Does Jesus Himself condemn Sola Scripitra?

[boughtwithaprice]

This was the Gospel read at Mass on Thursday April 3. It is from John 5

Jesus said to the Jews: “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not true. But there is another who testifies on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he gives on my behalf is true. You sent emissaries to John, and he testified to the truth. I do not accept human testimony, but I say this so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and for a while you were content to rejoice in his light. But I have testimony greater than John’s. The works that the Father gave me to accomplish, these works that I perform testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me. Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form, and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life.


“I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope. For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”



Several things stuck out to me in this passage and I cannot believe that I did not see this before.

Jesus says that the Father has sent Him, but you have never heard His voice nor seen His form, and you do not have His word remaining in you.

WHY? Is it because they did not believe the scriptures? No, Jesus says that they have the scriptures and think that they have eternal life through them, but they don’t. WHY?

They do not believe on whom he has sent. He whom the Father has sent is Jesus, we know, but whom did Jesus send? He told the Apostles to go into all the world and preach the Gospel teaching them to obey all I have commanded you. Apostle means one who is sent.
He did not say to search the scriptures day and night to come to your own conclusions. No, authority was given to the Apostles, and they were sent by Jesus, so all Christians are obligated by faith to believe them.
The Bereans tested Paul by reading the scriptures to see if what he said was true, but they did not use the scriptures to abandon Paul and go on their own thinking they knew better.


He goes on to say “How can you believe when you accept the praise from one another and not the praise that comes from God alone?”

The scriptures speak of Apostolic authority, yet those that claim Sola Scriptura use it as an excuse to disbelieve the Apostles. They cry freedom of conscience.
Yes you have God given free will, but God does not praise freedom of conscience. He says I desire obedience rather than sacrifice. Who do we obey? The Apostles whose authority has come down to us by the laying on of hands and the promise of the Holy Spirt. Who do sola scripurists obey? If they are honest then it is no one, as each interprets scripture by his own understanding.

If we cannot obey the Apostles whom we can see, how can we claim to obey God whom we cannot see?
Yes obedience takes humility, but humility is the primary Christian virtue. There was even a song that I fondly remember as a Protestant
“Trust and obey, trust and obey. For there is no other way to be happy in Jesus than to trust and obey.”

I am not ashamed to say that I trust and obey the Apostles who were sent in the Catholic Church. I tired sola scriptura but was frequently beset by sin and told not to worry. When I finally submitted to the full authority of the Catholic Church without reservation, the sin that so easily beset me was gone. God gave me the grace that sola scriptura never could, because sola scriptura came from my own understanding and the praise of men, not from God.

You all have freedom of conscience and can follow whoever you want. I know His grace is real and I am following His Apostles in the Catholic Church. It is the Church Jesus built and confirms by the Holy Spirit

Jesus pretty much condemns sola scriptura in John 5. May God have mercy and he that has a ear to hear let him hear

 

[Maori Aussie]

Jesus pretty much condemns sola scriptura in John 5. May God have mercy and he that has a ear to hear let him hear

I don't know much about these things but on this site, I have recently learned of different denominations and their "stools". One leg of the "stool" is scripture, another is tradition, another is reason, and some have another leg "experience"??? Personally, I am also open to "inspiration by the Holy Spirit". There is a verse advising us to be "well-balanced". I chose "All of the Above".

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus speaks of His own authority in the great commission, not given to man to change His unchanging Word.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [d]Amen.

To say Jesus condemns Scripture only, this is a sad teaching. Jesus is the Word who became flesh. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness He relied on the Scriptures to overcome temptation. Jesus is our example in all ways. 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

Mat 4:4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not [a]tempt the Lord your God.’ ”

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, [b]“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’

This is what Jesus said about the Scriptures


Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
John 5:You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

We have to keep in mind, there is a spiritual war going on, who doesn't want us to rely on the Scriptures, but instead the teachings of man. Not Jesus Christ who said in His own Words the Scriptures testify of Me. Man can say or change anything, God's Word stands forever

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever.”

Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.


