What translation is the best?

[SabbathBlessings]

Some Bibles print the OT quotes in the NT in bold. I really like that. I was startled the first time I saw a Bible like that how much the whole NT & not just the Gospels, quote the OT.

Yes, why Jesus said this quoting from the OT

Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

It would be impossible to understand the NT without the OT , its all God's Word.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, why Jesus said this quoting from the OT

Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

It would be impossible to understand the NT without the OT , its all God's Word.

But to keep your peace of mind, you must never check the OT quotes with the actual OT. Or else your view of "God's Word" will be put in danger.

Most/all translations use inconsistent source texts.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Perhaps for those who don't understand

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

So I am not trying to turn this thread into a debate but since you brought this up I thought we could look at a couple KJV verses who I think got it right over the ESV/NASB

Both ESV/NASB in the Ten Commandments uses "a" Sabbath in the 4th commandment Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God.

In the KJV/NKJV both uses"the" Sabbath Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God

To me, there is a big difference between say for example, a pen, or the pen. The first applies to any pen, the second applies to only one. There are more than one sabbath in Scripture the yearly sabbaths that came after the fall, but there is only one weekly Sabbath that is one of the Ten Commandments and points and started at Creation Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 and it is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:10

If we look at the Hebrew word here it translates into the Sabbath

shabbath: Sabbath
Original Word: שַׁבָּת
Part of Speech: Noun
Transliteration: shabbath
Pronunciation: shah-BAHTH
Phonetic Spelling: (shab-bawth')
Definition: Sabbath
Meaning: intermission, the Sabbath

Which is the same in Isa 58:13, the Sabbath is the holy day of the Lord, not a holy day of the Lord, so to me there is a big difference.

Like I said no Bible is perfect, including the KJV and I think any word-for-word Bible we can find God's Truth but we do need to be careful because all translations use their own bias in translating so we need to seek diligently the context and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us and be willing to do so, once He reveals Truth.


God bless!

The seventh day is indeed God's Sabbath, but when one looks at the Hebrew the ESV/NASB translations look correct while the KJV/NKJV insert the definite article ('the') into the translation that isn't present in the text:

The ה is missing here in front of 'sabbath' so the literal meaning is 'a', and not 'the'. it should also be noted that the word 'sabbath' in itself does not refer necessarily to a day; it's just a noun that means rest/stop. So the 7th day is a rest/stop for YHWH. There are no manuscript variations in Hebrew that could account for this difference in translation.

It should be noted that the LXX Hebrew-to-Greek translation from 3rd century BCE by the Jewish Rabbis in Alexandria also follow the Hebrew text strictly for Exodus 20:10 and omit 'the' - the LXX is consistent with the ESV/NASB.

The KJV/NKJV translation choice for this verse is an excellent example of injecting a certain idea into the text while this is completely unnecessary from a translation point of view.

PS: I'm not really into Bible Translations 'wars' as no translation is perfect - never rely on just a translation. The KJV/NKJV-only movement is a bit silly from a non-English speaking perspective anyway. But as you mentioned this particular verse to illustrate the supposed superiority of the KJV/NKJV it's very hard to resist showing that the text actually says. Anyway I still do appreciate the fairly literal approach of the 17th century era Bible Translations .. they were great for their day. Just in our era the ESV/NASB/LSB are similarly literal but do incorporate more recent Manuscript findings and are compatible with 21st century English.

 

[trophy33]

Perhaps for those who don't understand

It is you who does not understand the issue. And use the reply button, when reacting to a post of somebody. You are not new here to not know that.

 

[trophy33]

It should be noted that the LXX Hebrew-to-Greek translation from 3rd century BCE by the Jewish Rabbis in Alexandria also follow the Hebrew text strictly

Just a note: There was a hypothesis before that, the LXX is a "bad", rather liberal translation of the Masoretic text. But after the discovery of the DSS, it is now clear that the LXX and the Masoretic texts are two different textual lines.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The seventh day is indeed God's Sabbath, but when one looks at the Hebrew the ESV/NASB translations look correct while the KJV/NKJV insert the definite article ('the') into the translation that isn't present in the text:

View attachment 364677

The ה is missing here in front of 'sabbath' so the literal meaning is 'a', and not 'the'. it should also be noted that the word 'sabbath' in itself does not refer necessarily to a day; it's just a noun that means rest/stop. So the 7th day is a rest/stop for YHWH. There are no manuscript variations in Hebrew that could account for this difference in translation.

