Pro-Palestinian supporters at Columbia University confront Jews ‘to push them out of camp’

[rambot]

Let me know when you decide to not put out Terrorist lies and propaganda.

There are no illegal actions. You aren't a Nazi but you spread lying pro terrorist propaganda.

Keep repeating it but that doesn't make it true.

You are doing their bidding and doing exactly what they want you to do.

Sure. Sure.

This is a war and people, citizens are killed in war.

Yes that's true. 70-80% of the dead are civilians in this case. Are those normal numbers?

If Gaza didn't want a war they should stop attacking and murdering jews.

When was the last major attack they did? Not counting Oct 7, they've managed to kill a "staggering" 800 Israelis. Since Oct 7 the IDF has killed 50,000.
Your characterization is dramatic and wrong

Israel had done more to try and protect rhe civilians more than almost any country.

Yes. I'm the one believing propaganda.

But rhe war crimes are rhe terrorists for hiding among the civilians and using them as shields.

You have NO idea how often Israeli government lies have been exposed do you? No. Not really.
You seem to be belabouring under the idea that Hamas is using human shields all the time and every attack by Israel is them blowing up human shields.
This is not reflective of reality.
https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields
Here is Israel's use of human shields.

Pretty distasteful hey?

An IDF unit was attacked while trying to save a civilian who was in a wheel chair. The terrorist was hiding behind her and attacked them from underneath her chair. These are the people you are sending out propaganda for.

Given the IDF's willingness to lie, what proof do you have that that took place?
Is it referring to this story? Where the heros shot at a guy in a wheelchair....with a tank?
HRW: Photos from Jenin: IDF Military Operations, 17

People who do this are the stooges for the terrorists.

And of course you are fighting the rigtheous fight.

Humanitarian aid groups don't like war anymore than anyone else. Many of those organizations are anti-Israel and support the Palestinians who are also anti-Semetic.

Wow! That is incredibly convinient to just say that! And of course everyone ELSE is spouting propaganda...all those aid groups; those international bodies. They are all just shills of [checks notes] a backwater terrorist group.

Pull your head out man.

It's intellectually vapid to support a people who have been attacking the Jews for decades and calling for their eradication.

Seriously? You chose the word "intellectually" vapid? No it isn't.

Why would it be "intellectually" vapid?

YOU are the one who dimisses ANY word critical of Israel as propaganda: Is that supposed to be the "intellectual high road"? pffft.

War is a brutal ugly thing and I don't see all these so called humanitarian groups calling for Hamas to stop using civilians and civilian places as shields for their terrorist war against Israel.

It's because they don't do it as often as you think they do.

Are they all demanding the release of Jewish hostages and the immediate surrender of Hamas? No, all they do is whine about Israel because they are anti-Semetic as well. Despite the fact that their aid is being stolen from the people by Hamas. Where is their complaints about that?

I'm actually wanting to hear REPORTS about it. I've heard it HAS happenned and obviously, I find that pretty shameful.
Releasing hostages would be great. Assuming the hostages are alive.

Now how about Israel stops using Palestinians as human shields.

In every war, every army fights and individual soldiers do things that aren't always within bounds. In this case there is a LARGE deliberate misrepresentation of what Israel is doing and has done to try and mitigate civilian casualties while NO consideration is given to the fact that the Palastinians are fighting using human shields, hospitals and housing to conduct their war against Israel.

What a professorial proclamation.....and look at all the evidence you have to support.
At no point am I about to argue that Hamas are good upstanding people. They are also awful.

To continue to post information and support the propaganda of rhe terrorists is pure anti-Semitism.

If you're going to dismiss video evidence as "pure propaganda", what can I tell you. I need to believe my eyes.


FYI....I doubt I'll reply to this again. I'll start repeating myself more and then there's no point.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't see any reason to. Unless what they say can be verified by other sources. In this case, the history of the modern state of Israel is well known and documented. One need not rely on HAMAS propaganda or excuse their vicious behavior to see clearly that identifying anti-Zionism with anti-semitism is a lie primarily fostered by Christians.

The state of Israel is an enigma. I think it's best to leave it at that without being too assured either positively or negatively over its theological or prophetic significance.

