews would meet by a river to pray and hold fellowship.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ." 4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas. NKJV

There Paul is again working in the synagogue preaching the gospel to the Jews.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. NKJV

Paul stayed a year and half in Corinth. Every sabbath until they kicked him out Paul was in the synagogue working. Because Paul, went to where the Jews meet on the sabbath, he had to name another day to meet with the Church.

Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight NKJV

The first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread. That was all the believers in the city came together to take the Lord's supper.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: 2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper NKJV

Why did all the churches in Galatia and the Corinthian church have orders to gather their gifts to God on the first day of the week? Because Paul needed a day to meet with the Churches that he started. If at all possible he set aside the Sabbath to take the gospel to the Jews. He found that the day of worship for the churches needed be changed to another day. The day for meeting with the churches is the first day of the week a day is known as the Lord's day. Why could Paul do that and not be called least in the kingdom of God? Because the sabbath was made to meet mans needs. God told him to go to the Jew first on the day they gathered. Paul needed to find a day that he could meet the church and teach them.

I am only going to respond to a couple items and than I will just leave it as agree to disagree, there's too much I do not think you are looking at the context or the message behind the Scriptures you are quoting. We can make any argument we want plucking out a verse here or there, but is it really God's Truth?

Can you point out where eating on the Sabbath is a sin anywhere in the Bible. The apostles were hungry plucking the tops of grain and eating while walking with Jesus. They were not working and you are adding that to the text. Something I do not recommend doing Pro 30:5-6 Jesus held them guiltless not because He bent the rules for His apostles while condemning the Pharisees for breaking the same commandments Mat 15:1-14 that would make Jesus a hypocrite and I hope that's not what you are insinuating. The Pharisees were adding many rules to the Sabbath and making it a burden when Jesus said its to be a delight Isa 58:13-14 eating grain is no different than picking a piece of fruit from the garden and eating. Not a sin now, not a sin then. This is what Jesus is correcting. He said the Sabbath was made for man (the Greek word here used means mankind) speaking of creation when both the Sabbath and man was made, man was created first, than the Sabbath hence the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because He is the Creator so would know how the Sabbath is to be kept. Jesus never once said He was changing the Sabbath, He already promised not a jot or tittle can change from His law, heaven and earth would pass before that and heaven and earth are still here, so is God's law just the way God said Mat 5:18-30.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath meaning the Sabbath still stands. Its points to Jesus our Creator Exo 20:11 Its sad man thinks they can tear down God's Sabbath, when He is Lord of it. It would be like someone coming into your house and telling you to tear it down.


Now onto this

Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight NKJV

The first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread. That was all the believers in the city came together to take the Lord's supper.

No where in this verse does it say its "the Lords Supper" or that all the believers in the city came together, they were in the upper room where the disciples met. Probably best not to add what’s not there

Lets examine the verses

Act 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where [a]they were gathered together. 9 And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. 10 But Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him said, “Do not trouble yourselves, for his life is in him.” 11 Now when he had come up, had broken bread and eaten, and talked a long while, even till daybreak, he departed. 12 And they brought the young man in alive, and they were not a little comforted.

First there is nothing that is stated about a new day of worship or they met every day one, in fact it tells us why they were meeting. Paul was going on a mission trip the next morning and it would be the last time they would get together for a while. It was an evening meeting, Saturday night because in Bible times days start in the evening. The came together to break bread, which means have a meal something they did daily Acts 2:46. The apostles did things on a daily basis, doesn't make it a new day of worship a new commandment. The apostles can't bless a day or take away God's sanctification. Once God blesses man can't reverse Num 23:56, they were commissioned to spread the gospel, not teach people to be a commandment breaker. This Scripture says nothing about every day 1 worship.

There Paul is again working in the synagogue preaching the gospel to the Jews.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks. NKJV

Paul was not breaking the Sabbath for preaching the gospel every Sabbath to both Jews and Gentiles, just like a preacher today is not working when preaching God's Word on the Sabbath. Sorry you do not understand the Sabbath commandment and this is similar argument the Pharisees had. The apostles were keeping the Sabbath the same manner as Jesus Luke 4:16 so by your assessment Jesus broke the Sabbath and the Pharisees were right that Jesus sinned despite His own testimony that He never sinned and kept the commandments John 15:10 John 8:45-47 The Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and Jesus held the priest blameless on the Sabbath Matthew 12:5 because doing God's way on the Sabbath isa 58:13 like preaching and teaching His Word is not a sin or work and sad its even an argument.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

Does that mean the law ended? Its says end of the law for righteousness, not that the law ended. Our righteousness is by faith. Do we void the law by faith- certainly not, we establish the law Rom 3:31

Why do you still try to do the law when Jesus did it for you.

