Do you believe that Trump has an ACTUAL plan?

[BeyondET]

While I have no issue with this, I have to question the point of your story.



The story seems to push the idea that "China manufacturing bad" and "America manufacturing good." Instead, the truth is what you say above, that products from the same country can vary in quality based on the process and supervision of the construction. There was a time, particularly in the 80s, when people tended to avoid American cars because they had a horrible build quality. Over the decades those legacy manufacturers have largely worked to improve it, though there are still some exceptions.

As an example, Tesla is known for poor build quality. While it has been a few years, my recollection is that when the Model Y was first sold, various owners had issues with the windshield falling out -- the workers had forgotten to "glue" the windshield in place. There was also an issue where the windows would be put under too much pressure and a window would shatter and fall out while driving, such as this story, which eventually led to Tesla having a recall of over a million vehicles. More recently, there have been the issues with Cybertruck panels falling off, which has become another recall.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of bring manufacturing back to the US -- and was even critical of how companies were outsourcing manufacturing back in the 80s (when they tried to teach us that "greed is good"). It's just, as others have pointed out, Trump's seemingly wishy-washy moves with tariffs is preventing companies from wanting to try and invest in US factories.

The 80's was a odd time, wanting more reliable vehicles got us vehicles that ran good but rotted out before the engine died hehe.

 

[SimplyMe]

The 80's was a odd time, wanting more reliable vehicles got us vehicles that ran good but rotted out before the engine died hehe.

I lived in Europe for half the 80s, which in retrospect may have been a good thing. Among the things I missed out on is "Where's the Beef?" -- I think the only place I may have seen it, to this day, was on some "best commercials" show; which made me think I didn't miss much during my time in Europe.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

While I have no issue with this, I have to question the point of your story.



The story seems to push the idea that "China manufacturing bad" and "America manufacturing good." Instead, the truth is what you say above, that products from the same country can vary in quality based on the process and supervision of the construction. There was a time, particularly in the 80s, when people tended to avoid American cars because they had a horrible build quality. Over the decades those legacy manufacturers have largely worked to improve it, though there are still some exceptions.

As an example, Tesla is known for poor build quality. While it has been a few years, my recollection is that when the Model Y was first sold, various owners had issues with the windshield falling out -- the workers had forgotten to "glue" the windshield in place. There was also an issue where the windows would be put under too much pressure and a window would shatter and fall out while driving, such as this story, which eventually led to Tesla having a recall of over a million vehicles. More recently, there have been the issues with Cybertruck panels falling off, which has become another recall.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of bring manufacturing back to the US -- and was even critical of how companies were outsourcing manufacturing back in the 80s (when they tried to teach us that "greed is good"). It's just, as others have pointed out, Trump's seemingly wishy-washy moves with tariffs is preventing companies from wanting to try and invest in US factories.

The point wasn't really that Chinese goods are bad. I do have some Chinese things that are better than comparable US made goods. It's more that some American consumers are cheap and if jobs and products were brought back people that can afford the higher cost will still go for cheap. I see thousand dollar cameras with cheap lenses, $10,000 rifles with $80 scopes, and million dollar yachts with dollar store lifesaving equipment.

 

[SimplyMe]

The point wasn't really that Chinese goods are bad. I do have some Chinese things that are better than comparable US made goods. It's more that some American consumers are cheap and if jobs and products were brought back people that can afford the higher cost will still go for cheap. I see thousand dollar cameras with cheap lenses, $10,000 rifles with $80 scopes, and million dollar yachts with dollar store lifesaving equipment.

I can agree with that. I remember back (I believe the '90s) when Walmart was pushing products "Made in America." The issue was that their customers appeared to want lower prices more than "Made in America," which is why their stores are so full of Chinese goods today.

 

[Fantine]

I am glad, Linux Poet, that you have found Biblically that racism is an intrinsic evil.
We must oppose intrinsic evils--racism, abortion--but where each party facilitates an intrinsic evil, we must look at extrinsic evil. That makes it easy for me, because one party supports so much more extrinsic evil than the other.
"Sensible gun control" does not prohibit hunting. Why do you want to allow dangerous people to own guns and turn our cities and schools into graveyards?
I don't know Bloomberg's position on abortion, and the Talmud is inconclusive. Their position is described as "nuanced" depending on circumstances. But in a religiously pluralistic country, why would you condemn Bloomberg for basing his morality on his faith instead of yours? What you seem to want is a Christian nationalist theocracy.
Finally, environmentalists have prevented famines, provided clean water, saved billions in energy costs, and saved lives that would have been hit by chemical and pollution exposure.
Your criticism of Bloomberg is based on misinterpretation.

 

[timothyu]

How do you stop a nation determined to rule the world?

You're American. Tell us why everyone failed with you

 

[ozso]

"plenty"....there's a LOT of ways to interpret that.