At the end of the day, it would be grand however if everyone in the Middle-east could live and let live and turn their swords into plowshares.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Can you think of some ways in which you're misconstruing the relationship of interest in "Jewish History"----as it probably should be in toto for any Christian-----for its direct connection to fulfillment in Jesus Christ?

More of your silly socratic games, sigh.

I can. And no, it's far from being disrespectful. If anything, it's very respectful of the oracles of God delivered to the Israelites and kept by their Jewish descendants. I can't help it if you simply don't care about that.

To the extent that they are, they are practicing their religion. At least that's a far sight better than having someone abscond with it, but for the 99.9% of the world that isn't Jewish, that is not a good reason to care about their old "oracles".

I was rather thinking the same thing about physical reductionism.

No reduction is needed.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

More of your silly socratic games, sigh.

No, it's not a Socratic game. Maybe try not to reach for terms in Philosophy that you'll misapply, and I'll try not to reach for terms in Physics that I might misapply. If there's a game to recognize, I'm going to do it more in the vein of Wittgenstein, not Socrates.

To the extent that they are, they are practicing their religion. At least that's a far sight better than having someone abscond with it, but for the 99.9% of the world that isn't Jewish, that is not a good reason to care about their old "oracles".

Christianity began as a Jewish faith that, by definition, immediately became open to bringing in the Gentile world. Did you miss that bit of Christian theology when you were in the Catholic Church?

No reduction is needed.

You and I have different perspectives on the overall nature of science, Hans. Just leave it a that.

 

[BCP1928]

The state of Israel is an enigma. I think it's best to leave it at that without being too assured either positively or negatively over its theological or prophetic significance.

At the end of the day, it would be grand however if everyone in the Middle-east could live and let live and turn their swords into plowshares.

That would be nice. Are you suggesting that we give them back to Turkey?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That would be nice. Are you suggesting that we give them back to Turkey?

I'm not going to be the armchair arbiter of how things should, or could, shake down in the Middle-east. Only the Lord is the Arbiter on that.

 

[BCP1928]

I'm not going to be the armchair arbiter of how things should, or could, shake down in the Middle-east. Only the Lord is the Arbiter on that.

We could help the Lord out quite a bit by not insisting that anti-Zionism is the same as anti-semitism. Perhaps then Jews could live in Peace in the middle East again. Pretending that it's a religious war doesn't do our foreign policy situation much good, either. We give the distinct impression of supporting Israel because they are fighting Muslims, which doesn't do our long term relation with Muslim countries much good.

 

[Hans Blaster]

No, it's not a Socratic game. Maybe try not to reach for terms in Philosophy that you'll misapply, and I'll try not to reach for terms in Physics that I might misapply. If there's a game to recognize, I'm going to do it more in the vein of Wittgenstein, not Socrates.

I care not to use "philosophy", but was referring to the "socratic method" of "instruction" which you seem to have used several times in this conversation -- pressing me with questions not to learn something or even find out what I thought, but to get me to give "the right answer".

Christianity began as a Jewish faith that, by definition, immediately became open to bringing in the Gentile world. Did you miss that bit of Christian theology when you were in the Catholic Church?

There are some here who like to blame the exit of myself and so many others on poor teaching during our youths on the doctrine of the Church, but the presentation in class, and more importantly in Sunday Mass, was quite clear about pre-Roman Jewish history and culture being in service of the Universal Church. Was the history of the Jews that *didn't* accept Jesus discussed, not at all, and that is key to my point. The whole of Christian religion treats Jewish history as a path to Jesus. After that, well things vary. Some ignore it (as was in the case of the things I recieved), but those that don't too often look at Jews as people who "saw the truth" of Jesus and rejected him or worse as we have already discussed.

This thread (and so many other discussions of Hamas 2023 attacks and everything that flowed from it) include a lot of arguments that opposing current Israeli policy towards the Palestinians as "anti-Semetic", yet so many of those equating defense of the rights of Palestinians or anti-Zionism or Netenyahu or the settler movement with anti-Semitism are themselves "Christian Zionists", a religion-political position that treats the state of Israel and the Jewish people as nothing more than pawns in some great plan to end the world. (Disturbingly, they look forward to such.) More of the same denial of Jewish agency in a Christian theology.

You and I have different perspectives on the overall nature of science, Hans. Just leave it a that.

Only if you stop bringing it up.