Jesus does not keep the law for us, He did not make us robots, He helps us keep it and there is a big difference. It requires our love, willingness and cooperation. If we are not willing to obey His commandments, He can't help us keep, we have to open the door to let Him in and submit to His will Psa 40:8

Its why its conditional

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Why one of the last verses in the Bible says this before the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

So its a choice.
James 1:22 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

How does one believe in Jesus but not His teachings? We are told someone who is saved keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12 not just "in" Jesus. How did Jesus live what did He teach, that was His faith and what He saints will also have.

Its why He said many will say Lord Lord (believers) at His Second Coming, so its more than I just believe in Him its be living Him.

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[keras]

Peace be upon the Land of Israel:
Isaiah 58:1-2 Shout aloud without restraint, declare to My people: Israel, their sins. They seek guidance of Me day after day and say they delight in knowing My ways, as if they were a nation which had acted rightly and had not abandoned the just Laws of their God. The Jewish State of Israel.

Isaiah 58:3-5 Why should we fast and work hard for God, when He seems to pay no heed? In fact you just serve your own interests on your holy day, keeping your workers employed. Your observance of a holy day leads only to trouble and strife, on such a day your ‘fasting’ [secular activities] means that you cannot expect your voice to be heard in heaven. Is that what you call a ‘fast day’, holy to the Lord? Just a day for a man to humble himself, bowing his head like a bulrush and repenting in sorrow. T
The situation of many Christian Church’s today.

Isaiah 58:6-7 This is the kind of ‘fast day’ that I require; to loose the chains of injustice, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke. To share your food with the hungry and to provide the homeless with shelter. When you see those without garments, to clothe them and to never evade your duty to your kinfolk.

Isaiah 58:8-9 Then your light will break forth like the dawn, your healing will appear, your righteousness will go before you and the glory of the Lord will follow you. Then you will call and the Lord will answer, you will cry for help and He will say; Here I am!
Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts2:21, Romans 10:13

Isaiah 58:13-14 If you keep your Sabbath day holy by not doing as you please, making the Lords day worthy of honour and do not attend to your own affairs, then you will find joy in the Lord. He will give you dominion over the Land, the holding of your father, Jacob will be yours to enjoy.
Jacob, your Spiritual father.

Isaiah 58:11-12 The Lord will guide you always. He will satisfy your needs in the sun scorched Land and give you strength. You will be like a well watered garden, like an unfailing spring. Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins and build upon ancient foundations. You will be called the restorers of houses and towns.

Psalms 125:1-5 Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion; it cannot be shaken, it stands forever. As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds His people, for now and evermore. Surely wicked rulers will not continue to control the Land allotted to the righteous, or the righteous may put their hand to injustice. Do good, Lord to Your people, to those who are upright in heart, but those who turn aside into crooked ways, let them suffer the penalty of evildoers PEACE BE UPON ISRAEL.
Reference: REB. some verses abridged.

‘Surely wicked rulers will not continue to control the Land’ – the apostate, atheistic and false religion peoples who currently occupy most that area originally promised to Abraham, will not stay much longer. The soon to happen, Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, will ‘sun scorch’ the entire Middle East, allowing His faithful Christian people to ‘have dominion over the Land’, and they will ‘rebuild the ancient ruins’. Then, there will be truly; Peace upon the holy land of Israel.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Israel represents God's Church. In the OT, it was literal Israel, but those with faith could be grafted in like we see with Ruth. Why the Sabbath has a provisions right in the commandment says its for everyone

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

In the NC God's covenant is still made with Israel, because it represents His Church, but we are grafted in through our faith and in doing so we are heirs of His promises made to literal Israel

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Its why literal Israel also has to be grafted in through faith

Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

 

[fli]

Does that mean the law ended? Its says end of the law for righteousness, not that the law ended. Our righteousness is by faith. Do we void the law by faith- certainly not, we establish the law Rom 3:31


Jesus does not keep the law for us, He did not make us robots, He helps us keep it and there is a big difference. It requires our love, willingness and cooperation. If we are not willing to obey His commandments, He can't help us keep, we have to open the door to let Him in and submit to His will Psa 40:8

He did keep the law for us. He helps us keep it because in Him God looks on us as being dead. A dead man cannot sin. Then He convinces us to have a spiritual mind. If we are convinced to have a spiritual mind then we be disciplined by Him and walk in the Spirit.

