House passes bill requiring proof of citizenship to vote

[Fantine]

Um. No. I’ll be 30 in October, and I’ve definitely seen democracy in our nation and in action.

So you reached voting age in 2012. You only had one election where both candidates had issues and policies and statesmanship.
In the other three elections, one campaign was based on WWE tactics--grandstanding, braggadicio.show-biz tactics where the truth is lost or non-existent, violence, bullying.
Had your social studies teachers been able to predict Amageddon they would have warned you, but your generation was left to navigate this minefield of falsehoods on your own.
I can empathize.

 

[MarkSB]

Active felons cannot vote unless they appeal.

Not true... the laws for felons being able to vote vary from state to state.

 

[BCP1928]

Again, there is no requirement for a passport. And the Act does not apply to when you vote, it applies to when you register to vote.

That's actually a good idea, and a turnaround for the Republicans who for years favored polling place ID only

Remember the Democrat hoax that blacks did not have ID? And then remember when so many blacks came forward and said that was ridiculous.? I mean if the Democrats could have scoured the country and found a hundred people who were denied the right to vote because they had no ID they could have got some real attention. It's a fake issue.

No, I don't remember that hoax, I remember the Democrats correctly pointing out that there were a significant number of people who would have difficulty getting the correct ID, especially in States where the legislation was passed a relatively short time before the election. The effect was thought to especially hit the elderly and disabled as well as some minorities. Not just "blacks." That's your idea, and leads me to think that there might be some value in CRT after all.

 

[Valletta]

That's actually a good idea, and a turnaround for the Republicans who for years favored polling place ID only

No, I don't remember that hoax, I remember the Democrats correctly pointing out that there were a significant number of people who would have difficulty getting the correct ID, especially in States where the legislation was passed a relatively short time before the election. The effect was thought to especially hit the elderly and disabled as well as some minorities. Not just "blacks." That's your idea, and leads me to think that there might be some value in CRT after all.

False, it's not my idea, as I said it was a hoax pushed by Democrats:

Disenfranchisement and Suppression of Black Voters in the United States - Ballard Brief

Modern Black disenfranchisement is part of a history of racial division and suppression in the US stretching back to before the Revolutionary War.

ballardbrief.byu.edu

BLACK WOMEN AND VOTER SUPPRESSION

https://www.bu.edu/bulawreview/files/2023/02/LAROCHE.pdf

From Black Perspectives:

The Racist Origins of the Real ID Act - AAIHS

As of May 2023, a passport or driver’s license which proves legal residence in the U.S. will be needed to board a domestic flight, a change that will further impede the mobility of undocumented persons. This is the date by which the federal government has given people to obtain a “Real ID,” a...

www.aaihs.org

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I apologize for this quote. I realize that to many, relentless overexposure to vulgarity and insult laced propaganda has made it the new normal.
Because I am in my 70's and have heard decorum, facts, and civilized discourse for six decades, I know the difference.
Younger people may have been so unfortunate as never to have heard democracy in action.

I turn 54 in a few weeks, I don't think I want to reach 70.

 

[BeyondET]

Please explain that to the Parkland, Sandy Hook and so many other grieving parents.
Then duck.

It takes a person to pick up a gun to kill, just like it takes a person to pick up a hammer to kill.

 

[Fantine]

It takes a person to pick up a gun to kill, just like it takes a person to pick up a hammer to kill.

Then why, in all the countries with gun laws more civilized and sensible than ours, are murders so much more uncommon?
Perhaps the fear and hate churned up by populist demagogues to gain votes makes people feel the need to carry deadly weapons. They're not dangerous, just manipulated and scared.

 

[BeyondET]

Then why, in all the countries with gun laws more civilized and sensible than ours, are murders so much more uncommon?
Perhaps the fear and hate churned up by populist demagogues to gain votes makes people feel the need to carry deadly weapons. They're not dangerous, just manipulated and scared.