 

[rambot]

Christianity began as a Jewish faith that, by definition, immediately became open to bringing in the Gentile world. Did you miss that bit of Christian theology when you were in the Catholic Church?

Hmm.... I'm not sure what you mean when you say "began as a Jewish Faith"; Do you mean a Sect of Judaism?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I care not to use "philosophy", but was referring to the "socratic method" of "instruction" which you seem to have used several times in this conversation -- pressing me with questions not to learn something or even find out what I thought, but to get me to give "the right answer".

Again, you're wrong. That's not what I was doing with "MY" questions. I was prompting you to do that which you don't want to do------historical research.

But, go do 'you,' Hans. Go do you.

There are some here who like to blame the exit of myself and so many others on poor teaching during our youths on the doctrine of the Church, but the presentation in class, and more importantly in Sunday Mass, was quite clear about pre-Roman Jewish history and culture being in service of the Universal Church. Was the history of the Jews that *didn't* accept Jesus discussed, not at all, and that is key to my point. The whole of Christian religion treats Jewish history as a path to Jesus. After that, well things vary. Some ignore it (as was in the case of the things I recieved), but those that don't too often look at Jews as people who "saw the truth" of Jesus and rejected him or worse as we have already discussed.

You're missing my point that I study BOTH sides of any issue----and alternative viewpoints----not just the one. You don't seem to be catching my drift on this. You seem to want to dispatch me into an easy category to be shelved along with all others whom you think I associate with (but really don't), or whom you think I myopically 'receive orders' ideologically (also, which I don't).

This thread (and so many other discussions of Hamas 2023 attacks and everything that flowed from it) include a lot of arguments that opposing current Israeli policy towards the Palestinians as "anti-Semetic", yet so many of those equating defense of the rights of Palestinians or anti-Zionism or Netenyahu or the settler movement with anti-Semitism are themselves "Christian Zionists", a religion-political position that treats the state of Israel and the Jewish people as nothing more than pawns in some great plan to end the world. (Disturbingly, they look forward to such.) More of the same denial of Jewish agency in a Christian theology.

What's currently going on since Oct 7, 2023 is yet one more instance of a long, ongoing, building animosity. It's not something new, nor is it something that can be solved via a bunch of 'modern human rights' assumptions. It would be nice if it could be, but to think in that way is to miss the deeper picture of inherent conflicts in ideologies and religion.

Only if you stop bringing it up.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

We could help the Lord out quite a bit by not insisting that anti-Zionism is the same as anti-semitism. Perhaps then Jews could live in Peace in the middle East again. Pretending that it's a religious war doesn't do our foreign policy situation much good, either. We give the distinct impression of supporting Israel because they are fighting Muslims, which doesn't do our long term relation with Muslim countries much good.

So, you want me to make my neutral stance one which, instead, becomes predominantly 'sided' politically and ideologically.

The problem is that I see too much of a huge stew of multiple issues in the whole long-running middle-east conflict(s). Nothing can be resolved by focusing on one ideological or political strand, however much the U.N. or Europe, or others, would insist it be boiled down to.

But yeah. I know very well that non-Zionism isn't the same as anti-semitism.

 

[BCP1928]

Again, you're wrong. That's not what I was doing with "MY" questions. I was prompting you to do that which you don't want to do------historical research.

But, go do 'you,' Hans. Go do you.

You're missing my point that I study BOTH sides of any issue----and alternative viewpoints----not just the one. You don't seem to be catching my drift on this. You seem to want to dispatch me into an easy category to be shelved along with all others whom you think I associate with (but really don't), or whom you think I myopically 'receive orders' ideologically (also, which I don't).

What's currently going on since Oct 7, 2023 is yet one more instance of a long, ongoing, building animosity. It's not something new, nor is it something that can be solved via a bunch of 'modern human rights' assumptions.

Yes, it's been building a long time--since 1918 at least.

It would be nice if it could be, but to think in that way is to miss the deeper picture of inherent conflicts in ideologies and religion.

Indeed, we wouldn't want to miss those--we wouldn't be able to aggravate them else.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hmm.... I'm not sure what you mean when you say "began as a Jewish Faith"; Do you mean a Sect of Judaism?

Yes.

 

[BCP1928]

So, you want me to make my neutral stance one which, instead, becomes predominantly 'sided' politically and ideologically.