I did not say that the law ended. It ended for righteousness to those who believe. Therefore, anyone that believes in Jesus cannot earn righteousnerss from doing the law. I do it out of love knowing that it cannot add to or improve the righteousness Jesus gave to me.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Why one of the last verses in the Bible says this before the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

In the NT in 1John 3: 22-23 lists the commandments we need to keep in the new covenant. Yet you do not believe Him. 1John 3:14 if we love the brethren we have passed from death to life. That is one of the two commandments that he lists in 3:22-23. Why is loving the brethren a sign that we have eternal life without the commandment to believe in Jesus? Isn't John denying that we need to believe in Jesus?

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, NKJV

No to both questions. As can be seen from the above the minute we have hope in Jesus we enough love and faith to get into heaven. God put His love in us, that is the way He helps us to obey. Do you deny that we have action love if it's Jesus' love? Jesus gifted us with saving faith and love for all the saints. Just as the thief on the cross, immediately after he trusted Jesus he was ready to depart and go where Jesus went. He went to paradise because, until Jesus died the only gift God could not give was to be born of the Spirit. Since he, the same as we, are saved through faith it means God gifted him with everything needed to go with Jesus.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." NKJV

Jesus in the above gave us a new covenant commandment. If we love each other, disciples loving disciples, everyone will know we are His disciples. That means we are disciples if we love the brethren and that with 1John3:14 is the second witness, it takes two witness to establish the truth. Do you deny the established truth?


You cannot say that it takes action love and the above does not indicate action. Jesus stated the new commandment to John and Jesus knows what it takes. John simply stated the same commandment to us in the epistle. You cannot say that I said we try to do this commandment. We do this commandment as it is a gift from God. Because God has granted us repentance to life we do not even need to use the gift at first. After we pass the point of eternal life, meaning we have accepted God's discipline, then, if we stay in the Spirit, Romans 8: 9-11, we are showing we have action love to both God and our brethren. If we did not have action love we would not be in the Spirit. That's all that I need to reply to.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

He did keep the law for us. He helps us keep it because in Him God looks on us as being dead. A dead man cannot sin. Then He convinces us to have a spiritual mind. If we are convinced to have a spiritual mind then we be disciplined by Him and walk in the Spirit.


In the NT in 1John 3: 22-23 lists the commandments we need to keep in the new covenant. Yet you do not believe Him. 1John 3:14 if we love the brethren we have passed from death to life. That is one of the two commandments that he lists in 3:22-23. Why is loving the brethren a sign that we have eternal life without the commandment to believe in Jesus? Isn't John denying that we need to believe in Jesus?

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, NKJV

No to both questions. As can be seen from the above the minute we have hope in Jesus we enough love and faith to get into heaven. God put His love in us, that is the way He helps us to obey. Do you deny that we have action love if it's Jesus' love? Jesus gifted us with saving faith and love for all the saints. Just as the thief on the cross, immediately after he trusted Jesus he was ready to depart and go where Jesus went. He went to paradise because, until Jesus died the only gift God could not give was to be born of the Spirit. Since he, the same as we, are saved through faith it means God gifted him with everything needed to go with Jesus.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." NKJV

Jesus in the above gave us a new covenant commandment. If we love each other, disciples loving disciples, everyone will know we are His disciples. That means we are disciples if we love the brethren and that with 1John3:14 is the second witness, it takes two witness to establish the truth. Do you deny the established truth?


You cannot say that it takes action love and the above does not indicate action. Jesus stated the new commandment to John and Jesus knows what it takes. John simply stated the same commandment to us in the epistle. You cannot say that I said we try to do this commandment. We do this commandment as it is a gift from God. Because God has granted us repentance to life we do not even need to use the gift at first. After we pass the point of eternal life, meaning we have accepted God's discipline, then, if we stay in the Spirit, Romans 8: 9-11, we are showing we have action love to both God and our brethren. If we did not have action love we would not be in the Spirit. That's all that I need to reply to.

I believe but I do not think you are reading your own Scriptures, it doesn't say He keeps for us.


1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave [a]us commandment.

Are these not the commandments of Jesus quoting directly from the Ten Commandments saying to keep for eternal life?

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

This of course includes all Ten Commandments and the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart, mind and soul which both summarize the Ten Commandments Deut 5, Deut 6 Rom 13:9. The summary does not delete the details. And failing to follow no longer is love to God or love to neighbor, its rebellion.