God's Word is to be the light to our path

Psa 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

Going away from God's Word, there is no light

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Which is the whole controversy, staying in darkness or coming to the light which is Jesus Christ and He told us His word is the light to our path, not the traditions of man. Mat 15:3-14

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

This was the Gospel read at Mass on Thursday April 3. It is from John 5

Jesus said to the Jews: “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not true. But there is another who testifies on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he gives on my behalf is true. You sent emissaries to John, and he testified to the truth. I do not accept human testimony, but I say this so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and for a while you were content to rejoice in his light. But I have testimony greater than John’s. The works that the Father gave me to accomplish, these works that I perform testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me. Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form, and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life.


“I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope. For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”



Several things stuck out to me in this passage and I cannot believe that I did not see this before.

Jesus says that the Father has sent Him, but you have never heard His voice nor seen His form, and you do not have His word remaining in you.

WHY? Is it because they did not believe the scriptures? No, Jesus says that they have the scriptures and think that they have eternal life through them, but they don’t. WHY?

They do not believe on whom he has sent. He whom the Father has sent is Jesus, we know, but whom did Jesus send? He told the Apostles to go into all the world and preach the Gospel teaching them to obey all I have commanded you. Apostle means one who is sent.
He did not say to search the scriptures day and night to come to your own conclusions. No, authority was given to the Apostles, and they were sent by Jesus, so all Christians are obligated by faith to believe them.
The Bereans tested Paul by reading the scriptures to see if what he said was true, but they did not use the scriptures to abandon Paul and go on their own thinking they knew better.


He goes on to say “How can you believe when you accept the praise from one another and not the praise that comes from God alone?”

The scriptures speak of Apostolic authority, yet those that claim Sola Scriptura use it as an excuse to disbelieve the Apostles. They cry freedom of conscience.
Yes you have God given free will, but God does not praise freedom of conscience. He says I desire obedience rather than sacrifice. Who do we obey? The Apostles whose authority has come down to us by the laying on of hands and the promise of the Holy Spirt. Who do sola scripurists obey? If they are honest then it is no one, as each interprets scripture by his own understanding.

If we cannot obey the Apostles whom we can see, how can we claim to obey God whom we cannot see?
Yes obedience takes humility, but humility is the primary Christian virtue. There was even a song that I fondly remember as a Protestant
“Trust and obey, trust and obey. For there is no other way to be happy in Jesus than to trust and obey.”

I am not ashamed to say that I trust and obey the Apostles who were sent in the Catholic Church. I tired sola scriptura but was frequently beset by sin and told not to worry. When I finally submitted to the full authority of the Catholic Church without reservation, the sin that so easily beset me was gone. God gave me the grace that sola scriptura never could, because sola scriptura came from my own understanding and the praise of men, not from God.

You all have freedom of conscience and can follow whoever you want. I know His grace is real and I am following His Apostles in the Catholic Church. It is the Church Jesus built and confirms by the Holy Spirit

Jesus pretty much condemns sola scriptura in John 5. May God have mercy and he that has a ear to hear let him hear

The most important thing to remember is that Jesus sent to people who love Him and do GOD's will the Comforter or Holy Spirit that teaches us all truths and make it possible for the believers to discern the truth from false doctrine. I was writing about this for a post that will be posted today but I think it could be useful here on this thread;

The Words of Jesus About the Holy Spirit
Jesus spoke clearly about the coming of the Holy Spirit and the role He would have in the lives of those who believe. In John 14:26 (NKJV), Jesus said, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” This promise shows us that the Holy Spirit would not only come to help, but also to teach us everything we need to know and remind us of Jesus' own words.

Later, Jesus added in John 16:13 (NKJV), “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.” The Spirit is not just a helper but the Spirit of truth Himself. He listens to the Father and the Son, and then speaks to us, leading us into full understanding and even showing us what is yet to come.

In another passage, John 15:26 (NKJV), Jesus said, “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” The Spirit’s work is also to make Jesus known to us in a deeper and truer way. He opens our hearts to truly see who Jesus is and to follow Him closely.

Why We Must Rely on the Holy Spirit for Truth
Jesus made it clear that we cannot know the truth without the help of the Holy Spirit. He is our divine teacher who opens our eyes, teaches us, and reminds us of what Jesus said. He guides us step by step, never speaking on His own, but always bringing what comes from God. He is the voice of the Father and the Son speaking within us.