There's afew things that cause issues, but the U.S. is one of the most freest country's in the world. The media is a prime example of that, they can stoke fires without any consequences, sending lunatics into a frenzy, and I think there is no law about mental evaluation before someone can buy a gun I may be wrong I don't know, I've only had one gun in my life a 22 cal rifle and that was many years ago.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Thank you for the nuanced response. Having a unified national ID is certainly beneficial in many ways. Is it currently more difficult to acquire some kind of ID than filing a request at a certain office? Getting an ID is associated with a certain level of effort, I'm wondering if the perception of that effort (and how much effort is "too much") is different in our countries.

The most frequent issue that arises is that obtaining an ID requires you to already have at least two other forms of identification (potentially more depending on type). An official copy of your birth certificate and your social security card are the most common, but many people - especially those coming from poverty or difficult family situations - may not have them or, because birth certificates are not standardized, yours may not be accepted as genuine (I've personally experienced this). You can get replacements, but that takes time and money (and also ways to prove your identity - which is hard to do when you don't have an ID).

Another common problem is that the offices that you need to go to in order to get your ID are frequently very crowded (i.e. it can take hours of waiting to be seen) and are only open during normal business hours (weekdays 9am-5pm). If you have the ability to take time off of work, that's annoying, but manageable, but since the US doesn't have a mandatory leave policy, not everyone has that option.

I don't know that "for free" is a reasonable expectation, since printing these special documents and all the paperwork attached to it is quite an expenditure on the government's part. As a reference point: In Germany an ID costs $25 for people under 24 (the ID needs to be renewed every 6 years), and $42 for people above 24 (now it needs to be renewed only every 10 years). The reason the ID needs to be renewed here from time to time is because for it to be less prone to forgery it contains a picture of the ID holder (and a person's face changes more drastically at a younger age).

True, but there should at least be subsidies available for people who cannot afford the cost.

By the way, while we do take our ID to the polling station, we usually don't need to actually show it. It is only needed for the one-time voter registration at 18 and then you can vote for the rest of your life. This would of course be a little different in the US because you are not obligated to register to vote.

In the US, you're registered for as long as you stay at a particular address, but if you move, you need to re-register, since your address is part of how you are identified.

 

[RDKirk]

Then why, in all the countries with gun laws more civilized and sensible than ours, are murders so much more uncommon?
Perhaps the fear and hate churned up by populist demagogues to gain votes makes people feel the need to carry deadly weapons. They're not dangerous, just manipulated and scared.

From what I can see, "more civilized and sensible" preceded their gun laws...their gun laws didn't make them "more civilized and sensible."

 

[Bradskii]

From what I can see, "more civilized and sensible" preceded their gun laws...their gun laws didn't make them "more civilized and sensible."

Indeed. Guns laws follow from being civilised and sensible.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

The most frequent issue that arises is that obtaining an ID requires you to already have at least two other forms of identification (potentially more depending on type). An official copy of your birth certificate and your social security card are the most common, but many people - especially those coming from poverty or difficult family situations - may not have them or, because birth certificates are not standardized, yours may not be accepted as genuine (I've personally experienced this). You can get replacements, but that takes time and money (and also ways to prove your identity - which is hard to do when you don't have an ID).

Mhm. That does sound a bit like "too much effort" is perceived differently in our nations. You see, in order to obtain an ID we also need to show other forms of identification (if you don't have an old ID, you need a passport, sometimes a birth certificate and in rare cases even a certificate of ancestry). These cost money here as well and it's certainly not a quick process. But we also don't expect to get an ID just a few months before an election. There are also poor people in Germany, who manage all of this. Perhaps it is a cultural difference regarding what people are willing to put up with when it comes to bureaucracy?

Another common problem is that the offices that you need to go to in order to get your ID are frequently very crowded (i.e. it can take hours of waiting to be seen) and are only open during normal business hours (weekdays 9am-5pm). If you have the ability to take time off of work, that's annoying, but manageable, but since the US doesn't have a mandatory leave policy, not everyone has that option.

That's a fair point. Having enough offices that citizens can go to for things like this is essential for it to work well. My city of ~500,000 people has nine offices where you can request an ID. For people outside of cities the effort is higher than for those inside cities.

