Mathematical Formulas In Nature - Absolute Proof Of Creation

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

All this is is just another case of saying that the Bible says something but the ones doing the telling are incapable of showing where in the Bible it's claimed and how it fits together outside of the tired canard of "UGH... UGH... INTELLIGENCE!"

 

[Joseph G]

Kent Hovind is no way in the same category as Peter and John.

Sure 'nuff. And neither are P & J, or any of us, in the same category as Jesus Christ - in His unique Person as Eternal Creator God along with His Father, since eternity past and into eternity future.

So, hey, does this mean you're gonna seek and confer Chief Authority status upon Jesus, and what He says?

We are talking superior credentials, right? You respect those fellows filled with His Spirit, so you must be ready to respect our Shepherd. Woo hoo!

Luke 15:10 NKJV
"Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

biblegateway.com

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Sure 'nuff. And neither are P & J, or any of us, in the same category as Jesus Christ - in His unique Person as Eternal Creator God along with His Father, since eternity past and into eternity future.

So, hey, does this mean you're gonna seek and confer Chief Authority status upon Jesus, and what He says?

We are talking superior credentials, right? You respect those fellows filled with His Spirit, so you must be ready to respect our Shepherd. Woo hoo!

Luke 15:10 NKJV
"Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

biblegateway.com

Wow. What a load of codswallop to ignore the legitimate fact that Kent Hovind isn't a real doctor of any stripe.

 

[Joseph G]

Wow. What a load of codswallop to ignore the legitimate fact that Kent Hovind isn't a real doctor of any stripe.

The same challenge goes to you as given to Hans, give already with the rebuttal to his argument.

Now having left you with yet another challenge, as in all of our dances on every other thread, I invite you to lobby another devasting irrelevant enjoinder as usual, oh king of the last word. I'll ignore as usual. Make it a real zinger! *big smile*

biblegateway.com

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The same challenge goes to you as given to Hans, give already with the rebuttal to his argument.

Now having left you with yet another challenge, as in all of our dances on every other thread, I invite you to lobby another devasting irrelevant enjoinder as usual, oh king of the last word. I'll ignore as usual. Make it a real zinger! *big smile*

biblegateway.com

Commentary about faith in God has nothing to do with the fact that A) you can't do anything to support the claim that the Bible shows something like the Fibonacci sequence in it at all, and B) that Kent Hovind is a certified quack.

Those are the real challenges for you.

 

[Joseph G]

Commentary about faith in God has nothing to do with the fact that A) you can't do anything to support the claim that the Bible shows something like the Fibonacci sequence in it at all, and B) that Kent Hovind is a certified quack.

Those are the real challenges for you.

Weak...

Doh! Ok, your turn again! Isn't this fun?

Curious, anything to say about his example of the trinity in creation relating to the Trinity in Holy Scripture?

Ach du lieber! Science... Scripture.

Now W, [tap, tap], you said there was no such reference in the vid. Don't tell me you're lobbing your usual without actually watching the vid... again?

Whazza matter, too intimidated to debate a quack?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Weak...

Doh! Ok, you're turn again! Isn't this fun?

Curious, anything to say about his example of the trinity in creation relating to the Trinity in Holy Scripture?

Ach du lieber! Science... Scripture.

Now W, [tap, tap], you said there was no such reference in the vid. Don't tell me you're lobbing your usual without actually watching the vid... again?

Whazza matter, too intimidated to debate a quack?

I wouldn't call you a quack in the slightest, though your posting style leaves a lot to be desired.

And no, I'm not debating Kent Hovind, since one can't debate a video, and I can only debate you.

But as always, this is nothing more than a case of all telling and no showing. You can't show that the Bible shows anything akin to the Fibonacci sequence in it, and you can't show anything that shows why anyone should take Hovind seriously since the man is a quack, and a crank too.

So... on your bike, lad.

 

[Joseph G]

I wouldn't call you a quack in the slightest, though your posting style leaves a lot to be desired.

And no, I'm not debating Kent Hovind, since one can't debate a video, and I can only debate you.

But as always, this is nothing more than a case of all telling and no showing. You can't show that the Bible shows anything akin to the Fibonacci sequence in it, and you can't show anything that shows why anyone should take Hovind seriously since the man is a quack, and a crank too.

So... on your bike, lad.

Happily! Wheee!

 

[trophy33]

I think that mathematical patterns and the fine tuning of the Universe are interesting evidence for an intelligent creator, but I do not think they are "absolute proof". Because they need to be interpreted to mean this or that.

And I do not see how they lead specifically to "the God of the Bible".

 

[BCP1928]

Generally one with a doctorate is conferred upon the privilege of identifying as a Dr.

In this is case the "Doctorate" was purchased for $50 from a place called Patriot University in Colorado.

If the argument is devastating and defies logical rebuttal, what does a title mean anyway?

A carpenter and a few fishermen from ~ 2000 years ago come to mind. Hmm...

Yep, you guessed it. Whose stories are found right here: biblegateway.com

Let him present a "devastating" argument which "defies logical rebuttal" and we'll see.

 

[Joseph G]

​

I think that mathematical patterns and the fine tuning of the Universe are interesting evidence for an intelligent creator, but I do not think they are "absolute proof". Because they need to be interpreted to mean this or that.