It should be noted that the LXX Hebrew-to-Greek translation from 3rd century BCE by the Jewish Rabbis in Alexandria also follow the Hebrew text strictly for Exodus 20:10 and omit 'the' - the LXX is consistent with the ESV/NASB.

The KJV/NKJV translation choice for this verse is an excellent example of injecting a certain idea into the text while this is completely unnecessary from a translation point of view.

PS: I'm not really into Bible Translations 'wars' as no translation is perfect - never rely on just a translation. The KJV/NKJV-only movement is a bit silly from a non-English speaking perspective anyway. But as you mentioned this particular verse to illustrate the supposed superiority of the KJV/NKJV it's very hard to resist showing that the text actually says. Anyway I still do appreciate the fairly literal approach of the 17th century era Bible Translations .. they were great for their day. Just in our era the ESV/NASB/LSB are similarly literal but do incorporate more recent Manuscript findings and are compatible with 21st century English.

Its the same word in Exo 20:8 and Isa 58:13

NASB was right here using the same word

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

and here

EVS “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;

NASB “If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot From doing as you wish on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the LORD honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,

KJV Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,

All using the same word as in verse Exo 20:10

shabbath: Sabbath
Original Word: שַׁבָּת
Part of Speech: Noun
Transliteration: shabbath
Pronunciation: shah-BAHTH
Phonetic Spelling: (shab-bawth')
Definition: Sabbath
Meaning: intermission, the Sabbath

Its very clear it is the Sabbath, the holy day of the Lord, not "a" Sabbath or a holy day of the Lord.

There is a big difference between "a" and "the"

God is referring to the Sabbath and points back to creation, there is only one Sabbath then, not many and since this is law a commandment, it is precise. The Sabbath, not a Sabbath

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've been praying lately and do ask for prayers on this too as well. I want to know what translation of the bible is best. I've been praying that I be guided into the translation thats best for my walk with God? I dont know if that means I'm also asking by extension the best preserved/literal/closest to the original manuscripts. I just want to know and am asking for advice and guidance along with some info. I'm inviting people on here to present their case for why the translation that they recommended is best. What makes you choose your translation? I'm asking for good solid evidence, thanks.

From what I’ve seen I think the NASB is probably the most accurate when it comes to following the manuscripts without adding any commentary or interpretation into the passages. And it’s written in a way that’s very easy to read and understand. The NLT version is easy to read but poorly translated in some places and the KJV can be hard to read and has interpretations injected into the text that does not coincide with the original manuscripts. Like for example 2 Samuel 21:19 in the KJV says that Elhanan killed the brother of Goliath but that’s not what the original manuscripts actually say. They changed what was originally written because they believed it to be an error but none of the manuscripts say the brother of Goliath. The reason they changed it is because of 1 Chronicles 20:5. But these could’ve been different battles. If it was an error I think the Jews would’ve corrected it centuries ago. Even the Septuagint says Elhanan killed Goliath. Obviously it’s not the same Goliath that David killed because this took place after David was crowned as king.

 

[trophy33]

Even the Septuagint says Elhanan killed Goliath. Obviously it’s not the same Goliath that David killed because this took place after David was crowned as king.

Or the corruption of the text happened before the LXX and the proto-Masoretic textual families split.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Or the corruption of the text happened before the LXX and the proto-Masoretic textual families split.

Yeah well that the difference between translation and interpretation. If the OP is looking for an accurate translation then the NASB would be my recommendation.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I prefer word for word translations like KJV, NKJV, NASB over thought for thought like NIV or some of the others, I personally would avoid any Bible written after 2000 or idea-for-idea bibles. Many of the translators have added to the Bible that has changed the meaning of God's Word. For me personally I like the NKJV and the KJV. No Bible is 100% perfect so I do like to look at other translations on harder verses. The best thing to do before reading the Bible is pray and ask that the Holy Spirit guide you in all Truth and let the Bible be the one to guide you, not all the noise that is around us. God bless!