In the US, you're registered for as long as you stay at a particular address, but if you move, you need to re-register, since your address is part of how you are identified.

It is similar here, but the re-registering is done automatically by the government when you change your address. So all you have to do is go to the registration of address office to inform them about your new address, and everything contingent on it moves along "by itself".

 

[BCP1928]

From what I can see, "more civilized and sensible" preceded their gun laws...their gun laws didn't make them "more civilized and sensible."

According to the Right, it was the gun laws that allowed these countries to fall under the tyranny of atheistic socialism. "more civilized and sensible" is just Woke code for evils like single-payer health care, adequate public transportation and lavish social safety nets which weaken the moral fiber of the working class. MAGA!

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Mhm. That does sound a bit like "too much effort" is perceived differently in our nations. You see, in order to obtain an ID we also need to show other forms of identification (if you don't have an old ID, you need a passport, sometimes a birth certificate and in rare cases even a certificate of ancestry). These cost money here as well and it's certainly not a quick process. But we also don't expect to get an ID just a few months before an election. There are also poor people in Germany, who manage all of this. Perhaps it is a cultural difference regarding what people are willing to put up with when it comes to bureaucracy?

If you have an old ID or a passport, you can use those to get a new ID here, but only about half of Americans have a valid passport, and around 8-9% don't have a non-expired ID.

https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter%20ID%202023%20survey%20Key%20Results%20Jan%202024%20(1).pdf

Reports and Statistics

travel.state.gov

Some of it could be down to cultural differences, but I think the majority of it is a knee-jerk reaction given past efforts to use voter ID and other tests to suppress the votes of minority communities. This is not helped by the fact that pretty much every voter ID proposal makes no effort to address issues of access.

That's a fair point. Having enough offices that citizens can go to for things like this is essential for it to work well. My city of ~500,000 people has nine offices where you can request an ID. For people outside of cities the effort is higher than for those inside cities.

Where I am now, it's not really a big issue getting an ID - the last time I renewed mine, I was in and out in under 20 minutes - but in the city I grew up in, you could show up an hour before the office opened, and there would be several hundred people already queued up. And with the size of the US, there are many places where you might need to drive an hour or more to get to an office.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Over half of Americans have no passport, if you are a married woman who has officially changed their name and have no passport you will be charged $160+ for a passport to be allowed to vote.

Why should married woman be penalised? Are you against Christian marriage?

They’re not being penalized, since they’re being required to present the same identification as everyone else.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I saw nowhere in the article that one would be required to have a passport in order to vote. There are more than a few different ways to provide proof of ID.

Proof of ID doesn’t necessarily prove citizenship. I heard Trump talking about requiring a driver’s license to vote but I’m not sure how that would work since you don’t have to be a citizen to have a driver’s license. My driver’s license doesn’t say that I’m a US citizen.

 

[BCP1928]

They’re not being penalized, since they’re being required to present the same identification as everyone else.

It's a statistical thing. The extra time and effort required for some people doesn't make it impossible, it may just shave the vote a little and in some close elections a little is all it takes.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The only two forms of id that are guaranteed to work are passport or birth certificate, the id card mentioned is not legitimate as non citizens can have one. So if your married and have changed your name to one not on your birth certificate yes you will be required to have a passport.

Birth certificate should have to be accompanied by a government issued picture ID like a driver’s license or state ID. Anyone can walk in with a birth certificate and claim to be that person because they don’t have a photo.

 

[BCP1928]

Proof of ID doesn’t necessarily prove citizenship. I heard Trump talking about requiring a driver’s license to vote but I’m not sure how that would work since you don’t have to be a citizen to have a driver’s license. My driver’s license doesn’t say that I’m a US citizen.

Starting in May it will have to. You haven't got your RealID yet?

 

[BNR32FAN]

The only two forms of id that are guaranteed to work are passport or birth certificate, the id card mentioned is not legitimate as non citizens can have one. So if your married and have changed your name to one not on your birth certificate yes you will be required to have a passport.

They could bring a marriage certificate along with a birth certificate and photo ID to prove that their name was legally changed.