And God has given you, and all of us, that ability to interpret. We are endowed by His own gift to observe, evaluate, and perceive not just an Intelligent Creator, but the basics of His nature...

Romans 1:20 KJV
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

And I do not see how they lead specifically to "the God of the Bible".

The ability to see only comes through *seeking* to know God more fully - with ALL of our faculties - in prayer to His Spirit, in His creation, and in His Word. This is the Father drawing us to faith in His Son - through Whose Spirit alone He reveals the Father to us. That is the meaning of Christ's revelation.

It is then when Scripture truly comes alive - and the accuracy of His Word becomes progressively clearer in relation to ALL things - including, but certainly not limited to, science, nature, and matters of the heart.

Sitting back and dissecting God with emotional detachment, as if He were a specimen in a lab, with no desire to know Him, doesn't cut it. He is not, and will not be, fully known only through the intellect.

One who persists in willfully resisting His call to seek Him in mind, body and spirit - will remain willfully blind and deaf. And responsible for rejecting His astoundingly costly offer of grace. Our hearts *know* there is something profoundly wrong within us - we alone choose whether to remain hardened to Him.

He didn't lay out the universe, and all that is in it, to just entertain us, but to woo us like a suitor.

We are separated from Him by sin, and He wants us back - by invitation, not by force. Even the most stoic intellectual knows that freedom to choose is elemental to the true meaning of love.

What good does it do to finally arrive at fully defining Him on paper, if we have no desire to be with Him in Person?

Jeremiah 29:11-13 NIV
"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

 

[trophy33]

And God has given you, and all of us, that ability to interpret. We are endowed by His own gift to observe, evaluate, and perceive not just an Intelligent Creator, but the basics of His nature...

An individual interpretation does not establish "the absolute proof".

The ability to see only comes through *seeking* to know God more fully - with ALL of our faculties - in prayer to His Spirit, in His creation, and in His Word. This is the Father drawing us to faith in His Son - through Whose Spirit alone He reveals the Father to us.

It is then when Scripture truly comes alive - and the accuracy of His Word becomes progressively clearer in relation to ALL things - including, but certainly not limited to, science, nature, and matters of the heart.

Sitting back and dissecting God with emotional detachment, as if He were a specimen in a lab, with no desire to know Him, doesn't cut it. He is not, and will not be, fully known only through the intellect.

One who persists in willfully resisting His call to seek Him in mind, body and spirit - will remain willfully blind and deaf. And responsible for rejecting His astoundingly costly offer of grace.

He didn't lay out the universe, and all that is in it, to just entertain us, but to woo us like a suitor.

We are separated from Him by sin, and He wants us back - by invitation, not by force. Even the most stoic intellectual knows that freedom to choose is elemental to the true meaning of love.

What good does it do to finally arrive at fully defining Him on paper, if we have no desire to be with Him in Person?

Jeremiah 29:11-13 NIV
"For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Try to make your point in one thought-through sentence.

 

[BCP1928]

"We know what correct doctrine is, and you will know it is correct doctrine too when you come to believe that it is correct doctrine like we do."

 

[AV1611VET]

In this is case the "Doctorate" was purchased for $50 from a place called Patriot University in Colorado.

Did he pay for it with got-it-wrong, the-father-of-evolution, Charles "The Preservation of Favoured Races" Darwin's bank note?

The one with Darwin's face on it?

Before he died and was buried in a prominent cemetery?

 

[trophy33]

"We know what correct doctrine is, and you will know it is correct doctrine too when you come to believe that it is correct doctrine like we do."

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Did he pay for it with got-it-wrong, the-father-of-evolution, Charles "The Preservation of Favoured Races" Darwin's bank note?

The one with Darwin's face on it?

Before he died and was buried in a prominent cemetery?

... I think you got your countries mixed up, AV. Colorado is in America.

 

[BCP1928]

This is fun. Joseph is trying to demonstrate the truth of Mathematical Realism in order to prove that the theory of evolution denies the existence of God. Since evolution can be described mathematically, if he proves mathematics are real (that is, prescriptive and not just descriptive) he will have proved that the theory of evolution is true and does not deny the existence of God, and at the same time he will have disproved his own interpretation of Scripture, which is all he was really trying to justify in the first place Let's see how far he gets with it.

 

[Joseph G]

An individual interpretation does not establish "the absolute proof".

I'll repeat and expand upon what I said... the ability to interpret His *fundamental* attributes are available, in fact unavoidable, to *all* of us - in His creation. On these we all agree whether we admit such to ourselves and each other, or not. Certainly enough to discern that He is calling us.

God says He makes this clear to all - none of us gets a "oh, I had a different interpretation" get-out-of-jail free card. And jail is a mild word for what I pray will be no one's eventual destination.

Either we believe Him or we don't - it is still our responsibility to respond to Him.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Try to make your point in one thought-through sentence.

I believe you understand exactly what I'm saying - and are proving out the point that I made. Prove me wrong by seeking to know Him, trophy.

 

[Joseph G]

Since evolution can be described mathematically...

Bzzzz! And here's Don Pardo with a copy of the home game as a consolation prize!

 

[BCP1928]

Bzzzz! And here's Don Pardo with a copy of the home game as a consolation prize!

View attachment 365149

Here's a copy of the "Home Game" you can see for yourself. Just a basic intro, but pretty sound.

https://www.whitman.edu/documents/Academics/Mathematics/mummydg.pdf