The problem is that I see too much of a huge stew of multiple issues in the whole long-running middle-east conflict(s). Nothing can be resolved by focusing on one ideological or political strand, however much the U.N. or Europe, or others, would insist it be boiled down to.

Not now, we've made too much of a mess of it. I just don't like having to pretend that the Jews are the blameless victims of a vicious Jihad that is directed against them as surrogates for us Christians.

But yeah. I know very well that non-Zionism isn't the same as anti-semitism.

Be careful, the President has established a task force to stamp out that kind of seditious talk.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, it's been building a long time--since 1918 at least.

More like the lifetime of Theodore Herzl.

History of Zionism - Wikipedia

Indeed, we wouldn't want to miss those--we wouldn't be able to aggravate them else.

Someone's going to get aggravated, no matter what "we" do. Remember 9/11?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Again, you're wrong. That's not what I was doing with "MY" questions. I was prompting you to do that which you don't want to do------historical research.

But, go do 'you,' Hans. Go do you.

Every part of our interaction has been about or around theology and the story of Jesus and how it relates to Western (Christian) anti-semitism. There is no history to discuss here. (If you think other wise on those topics, please be explicit.)

You're missing my point that I study BOTH sides of any issue----and alternative viewpoints----not just the one. You don't seem to be catching my drift on this.

That is the main problem with your posts. I don't know why, but I just don't get your "drift" so frequently. My most favorable assessment is that you incorrectly assume that I know things (or think of them when a particular phrasing is used), when I don't.

You seem to want to dispatch me into an easy category to be shelved along with all others whom you think I associate with (but really don't), or whom you think I myopically 'receive orders' ideologically (also, which I don't).

Talk about making bad assumptions.

What's currently going on since Oct 7, 2023 is yet one more instance of a long, ongoing, building animosity. It's not something new, nor is it something that can be solved via a bunch of 'modern human rights' assumptions. It would be nice if it could be, but to think in that way is to miss the deeper picture of inherent conflicts in ideologies and religion.

Which doesn't have anything to do with Christian theology or the story of Jesus. Even when I think you might be referencing something else, I can't tell because you wrap it in theology or Christian assumptions (like all of the mentions of prophecy, which you might recall I hold in low regard categorically.)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Not now, we've made too much of a mess of it. I just don't like having to pretend that the Jews are the blameless victims of a vicious Jihad that is directed against them as surrogates for us Christians.

The thing is, it's always been a bigger issue than just what happened in late 2023.

Be careful, the President has established a task force to stamp out that kind of seditious talk.

Well, then if so, he'll be stamping on Christians like The Bible Answer Man, Hank Hanegraff, since Hanegraff is a Partial Preterist who doesn't see legitimacy in Israel and all of its actions. That is, unless he's changed his position since publishing The Apocalypse Code back in 2007.

 

[BCP1928]

The thing is, it's always been a bigger issue than just what happened in late 2023.

Not for the present administration who see the vicious HAMAS attack as an unprecedented eruption of violence against a peaceful neigbor.

Well, then if so, he'll be stamping on Christians like The Bible Answer Man, Hank Hanegraff, since Hanegraff is a Partial Preterist who doesn't see legitimacy in Israel and all of its actions. That is, unless he's changed his position since publishing The Apocalypse Code back in 2007.

Be patient, they'll get around to it. If not, his partial preterism is also unacceptable to the President's religious freedom task force.

 

[RDKirk]

We could help the Lord out quite a bit by not insisting that anti-Zionism is the same as anti-semitism. Perhaps then Jews could live in Peace in the middle East again. Pretending that it's a religious war doesn't do our foreign policy situation much good, either. We give the distinct impression of supporting Israel because they are fighting Muslims, which doesn't do our long term relation with Muslim countries much good.

There is even a loyal Israeli political opposition to Zionism.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You were talking about the squad there bud. Remember?

Actually, this is what I was referring to:
#38
No, this is my original comment:
They became "The Squad". Went from being racists to being anti-semitic. Like a snake shedding its skin; it is still a snake.
We.....well, you were talking about Dixiecrats.
You were attempting to replace anti-semitic with anti-zionism. I pointed out that so called 'palestinians' believe they are the same and teach their children to hate Jews and that martyrdom in killing Jews is a good thing.....neither of which you have denied.