Jesus went on to say when we keep our human traditions over obeying the commandments of God quoting again from the Ten Commandments ones heart is far from Him and one worships Him in vain. This really can't be any clearer and of course it includes all of God's commandments. He said in doing so this path leads those who teach and those who follow in a ditch, off the narrow path

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

No wonder Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so one would be least in heaven and according to the next verse 20 means not there Mat 5:19-20

So should we just select the teachings of Jesus we like and ignore the others or should we live by every Word that proceeds out of His mouth as we are told Mat 4:4. I believe we should believe and follow all of what He said.

Be well.

 

[Douggg]

@SabbathBlessings

Today is the sabbath for Jews. They don't post anything at their discussion forum, Virtual Yeshiva", on the sabbath. So if you are likewise keeping the sabbath, then why are you posting on the sabbath ?

 

[fli]

I believe but I do not think you are reading your own Scriptures, it doesn't say He keeps for us.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

When we have faith in Jesus our righteousness comes from our faith because God imputed the righteousness of Jesus to us. Our hope in Jesus gave us our saving faith. It did not come from works.

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave [a]us commandment.

Are these not the commandments of Jesus quoting directly from the Ten Commandments saying to keep for eternal life?

John gave us the commandments in verse 23.

Mat 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? [f]No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

This of course includes all Ten Commandments and the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart, mind and soul which both summarize the Ten Commandments Deut 5, Deut 6 Rom 13:9. The summary does not delete the details. And failing to follow no longer is love to God or love to neighbor, its rebellion.

John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, 25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man. NKJV

Jesus knew every man that came to Him. Jesus knew what this mans problem was for this man to believe in Him.

Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"
28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live." NKJV

Different man same question different answer. Why? Because the lawyer was not looking for a savior. Jesus' answer to Him should tickle you completely. Jesus told Him that he had to keep the entire law. Why? Because this man was not ever going to seek a savior. Therefore, his only chance was to do the entire law. We know how that goes. Back to you scripture.

Matthew 19:20The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" 21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." NKJV

We know that to get into heaven you have to be perfect. Have you sold everything and given it to the poor? We don't have to because God impute Jesus' righteousness to us when we believe.

Now answer just why you do not believe John when He states the 2 commandments we are to Keep. Why do you deny Jesus's statement that everyone will know His disciples because they love each other. Even without doing any other commandm,ent Jesus says His disciples will be known because they love each other.

 

[Postvieww]

all the souls of humans from Adam to then, will be given consciousness

Scripture for this statement please.

 

[keras]

Scripture for this statement please.

Revelation 20:12 I saw the dead, great and small; standing before God......
John 11:24 I know he will rise again at the Last Day.....

 

[Postvieww]

Revelation 20:12 I saw the dead, great and small; standing before God......
John 11:24 I know he will rise again at the Last Day.....

I see no relation to: “all the souls of humans from Adam to then, will be given consciousness”. I do not accept that consciousness is lost at physical death. Many scriptures prove that and you should know them as well as I do.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

When we have faith in Jesus our righteousness comes from our faith because God imputed the righteousness of Jesus to us. Our hope in Jesus gave us our saving faith. It did not come from works.



John gave us the commandments in verse 23.


John 2:24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, 25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man. NKJV

Jesus knew every man that came to Him. Jesus knew what this mans problem was for this man to believe in Him.

Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" 27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"
28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live." NKJV

Different man same question different answer. Why? Because the lawyer was not looking for a savior. Jesus' answer to Him should tickle you completely. Jesus told Him that he had to keep the entire law. Why? Because this man was not ever going to seek a savior. Therefore, his only chance was to do the entire law. We know how that goes. Back to you scripture.

Matthew 19:20The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" 21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." NKJV

We know that to get into heaven you have to be perfect. Have you sold everything and given it to the poor? We don't have to because God impute Jesus' righteousness to us when we believe.

Now answer just why you do not believe John when He states the 2 commandments we are to Keep. Why do you deny Jesus's statement that everyone will know His disciples because they love each other. Even without doing any other commandm,ent Jesus says His disciples will be known because they love each other.

I think we are too far apart in our understanding of Scripture and I do not see our commentary the same as what He says, so I will leave it as agree to disagree but wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word. God bless

 

[SabbathBlessings]

@SabbathBlessings

Today is the sabbath for Jews. They don't post anything at their discussion forum, Virtual Yeshiva", on the sabbath. So if you are likewise keeping the sabbath, then why are you posting on the sabbath ?

This seems like an argument one of the Pharisees would make. Many of the Jews followed suit on the rules of the Pharisees, that Jesus condemned. There is no sin against sharing God's Word, even on the Sabbath. We see this example from Jesus and the apostles.