View attachment 364581

Agree on using more formal translations for serious bible studies, such as Nasb, Esv, Nkjv, Kjv, but also can use those like Csb/Niv to do more "casual reading"

Best bible version is one that you can read and understand

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Its the same word in Exo 20:8 and Isa 58:13

NASB was right here using the same word

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

and here

EVS “If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;

NASB “If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot From doing as you wish on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the LORD honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,

KJV Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,

All using the same word as in verse Exo 20:10

shabbath: Sabbath
Original Word: שַׁבָּת
Part of Speech: Noun
Transliteration: shabbath
Pronunciation: shah-BAHTH
Phonetic Spelling: (shab-bawth')
Definition: Sabbath
Meaning: intermission, the Sabbath

Its very clear it is the Sabbath, the holy day of the Lord, not "a" Sabbath or a holy day of the Lord.

There is a big difference between "a" and "the"

God is referring to the Sabbath and points back to creation, there is only one Sabbath then, not many and since this is law a commandment, it is precise. The Sabbath, not a Sabbath

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We agree the 7th day rest / Sabbath is an important instruction - but I don't know any verses that set a ranking amoung the 7th day Sabbath and the other Sabbath periods mentioned in the TNK (e.g. Leviticus 16:31, Leviticus 23:24, Leviticus 25:4, Lamentations 2:6). The noun 'sabbath' in Exodus 20:8 is used as a generic word for rest/stop but applied to the 7th day. That's why the literal 'a' rendering makes perfect sense.

It seems you're relying too much on just the translations and the individual word - in Isaiah 58:13 the word Sabbath is used but in a different form - there the definite article (the) is also missing and the word 'mishabbath' (from-sabbath) here could be interpreted as a generic noun for rest/stop or as a shorthand for the actual 7th Sabbath-day. But just the fact that several translations use 'the' in Isa 58:13 cannot be taken as proof that 'the' should also be used for Exodus 20:10. Translating does not work that way - your approach to it scares me to be honest.

Exodus 20:8 is a completely different case - the definite article (the) does appear in the text there - so for that verse the ESV translators consequently use 'the' in the translation. By no means do the ESV translators show inconsistent/unexplained translation-choices for these verses while this is true unfortunately for KJV/NKJV. See the Hebrew for Exodus 20:8 and observe how it is different from 20:10:

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We agree the 7th day rest / Sabbath is an important instruction - but I don't know any verses that set a ranking amoung the 7th day Sabbath and the other Sabbath periods mentioned in the TNK (e.g. Leviticus 16:31, Leviticus 23:24, Leviticus 25:4, Lamentations 2:6). The noun 'sabbath' in Exodus 20:8 is used as a generic word for rest/stop but applied to the 7th day. That's why the literal 'a' rendering makes perfect sense.

It seems you're relying too much on just the translations and the individual word - in Isaiah 58:13 the word Sabbath is used but in a different form - there the definite article (the) is also missing and the word 'mishabbath' (from-sabbath) here could be interpreted as a generic noun for rest/stop or as a shorthand for the actual 7th Sabbath-day. But just the fact that several translations use 'the' in Isa 58:13 cannot be taken as proof that 'the' should also be used for Exodus 20:10. Translating does not work that way - your approach to it scares me to be honest.

Exodus 20:8 is a completely different case - the definite article (the) does appear in the text there - so for that verse the ESV translators consequently use 'the' in the translation. By no means do the ESV translators show inconsistent/unexplained translation-choices for these verses while this is true unfortunately for KJV/NKJV. See the Hebrew for Exodus 20:8 and observe how it is different from 20:10:

View attachment 364792

I believe context will always trump everything else. In Exo 20:10 it is referring to the Sabbath of Creation and we see this also by "Remember" v8, the next verse makes that clear and there were not "many sabbaths' Exo 20:11 just one. Gen 2:1-3 so "a" sabbath is inappropriate but "the" Sabbath is since there was only one at that time, which is why I believe the NKJV and KJV got this right and NASB did not. I am okay agreeing to disagree though and appreciate your thoughts.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I believe context will always trump everything else. In Exo 20:10 it is referring to the Sabbath of Creation and we see this also by "Remember" v8, the next verse makes that clear and there were not "many sabbaths' Exo 20:11 just one. Gen 2:1-3 so "a" sabbath is inappropriate but "the" Sabbath is since there was only one at that time, which is why I believe the NKJV and KJV got this right and NASB did not. I am okay agreeing to disagree though and appreciate your thoughts.