The Holy Spirit also gives us the ability to recognize what is true or false when we hear teachings, whether from Scripture or from people. If we let the Spirit lead us, He opens our eyes to see clearly and helps us understand whether a message is truly from God or not. This discernment is part of the truth He brings. Without the Spirit, people are easily confused or led astray by false teachings or traditions. Even those who read the Bible may miss its meaning if they do not have the Spirit to guide them. This is why Jesus called Him the Spirit of truth. It is the Spirit who helps us remember the words of Jesus, understand them, and walk in them.

The Spirit also testifies of Jesus. He helps us know Jesus in our hearts, not just with our minds. This is how we grow in true faith and obedience. Just as a good teacher helps a child understand difficult lessons, the Holy Spirit teaches our hearts the truth of God.

The Spirit of Truth in the Old Testament
Even before Jesus came, the Holy Spirit was already working in the lives of God’s people. In the book of Isaiah, the Spirit is described in a prophecy about the Messiah. Isaiah 11:2 (NKJV) says, “The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.” This shows us that the Spirit brings wisdom, understanding, counsel, and knowledge—everything we need to walk in truth.

We also see the Spirit teaching in the time of Moses. In Nehemiah 9:20 (NKJV), it says, “You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, and did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst.” Here the Spirit is seen as the one who instructs the people directly, showing that God's guidance has always come through His Spirit.

In another place, Isaiah 30:21 (NKJV) promises, “Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, ‘This is the way, walk in it,’ whenever you turn to the right hand or whenever you turn to the left.” This verse shows the personal and direct guidance that God gives through His Spirit, speaking within us when we are unsure or lost.

A Simple Truth for the Heart
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit so we would not be left alone, confused, or misled. He is the Helper who walks with us, teaches us, and points us back to Jesus every time. He brings truth to our hearts, not just our minds. He reminds us of everything Jesus said, and He helps us live by it.

To follow Jesus fully, we must listen to the Spirit He sent. The Spirit doesn’t bring a new message but helps us understand and live by the words Jesus already gave. Just as the disciples could not do anything without Jesus, we cannot do anything without the Spirit. He is our light in the darkness, our teacher in confusion, and our strength in weakness.

So, if we want to know the truth, walk in it, and be faithful to Jesus, we must rely on the Holy Spirit every day. He is the same Spirit who spoke in the days of old, the same Spirit who filled Jesus, and the same Spirit who now lives in those who believe.

Blessings,

JFF

 

[Clare73]

This was the Gospel read at Mass on Thursday April 3. It is from John 5
Jesus said to the Jews: “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not true. But there is another who testifies on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he gives on my behalf is true. You sent emissaries to John, and he testified to the truth. I do not accept human testimony, but I say this so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and for a while you were content to rejoice in his light. But I have testimony greater than John’s. The works that the Father gave me to accomplish, these works that I perform testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me. Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form, and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life.

“I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope. For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Moses' writings (Gen to Deut) are Scripture . . .they did not believe the OT Scriptures.

Several things stuck out to me in this passage and I cannot believe that I did not see this before.
Jesus says that the Father has sent Him, but you have never heard His voice nor seen His form, and you do not have His word remaining in you.
WHY? Is it because they did not believe the scriptures? No, Jesus says that they have the scriptures and think that they have eternal life through them, but they don’t. WHY?
They do not believe on whom he has sent. He whom the Father has sent is Jesus, we know, but whom did Jesus send? He told the Apostles to go into all the world and preach the Gospel teaching them to obey all I have commanded you. Apostle means one who is sent.

He did not say to search the scriptures day and night to come to your own conclusions. No, authority was given to the Apostles, and they were sent by Jesus, so all Christians are obligated by faith to believe them.

And what the apostles taught are the content of the NT Scriptures, which are the authority for all Christian doctrine.

The Bereans tested Paul by reading the scriptures to see if what he said was true, but
they did not use the scriptures to abandon Paul and go on their own thinking they knew better.

Because Paul was in agreement with the OT Scriptures, which Scriptures were their standard.
Had Paul not been in agreement with the OT Scriptures, they would not have received his teaching and would have abandoned him.

He goes on to say “How can you believe when you accept the praise from one another and not the praise that comes from God alone?”
The scriptures speak of Apostolic authority, yet those that claim Sola Scriptura use it as an excuse to disbelieve the Apostles.