"My student had plenty of lice crawling around on her head". For some people, 4 lice would be plenty. For some, that number would be close to 1...for some 50.

Oh okay. I meant many as in lots of. Considering the reference, that should have been a forgone conclusion.

Just like last time he was in charge.

His list of stupid acts just grows. IT doesn't have to be a conspiracy when he does all this right in front of your eyes.

Yes, there's hyperbolic highly partisan misinformation that gets put out and people believe whatever the source tells them.

 

[rambot]

Oh okay. I meant many as in lots of. Considering the reference, that should have been a forgone conclusion.

Yes, there's hyperbolic highly partisan misinformation that gets put out and people believe whatever the source tells them.

Like this?

Um, It Turns Out No One at the Ports Is Collecting Trump’s Tariffs

 

[ozso]

Like this?

Um, It Turns Out No One at the Ports Is Collecting Trump’s Tariffs

Where's the diabolical plot?

 

[trophy33]

You biuld a manufacturing plant people will apply.

Some poor people will apply, yes. But those are also frequently obese, unhealthy, slow, with back pain and basically unfit for manual work.

 

[linux.poet]

I am glad, Linux Poet, that you have found Biblically that racism is an intrinsic evil.

Yes. Ironically, the secularists in public school (who are liberals) wanted to use the Crusades to blame racism on the Catholics, and then they wanted to blame racism on Christianity using the examples of North American conquering and African colonialism.

Having solid Scriptural research was important to break that lie down for them, as I’m Protestant and that’s what we do, memorize and quote Scripture. It would behoove you in an academic context to have the quote from the Magistrium or other Catholic sources where racism is described as an intrinsic evil. But it’s a point where the Catholics and Protestants actually agree.

"Sensible gun control" does not prohibit hunting. Why do you want to allow dangerous people to own guns and turn our cities and schools into graveyards?

If the guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. What makes you think criminals get their arms from the same place as hunters? They want arms/bullets that can’t be traced back to them and they need illegal equipment like silencers.

There are plenty of students who have been harassed at school for having hunting knives in their backpacks when they had no intent to use them to harm anyone. The difference between a hunter and a killer is psychological, it has nothing to do with the availability of equipment. Stopping school shooters is a matter of timely and accurate mental health treatment.

It also has to do with beliefs. All of the school shootings I’ve heard about are in public schools, not Christian or Catholic schools. Teaching young people proper beliefs and proper emotional regulation is how we stop people from committing atrocities and crimes.

I don't know Bloomberg's position on abortion, and the Talmud is inconclusive. Their position is described as "nuanced" depending on circumstances. But in a religiously pluralistic country, why would you condemn Bloomberg for basing his morality on his faith instead of yours? What you seem to want is a Christian nationalist theocracy.

No, I am speaking to believers in Christ as a caution about how we should approach politics. At no point should we allow our political beliefs to take priority over our faith in Christ. Enmeshing the two is also a trap, because neither American political party is fully aligned with Christian beliefs.

I am not criticizing Bloomberg, but rather providing the caution against making assumptions about his moral character based his political actions. Those actions can be done for personal gain or to appeal to others or improve appearance, common unbeliever motivations. Frankly, since he is an unbeliever, there is no good in him, truly, no matter how subtle he makes his evils.

For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our wrongdoings, like the wind, take us away. There is no one who calls on Your name,
Who stirs himself to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us
And have surrendered us to the power of our wrongdoings.

This verse set describes the Jewish people, and I need go no further in my argument for Bloomberg, as he is one of them. Not that I would claim superiority; for I am nothing more than a lowly Gentile who is worse than this in a fallen state. I stand here in the power of the Holy Spirit and His gracious provision of training in Scripture and its meaning. Without that, I would be in a jail cell by now, I would be among the ones you fear. But Christ chose to save me instead.

That makes it easy for me, because one party supports so much more extrinsic evil than the other.

Extrinsic evil is just another word for abuse and victimization, aka being sinned against. While I maintain that God not only has to save us from the sins we have committed, but also from the sins committed against us, that doesn’t change the fact that I believe that all evil is intrinsic. If someone punches me in the jaw, the evil of face punching is intrinsic to them.

Taking the idea of extrinsic evil too far supports Jungian and Freudian psychology, which is unbiblical because it maintains that man is basically good.

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of mankindTo see if there is anyone who understands,Who seeks after God. Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

Therefore, man is basically evil, and Freud and Jung are wrong. I have an English B.A. and we studied the effects of Freudian and Jungian psychology on literature, so I’m actually professionally qualified to tell you at this point: Jung and Christ are oil and water, they contradict each other and they don’t mix.

This experience of secular college is why I have a hard time understanding how a Christian could ever take a liberal political position. On the other hand, I’ve suffered enough from conservatives withdrawing financial support, engaging in verbal and physical assault and telling me I deserved it for being stupid to get the picture that they weren’t exactly acting in my best interest either.