 

[Jamdoc]

I see no relation to: “all the souls of humans from Adam to then, will be given consciousness”. I do not accept that consciousness is lost at physical death. Many scriptures prove that and you should know them as well as I do.

he doesn't, he believes in soul sleep even when the bible contradicts it he throws in a "well God lets them cry out sometimes, but they're unconscious and soul sleeping"
even though during the 5th seal, and Revelation 19, they are conscious and aware of what is happening.
I don't buy that God jerks them around like some puppet to say things they're unaware of in a coma.

 

[keras]

he believes in soul sleep

Yes: I believe in what the Bible says, instead of foolish speculations.
How much does one know or comprehend after death?

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.

Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!
The crying out of the martyrs at times, is simply figurative for them; what they would do if they could.

 

[Jamdoc]

Yes: I believe in what the Bible says, instead of foolish speculations.
How much does one know or comprehend after death?

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.

Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!

Note that those are pre-Calvalry passages.
Something changed after the cross.

Because New Testament does not teach soul sleep.

 

[keras]

Because New Testament does not teach soul sleep.

Hebrews 9:27 It is our human lot to die once, then comes the Judgment.
Dead people lose consciousness, then their next moment of awareness will be to stand before God on His Great White Throne.
Unless you can provide scripture that says everyone is Judged at their deaths, then Revelation 20:12 stands.

There is therefore: a time gap between death and the Judgment, when the Book of Life will be opened. Daniel 7:9-10 beautifully describes that event.
Eccl 12:1-7 says: the soul returns to the One who made it. No mention of consciousness or living in heaven.

 

[Fisherking]

well I can sum up that we're to watch signs not count dates, as Jesus' return is not on a known date. You count down days you'll be caught off guard because He comes when not expected. Known dates are kind of a no go.

Which PROVES the Rapture is Pre Trib. Again, this is SIMPLE MATHEMATICS, if the Beast signs a 7 Year Agreement and this starts up God's 70th week that is a natural 2520 day countdown, if the Beast rules for exactly 42 months after he conquers Israel that is a 1260 day countdown, if the Two-witnesses show up 1335 das before the 2nd coming, that is a 1335 day countdown. The only time there can not be a KNOWN COUNTDOWN unto is a Pre Trib. Rapture.

as for pre-trib rapture? Not biblical. We're not appointed to wrath, but we will have tribulation.

As a man called unto Prophecy for 40 years, you guys have no understanding of these biblical concepts, you get shown a way by some guy and you cling unto it for all its worth, you have to learn how to be guided by the holy spirit, and in order to do that you have to be able to say I AM WRONG. Way too many people can never say I am wrong on anything, this the holy spirit ca not overcome their "ideas" Remember when Jesus told the Pharisees about the dangers of the "Traditions of Men?" You can't see the obvious because you do not want to see it my friend.

Which requires post second coming salvation which is.. not biblical. Amos 8 and the Parable of the 10 virgins don't suggest post rapture salvation in fact they seemingly proof against it. Jesus didn't tell the 5 foolish to just wait 7 years. He utterly refused them. The parable of the wise and wicked servant? He didn't give the wicked servant chance to repent later, He cut him to pieces.

It's just not biblical but it's a necessity in order to explain who the saints are that are persecuted during tribulation because God forbid it be you, or me, or anyone else you know.

Its like a lost cause, its just not worth the effort it takes sadly.

 

[Postvieww]

Yes: I believe in what the Bible says, instead of foolish speculations.
How much does one know or comprehend after death?

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.
"The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.

Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!
The crying out of the martyrs at times, is simply figurative for them; what they would do if they could.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. Jesus did not say today you will know nothing or today you will be asleep with me . Being in a place or state of paradise cannot mean a state of nothingness. Ecclesiastes 9:5 cannot mean opposite of what Jesus said, it must be interpreted to harmonize with what Jesus said.

 

[Postvieww]

Yes: I believe in what the Bible says, instead of foolish speculations.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him Moses died physically and was not asleep or in a state of knowing nothing he was there talking with Jesus. Ecclesiastes 9:5 cannot contradict Matthew 17! Both must be true which makes your interpretation wrong and out of harmony with other scripture. The more reasonable interpretation of Ecclesiastes 9 is that it is talking about the eventuality of physical death and how once we pass from this life we will no longer know anything or be a part of this physical earthly existence. Moses was aware and taking with Jesus after death, the thief experienced paradise with Jesus after death, the rich man and Lazarus both were conscious and aware after death, Paul said to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord. Your interpretation that Ecclesiastes 9 nullifies all of these other passages as well as the words of Jesus is simply wrong,