There were many sabbaths not just the Saturday sabbath. There’s the Saturday Sabbath, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks, the Feast of Tabernacles, and a few others as well.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There were many sabbaths not just the Saturday sabbath. There’s the Saturday Sabbath, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks, the Feast of Tabernacles, and a few others as well.

Not at Creation- Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3, what the Ten Commandments is pointing to and my whole point. The other sabbath(s) came after the fall. God called them your feasts. Only the weekly Sabbath God called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord, Isa 58:13 the meaning there's one only.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

I believe context will always trump everything else. In Exo 20:10 it is referring to the Sabbath of Creation and we see this also by "Remember" v8, the next verse makes that clear and there were not "many sabbaths' Exo 20:11 just one. Gen 2:1-3 so "a" sabbath is inappropriate but "the" Sabbath is since there was only one at that time, which is why I believe the NKJV and KJV got this right and NASB did not. I am okay agreeing to disagree though and appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks .. it's worth noting that even the Complete Jewish Bible renders Exodus 20:8 with 'but the seventh day is a Shabbat for Adonai your God. - they would know their Hebrew well. The moment you read the word 'shabbat' in that verse as a generic noun for stop/rest the missing 'the' makes perfect sense both in the original Hebrew and English translations.

The verb 'shavat' (rest/stop) is also used in the TNK as a generic term apart from the 7th day. Thanks for sharing your thoughts indeed - I'm OK with differing views/opinions - that increases our opportunity to learn.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not at Creation- Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3, what the Ten Commandments is pointing to and my whole point. The other sabbath(s) came after the fall. God called them your feasts. Only the weekly Sabbath God called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord, Isa 58:13 the meaning there's one only.

Oh, sorry I didn’t pay attention to the other posts so I didn’t know that’s what you were talking about. Yeah I would agree that the Sabbath being referred to in Exodus 20 is referring specifically to the Saturday Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks .. it's worth noting that even the Complete Jewish Bible renders Exodus 20:8 with 'but the seventh day is a Shabbat for Adonai your God. - they would know their Hebrew well. The moment you read the word 'shabbat' in that verse as a generic noun for stop/rest the missing 'the' makes perfect sense both in the original Hebrew and English translations.

The verb 'shavat' (rest/stop) is also used in the TNK as a generic term apart from the 7th day. Thanks for sharing your thoughts indeed - I'm OK with differing views/opinions - that increases our opportunity to learn.

A Sabbath wouldn't make sense when what they were referring to was the Sabbath at Creation Exo 20:11 which there is only one Sabbath at that time, 7 days ever Created. Gen 2:1-3 How confusing that would be in a commandment to say "a" Sabbath when there is only one, so "the" is more appropriate and Law needs to be precise. Even NASB used "the" in Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.


But like you said OK with differing views/opinions - that increases our opportunity to learn.

God bless!

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

A Sabbath wouldn't make sense when what they were referring to was the Sabbath at Creation Exo 20:11 which there is only one Sabbath at that time, 7 days ever Created. Gen 2:1-3 How confusing that would be in a commandment to say "a" Sabbath when there is only one, so "the" is more appropriate and Law needs to be precise. Even NASB used "the" in Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.


But like you said OK with differing views/opinions - that increases our opportunity to learn.

God bless!

Thanks, I understand your motives why you prefer the 'the' - I presume you now also understand the motives of the ESV/NASB/CJB translators to not use 'the' as it's not a random choice, but purely based on the Hebrew of that particular verse. Let's lovingly agree to disagree indeed

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Thanks, I understand your motives why you prefer the 'the' - I presume you now also understand the motives of the ESV/NASB/CJB translators to not use 'the' as it's not a random choice, but purely based on the Hebrew of that particular verse. Let's lovingly agree to disagree indeed

My motives are Biblical Truth. It’s not that I prefer “the” over “a” its what its referring to. To my point, can you please show me through Scripture where there is more than one Sabbath at Creation? Or that in the Sabbath commandment its referring to any other Sabbath other than the weekly Sabbath that started at Creation?