What do you think NT Scripture is?

The NT Scriptures are apostolic teaching with which one must be in agreement to be in agreement with God.
That which departs from NT Scripture is not apostolic teaching.

NT Scripture is the sole judge of any proposed NT doctrine.

They cry freedom of conscience.

To understand the Scriptures on their own.

And God is the Judge of their honesty and sincerity.

Yes you have God given free will, but God does not praise freedom of conscience. He says I desire obedience rather than sacrifice.

And in context that refers to their offering sacrifices while remaining in disobedience in their lives.
It's not a statement comparing the value of obedience to the value of sacrifice.

Who do we obey? The Apostles whose authority has come down to us by the laying on of hands and the promise of the Holy Spirt. Who do sola scripurists obey? If they are honest then it is no one, as each interprets scripture by his own understanding.
If we cannot obey the Apostles whom we can see, how can we claim to obey God whom we cannot see?
Yes obedience takes humility, but humility is the primary Christian virtue. There was even a song that I fondly remember as a Protestant
“Trust and obey, trust and obey. For there is no other way to be happy in Jesus than to trust and obey.”
I am not ashamed to say that I trust and obey the Apostles who were sent in the Catholic Church. I tired sola scriptura but was frequently beset by sin and told not to worry. When I finally submitted to the full authority of the Catholic Church without reservation, the sin that so easily beset me was gone. God gave me the grace that sola scriptura never could, because sola scriptura came from my own understanding and the praise of men, not from God.

You all have freedom of conscience and can follow whoever you want.

Freedom of conscience there means to follow your studied understanding of Scripture, not your whims.

I know His grace is real and I am following His Apostles in the Catholic Church. It is the Church Jesus built and confirms by the Holy Spirit

Jesus pretty much condemns sola scriptura in John 5. May God have mercy and he that has a ear to hear let him hear

"For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

Moses' writings are Scripture. How is the above a condemnation of Scripture?

The above is using Scripture as the ultimate authority!

 

[Godsunworthyservant]

The scriptures speak of Apostolic authority, yet those that claim Sola Scriptura use it as an excuse to disbelieve the Apostles.

I don't really know about the Catholic take on Sola Scriptura but the Protestant version with which I am familiar includes the writings of the Apostles found in the New Testament. By the "scripture alone" is the way we were taught it. The scripture in Protestant terms includes those writings.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

The most important thing to remember is that Jesus sent to people who love Him and do GOD's will the Comforter or Holy Spirit that teaches us all truths and make it possible for the believers to discern the truth from false doctrine. I was writing about this for a post that will be posted today but I think it could be useful here on this thread;

The Words of Jesus About the Holy Spirit
Jesus spoke clearly about the coming of the Holy Spirit and the role He would have in the lives of those who believe. In John 14:26 (NKJV), Jesus said, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” This promise shows us that the Holy Spirit would not only come to help, but also to teach us everything we need to know and remind us of Jesus' own words.

Later, Jesus added in John 16:13 (NKJV), “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.” The Spirit is not just a helper but the Spirit of truth Himself. He listens to the Father and the Son, and then speaks to us, leading us into full understanding and even showing us what is yet to come.

In another passage, John 15:26 (NKJV), Jesus said, “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” The Spirit’s work is also to make Jesus known to us in a deeper and truer way. He opens our hearts to truly see who Jesus is and to follow Him closely.

Why We Must Rely on the Holy Spirit for Truth
Jesus made it clear that we cannot know the truth without the help of the Holy Spirit. He is our divine teacher who opens our eyes, teaches us, and reminds us of what Jesus said. He guides us step by step, never speaking on His own, but always bringing what comes from God. He is the voice of the Father and the Son speaking within us.

The Holy Spirit also gives us the ability to recognize what is true or false when we hear teachings, whether from Scripture or from people. If we let the Spirit lead us, He opens our eyes to see clearly and helps us understand whether a message is truly from God or not. This discernment is part of the truth He brings. Without the Spirit, people are easily confused or led astray by false teachings or traditions. Even those who read the Bible may miss its meaning if they do not have the Spirit to guide them. This is why Jesus called Him the Spirit of truth. It is the Spirit who helps us remember the words of Jesus, understand them, and walk in them.