The line between victimization and stupidity has to be correctly evaluated on a case by case basis, because the abusers will always claim their victims deserved it. On the other hand, there is a difference between a bozo whining about his stock market losses and a mentally ill girl complaining about her father whining about her parents withdrawing financial support to force her to quit college. Saving stupid people doesn’t teach them anything. It just reinforces their laziness. Saving a real victim means the world to them, which I think you would know. It’s a big difference.

 

[linux.poet]

Emergency tarriffs, which changne every day and will go away when the emergency is called off, won't do the job.

It does take awhile to rebuild the manufacturing base, but that shouldn't deter the goal of bringing back manufacturing in the U.S. that has been lost over the decades.

I think you would need a Constitutional Amendment to make this happen though. One Presidential election cycle of reforms won’t be enough to accomplish the goal.

You might be able to do it if you had a grassroots organization dedicated to American factory production that was willing to supply would-be small factory businesses with enough information to navigate all the red tape. Then you use that to lobby the states for an Amendment. Said hypothetical organization would need to employ lawyers and manufacturing experts. It’s not my area of expertise.

Some poor people will apply, yes. But those are also frequently obese, unhealthy, slow, with back pain and basically unfit for manual work.

The same business conditions for manufacturing and print shops don’t apply to textiles. I don’t think we should bring that industry back to the U.S. That’s just sweatshop labor, and small textile businesses can already operate out of homes using platforms like Etsy.

 

[trophy33]

The same business conditions for manufacturing and print shops don’t apply to textiles. I don’t think we should bring that industry back to the U.S. That’s just sweatshop labor, and small textile businesses can already operate out of homes using platforms like Etsy.

There was some documentary about a Chinese factory experiment in the USA, it was on Netflix, I guess. The problem was that the American workers were not effective, compared to the Asian ones. They were learning things slowly, they were not skilled, they had more requirements regarding safety etc.

If a developed country wants to have manufacturing, it will probably need to be based on automation and robotics, not on manual labor.

 

[linux.poet]

The problem was that the American workers were not effective, compared to the Asian ones. They were learning things slowly, they were not skilled, they had more requirements regarding safety etc.

Textile work is athletic and physically and mentally demanding, after just 4 hours of it I am exhausted. The factory version of it is easier because of the tedium and the fact that you don’t have to burn brainpower on design and all the exact math, but still. (And I’m not obese, I’m skinny by all rights.)

People in developing countries are used to hard physical labor all day, so it’s easier to acclimate to the factory environment. If we were going back to a manufacturing economy, the first thing to fix would be our food supply.

 

[trophy33]

Textile work is athletic and physically and mentally demanding, after just 4 hours of it I am exhausted. The factory version of it is easier because of the tedium and the fact that you don’t have to burn brainpower on design and all the exact math, but still. (And I’m not obese, I’m skinny by all rights.)

People in developing countries are used to hard physical labor all day, so it’s easier to acclimate to the factory environment. If we were going back to a manufacturing economy, the first thing to fix would be our food supply.

The documentary was about a factory producing car window glass, I think.

But I agree that fixing the US food supply is needed, in any case. Healthier countries like Germany or Poland have manufacturing jobs without such problems.

 

[linux.poet]

The documentary was about a factory producing car window glass, I think.

I was reacting to the picture you posted, it looks like the guy is sitting at a sewing machine.

 

[rambot]

Yes. Ironically, the secularists in public school (who are liberals) wanted to use the Crusades to blame racism on the Catholics, and then they wanted to blame racism on Christianity using the examples of North American conquering and African colonialism.

Uhm.
European explorers absolutely were racist though.
Almost by definition. I mean they weren't the ONLY racist people but yeah they were racist by definition ("we have to rescue these savage indigenous people").

 

[Desk trauma]

Textile work is athletic and physically and mentally demanding, after just 4 hours of it I am exhausted. The factory version of it is easier because of the tedium and the fact that you don’t have to burn brainpower on design and all the exact math, but still. (And I’m not obese, I’m skinny by all rights.)

People in developing countries are used to hard physical labor all day, so it’s easier to acclimate to the factory environment. If we were going back to a manufacturing economy, the first thing to fix would be our food supply.

Im not sure what idealized nonsense you’re operating with but the remaining textile mills in the south are staffed by people eating the same garbage as everyone else and dealing with the same levels of obesity.

 

[BeyondET]

You're American. Tell us why everyone failed with you

What do you mean, when has America wanting to conquer the world? America since the end of WW2 has protected most of the world's boarders.

 

[BeyondET]

Some poor people will apply, yes. But those are also frequently obese, unhealthy, slow, with back pain and basically unfit for manual work.

You have a sick imagination, that was totally unnecessary.