Two in a bed one taken... where? Where there is a dead body, the vultures will gather. This means?

[GoldenKingGaze]

Luke 17:31-37 KJV
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:36-47 KJV
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

These cannot be about the rapture? It is bad to be taken, right?

 

[JulieB67]

You're right. It's not about a pretrib rapture. And yes, it's bad to be taken.

And when we take the word "taken" back to the Greek we can see that there are different Greek words/definitions when utilized in certain verses.

For example -

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left."

The Greek word for taken in this verse does not mean removed from the earth.

In the Strong's it's #3880 paralambano to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation) by anal, to assume an office, fig -to learn-receive, take (unto with)

And in this verse -

Matthew 9:15 "And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bride chamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."

It's an entirely different Greek word altogether -#522 apairo -to lift off, i.e. remove;-take away.

It literally means to lift off. So it doesn't make sense imo if taken meant a removal from the earth in verse 24:40 and not use the word apairo. Instead again, it's an entirely different definition.

And even Greek word #1869 epairo means to to raise up up, etc.

My belief is that the first taken in Matthew 24:40 and Luke 17:36 are taken in by antichrist and thus receive the mark.

Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

Receive in the Greek #2983 lambano- to take (in very many applications) lit and fig, or act, to get hold of whereas, etc.

And this word lambano is translated in some verses "taken" as well.


I believe we want to be as Christ states -enduring to the end, if it should happen in our lifetimes. And Paul is a second witness that we need that gospel armor on to be able to "stand in the evil day".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Luke 17:31-37 KJV
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:36-47 KJV
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

These cannot be about the rapture? It is bad to be taken, right?

No, it's not bad to be taken. It's bad to be left behind. The Greek word translated as "taken" is "paralambanō" which means "to take to" or "to join to one's self" or "to receive something". That describes what will happen with the rapture. We will be taken up to meet the Lord where He will receive us in the air.

If you read the passage that precedes the one you quoted from Luke 17, which is Luke 17:26-30, you should see that Jesus compares the day of His second coming to the day Noah went onto the ark after which the ones left outside the ark were all killed. And He also compared the day of His second coming to the day that Lot went out of Sodom and those left behind in Sodom were all killed. So, Jesus was saying that just as all left outside the ark and left behind in Sodom were all killed that's how it will be when Jesus returns. All who are not taken up to meet Him in the air and are left behind on the earth will be killed. The question "Where, Lord" is related to where it will happen that one is taken and one is left and the answer is everywhere because it will happen wherever the dead bodies are. There will be dead bodies all over the earth when Jesus comes in flaming fire to take vengeance on His enemies (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13).

 

[Beth77]

Interesting. I'm following!

 

[trophy33]

Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

This means that like dead bodies attract vultures, so also the judgement was applied where needed in the 66-70 AD period.

Either Jesus or Luke used specifically "eagles" instead of "vultures" in Greek, because eagles were Roman insignia. So it has also this symbolic meaning.

IMO.

 

[HTacianas]

Luke 17:31-37 KJV
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:36-47 KJV
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

These cannot be about the rapture? It is bad to be taken, right?

Two men in one bed. They are in bed because they are sick. Suffering from famine. One dies while the other lives. The two women grinding are preparing food. Famine. One dies of famine while the other lives. The two men are in a field, in the open without nowhere to hide. One is killed while the other lives. They've been attacked by an army.

Luk 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

When the Romans ultimately captured Jerusalem and destroyed the temple they carried their ensigns -containing their gold eagles- and leaned them against the temple wall and worshipped them. The "carcass" was the dead body of Jerusalem as represented by the temple. It was permanently destroyed, finally ending the old covenant.

Heb 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Interesting. I'm following!

Yes, very interesting. I like seeing the different ideas. But I am also wary to to not take any perspective at face value because most of the time on end-time issues (as with other issues) there is an entrenched theology being supported by the interpretation. In this case, I never stopped to ask the question of whether being taken was good or bad. I always thought it was good. But it is interesting to see the other two perspectives (one says it's bad, the other is neutral pointing only to physical death).

 

[timothyu]

No, it's not bad to be taken. It's bad to be left behind.

In other words the good die like all the rest (including Jesus) to be resurrected while evil has its final battle with the will of God here.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

In other words the good die like all the rest (including Jesus) to be resurrected while evil has its final battle with the will of God here.

That is not at all what I said. Go back and read what I said again.

 

[timothyu]

That is not at all what I said. Go back and read what I said again.

Become free of the bonds and instincts of the flesh to become truly one with God again?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Become free of the bonds and instincts of the flesh to become truly one with God again?

Here is what I had said when you first replied to me...

No, it's not bad to be taken. It's bad to be left behind. The Greek word translated as "taken" is "paralambanō" which means "to take to" or "to join to one's self" or "to receive something". That describes what will happen with the rapture. We will be taken up to meet the Lord where He will receive us in the air.

Where are you getting "Become free of the bonds and instincts of the flesh to become truly one with God again?" from what I said? I'm talking about those being taken as referring to the church being taken up to meet Christ in the air when He comes again and those left behind on the earth all being destroyed, which I proved by showing what Jesus was talking about just before that in Luke 17:26-30. Where do you get from what I said there that I'm saying something about becoming "free of the bonds and instincts of the flesh to become truly one with God again?".

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Two men in one bed. They are in bed because they are sick. Suffering from famine. One dies while the other lives. The two women grinding are preparing food. Famine. One dies of famine while the other lives. The two men are in a field, in the open without nowhere to hide. One is killed while the other lives. They've been attacked by an army.

Luk 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

When the Romans ultimately captured Jerusalem and destroyed the temple they carried their ensigns -containing their gold eagles- and leaned them against the temple wall and worshipped them. The "carcass" was the dead body of Jerusalem as represented by the temple. It was permanently destroyed, finally ending the old covenant.

Heb 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

If it's talking about two, uh, people being in one bed and both are sick what does that have to do with Luke 21:20-21 where it talks about people fleeing to the mountains? Doesn't that passage show that one must flee to the mountains in order to survive? How does the person who is sick in bed survive if that verse is supposed to be related to Luke 21:20-21 (I don't believe it is)? Such a person would not be able to flee to the mountains in order to survive.

If it's talking about two people being in a field with nowhere to hide with one being killed and one surviving (I agree that is what it is saying), how is that related to Luke 21:20-21? Why wouldn't both of them be killed if they both had nowhere to hide and were both attacked? Luke 21:20-21 talks about fleeing to the mountains to survive, but someone in the field with nowhere to hide would not be able to do that. They would be killed before being able to flee to the mountains.

 

[Postvieww]

Luke 17:31-37 KJV
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24:36-47 KJV
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

These cannot be about the rapture? It is bad to be taken, right?

No these are not pre-trib rapture passages. Lot’s wife was taken Lot remained. Noah was saved the rest were taken . Consider Revelation 19:17-18 and Ezekiel 39: 17 as compared to Luke 17:37. A place where fowls are eating flesh is nowhere the righteous will be taken.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

From NLT with note j,k
Luke 17:31-37
31On that day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home. 32Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! 33If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it. 34That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. 35Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.i”

37“Where will this happen, Lord?”j the disciples asked.

Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.”k

j17:37a Greek “Where, Lord?”
k17:37b Greek “Wherever the carcass is, the vultures gather.”

Perhaps the good taking is by not going home at midday, and the bad fate is for some later that night?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Luke 17 KJV + Strong's