The Spirit also testifies of Jesus. He helps us know Jesus in our hearts, not just with our minds. This is how we grow in true faith and obedience. Just as a good teacher helps a child understand difficult lessons, the Holy Spirit teaches our hearts the truth of God.

The Spirit of Truth in the Old Testament
Even before Jesus came, the Holy Spirit was already working in the lives of God’s people. In the book of Isaiah, the Spirit is described in a prophecy about the Messiah. Isaiah 11:2 (NKJV) says, “The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.” This shows us that the Spirit brings wisdom, understanding, counsel, and knowledge—everything we need to walk in truth.

We also see the Spirit teaching in the time of Moses. In Nehemiah 9:20 (NKJV), it says, “You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, and did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst.” Here the Spirit is seen as the one who instructs the people directly, showing that God's guidance has always come through His Spirit.

In another place, Isaiah 30:21 (NKJV) promises, “Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, ‘This is the way, walk in it,’ whenever you turn to the right hand or whenever you turn to the left.” This verse shows the personal and direct guidance that God gives through His Spirit, speaking within us when we are unsure or lost.

A Simple Truth for the Heart
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit so we would not be left alone, confused, or misled. He is the Helper who walks with us, teaches us, and points us back to Jesus every time. He brings truth to our hearts, not just our minds. He reminds us of everything Jesus said, and He helps us live by it.

To follow Jesus fully, we must listen to the Spirit He sent. The Spirit doesn’t bring a new message but helps us understand and live by the words Jesus already gave. Just as the disciples could not do anything without Jesus, we cannot do anything without the Spirit. He is our light in the darkness, our teacher in confusion, and our strength in weakness.

So, if we want to know the truth, walk in it, and be faithful to Jesus, we must rely on the Holy Spirit every day. He is the same Spirit who spoke in the days of old, the same Spirit who filled Jesus, and the same Spirit who now lives in those who believe.

Blessings,

JFF

If what you say is true, then you make the case that the Holy Spirit is inconsistent and subject to the whims of men. There are multiple groups that claim what you do, yet are not in agreement on doctrine.
God is not a man that He should lie, and He certainly does not contradict Himself. He gave the authority to preach the Gospel to the Apostles, not to everyone that claims to follow Jesus. Scripture is clear on this point as 1 John 2:19 states

. 19They went out from us but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us: but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us. 20But you have the unction from the Holy One and know all things.


Those that have the unction of the Holy Spirit were those that remained with the Apostles, not those that went on their own. Jesus gave His authority to the Apostles, and the Apostles gave their authority to Popes and Bishops through the laying on of hands
All those that went out from the Apostles testified of themselves and sought the approval of men. That is something that even Jesus said He does not do. The Holy Spirt is not going to follow men who depart, rather He calls us to follow Him and repent.

It is hard, I know. We think that we know better, I can read the Bible on my own and I am good, but the Bible speaks of Jesus building His Church. We have His visible Church, but sola scripturists will not believe it even though scripture speaks of it.
God call us to deny ourselves, not exalt ourselves and lord our knowledge over others. God has already provided us with a Church, we labor in vain that attempt to build a new one. The only Church that can trace its origin back to Jesus through Peter is the Catholic Church. All others have their origin in the mind of men or women
You can follow other people if you wish and soothe each others intellect by seeking the approval of men. That is the free will God gives you. I stopped following men and humbled myself before Christ and His Church. The graces I have been given are incalculable. The seven sacraments are such a blessing. I receive the body and blood of Jesus at Mass. Why would I discard it for a symbolic cracker and grape juice?
I can confess my sins to a priest that comes in personae Christi, as I am taking to Jesus Himself. Why would I discard that for the gossips of the locals? I have my mother Mary, who prepares me for Jesus as Rebecca prepared Jacob to receive the blessing from Isaac. Why would I discard or disparage her? God Himself actually grew inside her and it is because of her that we have the hypostatic union. It would not please God for me to disrespect His mother

Scriptures speak of all these things, yet those that claim sola scriptura want to use it as a reason to discard them? God forbid, I will not discard the Catholic Church to win the favor of men.
I invite all to do the same
Father forgive them, they do not know what they are doing

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I don't really know about the Catholic take on Sola Scriptura but the Protestant version with which I am familiar includes the writings of the Apostles found in the New Testament. By the "scripture alone" is the way we were taught it. The scripture in Protestant terms includes those writings.

Read the Demonstration of the Apostolic teaching by Iraneus. It was written in the second century. Pay particular attention to point 96 and see if Protestant terms are still teaching as the Apostles taught

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Jesus speaks of His own authority in the great commission, not given to man to change His unchanging Word.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [d]Amen.

To say Jesus condemns Scripture only, this is a sad teaching. Jesus is the Word who became flesh. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness He relied on the Scriptures to overcome temptation. Jesus is our example in all ways. 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

Mat 4:4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,

‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”
7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not [a]tempt the Lord your God.’ ”

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, [b]“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’

This is what Jesus said about the Scriptures


Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
Luke 24:45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
John 5:You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

We have to keep in mind, there is a spiritual war going on, who doesn't want us to rely on the Scriptures, but instead the teachings of man. Not Jesus Christ who said in His own Words the Scriptures testify of Me. Man can say or change anything, God's Word stands forever

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever.”

Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.


God's Word is to be the light to our path

Psa 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

Going away from God's Word, there is no light

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Which is the whole controversy, staying in darkness or coming to the light which is Jesus Christ and He told us His word is the light to our path, not the traditions of man. Mat 15:3-14

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

I John 2 speaks against you. God made one Church, and if you were of God, you would have remained with her, rather than following another woman that uses great swelling words yet her actions are mere rebellion. The Great Controversy is her own polemic against the Church that Christ built

 

[Godsunworthyservant]

Read the Demonstration of the Apostolic teaching by Iraneus. It was written in the second century. Pay particular attention to point 96 and see if Protestant terms are still teaching as the Apostles taught

I don't believe any church is still teaching strictly what the Apostles taught. These days they all teach the teachings of men as much as they do those of Christ or the Apostles. I simply said they define Sola Scriptura to include them, not that they teach them.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I John 2 speaks against you. God made one Church, and if you were of God, you would have remained with her, rather than following another woman that uses great swelling words yet her actions are mere rebellion. The Great Controversy is her own polemic against the Church that Christ built

Since I mainly quoted Scripture, Scripture is not against Scripture and if we believe the God of the Bible, only He is our righteous Judge, Revelation speaks of a church we are to come out of Rev 18:4 and join His church that keep the commandments of God (His version) and the faith and testimony of Jesus Rev 14:12 Rev 12:17 This church uses the Bible as the light to their path Psa 119:105 because the Bible is the testimony of Jesus Christ and only He is the way. Walk in light John 8:12

Be well.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

If what you say is true, then you make the case that the Holy Spirit is inconsistent and subject to the whims of men. There are multiple groups that claim what you do, yet are not in agreement on doctrine.
God is not a man that He should lie, and He certainly does not contradict Himself. He gave the authority to preach the Gospel to the Apostles, not to everyone that claims to follow Jesus. Scripture is clear on this point as 1 John 2:19 states

. 19They went out from us but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us: but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us. 20But you have the unction from the Holy One and know all things.


Those that have the unction of the Holy Spirit were those that remained with the Apostles, not those that went on their own. Jesus gave His authority to the Apostles, and the Apostles gave their authority to Popes and Bishops through the laying on of hands
All those that went out from the Apostles testified of themselves and sought the approval of men. That is something that even Jesus said He does not do. The Holy Spirt is not going to follow men who depart, rather He calls us to follow Him and repent.

It is hard, I know. We think that we know better, I can read the Bible on my own and I am good, but the Bible speaks of Jesus building His Church. We have His visible Church, but sola scripturists will not believe it even though scripture speaks of it.
God call us to deny ourselves, not exalt ourselves and lord our knowledge over others. God has already provided us with a Church, we labor in vain that attempt to build a new one. The only Church that can trace its origin back to Jesus through Peter is the Catholic Church. All others have their origin in the mind of men or women
You can follow other people if you wish and soothe each others intellect by seeking the approval of men. That is the free will God gives you. I stopped following men and humbled myself before Christ and His Church. The graces I have been given are incalculable. The seven sacraments are such a blessing. I receive the body and blood of Jesus at Mass. Why would I discard it for a symbolic cracker and grape juice?
I can confess my sins to a priest that comes in personae Christi, as I am taking to Jesus Himself. Why would I discard that for the gossips of the locals? I have my mother Mary, who prepares me for Jesus as Rebecca prepared Jacob to receive the blessing from Isaac. Why would I discard or disparage her? God Himself actually grew inside her and it is because of her that we have the hypostatic union. It would not please God for me to disrespect His mother

Scriptures speak of all these things, yet those that claim sola scriptura want to use it as a reason to discard them? God forbid, I will not discard the Catholic Church to win the favor of men.
I invite all to do the same
Father forgive them, they do not know what they are doing

I am sorry you do not believe what Jesus said about sending the Holy spirit. Maybe one day you will understand what I wrote about.

 

[BobRyan]

Several things stuck out to me in this passage and I cannot believe that I did not see this before.

Jesus says that the Father has sent Him, but you have never heard His voice nor seen His form, and you do not have His word remaining in you.

1. IN John 1 we find that no one has seen the Father at any time. So that is true of us all
2. In Rom 8:4-11 we find that the unsaved person (one who is not born-again) is at war with God so they of course do not have His Word remaining IN them

WHY? Is it because they did not believe the scriptures? No, Jesus says that they have the scriptures and think that they have eternal life through them, but they don’t. WHY?

because they have not accepted the Gospel, the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 and quoted again verbatim in Heb 8.

It is not "because rejecting God's Word - the scriptures - is a good idea".. obviously.

Mark 7:7-13 - Christ's sola scriptura condemnation of the traditions of the one true nation church started by God at Sinai

Acts 17:11 God's blessing place on sola-scriptura testing of all doctrine

 

[BobRyan]

I John 2 speaks against you.

Your response to a post that had nothing but scripture in it - is to suppose that 1 John 2 condemns the quote of those scriptures?

How is that even logical?? I don't follow your logic just then.

God made one Church

God made one nation church in Ex 19-20
God made one Christian church in Matt 28

and Paul said "error will come in" in Acts 20.

ACts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears

1 Tim 1 shows error coming in.

3 John 1 shows error coming in so effectively as to shut out Christians from fellowship in the local church.

Mark 7 points to the One Nation Church started by God at Sinai and says "in vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men"

 

[The Liturgist]

“I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope. For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

This is an interesting argument.

But what is more interesting than that is the fact much of the criticism your post has received came from members of a denomination which regards the writings of an individual born in the 19th century, as infallible prophecy, and as infallible guides to the correct interpretation of scripture, which forms a much more authoritative and comprehensive magisterium than that of the Roman Catholic Church, or the Holy Tradition of the Orthodox, or the Patristic patrimony we share with the liturgical Protestants such as the Lutherans and Anglicans, who expressly recognize in their definitions of Sola Scriptura the usefulness of tradition and reason in interpreting scripture.

I believe that members of that denomination ought to add the works they believe are infallible prophecy to their scriptural canon before criticizing other churches for not believing in Sola Scriptura. Although in my experience members of that denomination tend to regard the interpretations of the individual they believe was a prophet to be the only obvious interpretation.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

This is an interesting argument.

But what is more interesting than that is the fact much of the criticism your post has received came from members of a denomination which regards the writings of an individual born in the 19th century, as infallible prophecy, and as infallible guides to the correct interpretation of scripture, which forms a much more authoritative and comprehensive magisterium than that of the Roman Catholic Church, or the Holy Tradition of the Orthodox, or the Patristic patrimony we share with the liturgical Protestants such as the Lutherans and Anglicans, who expressly recognize in their definitions of Sola Scriptura the usefulness of tradition and reason in interpreting scripture.

I believe that members of that denomination ought to add the works they believe are infallible prophecy to their scriptural canon before criticizing other churches for not believing in Sola Scriptura. Although in my experience members of that denomination tend to regard the interpretations of the individual they believe was a prophet to be the only obvious interpretation.

Jesus said in the passage that scripture alone does not save us. He tells the Pharisees, you search the scriptures and think you have eternal life in them, but the scriptures testify of Me and you do not believe Me, so Moses will be your judge
The New Testament scriptures testify of the Church, which Paul calls the pillar and foundation of truth, but they do not believe the Church, so Paul will be their judge. This is in direct correlation of Jesus words to the Pharisees that relied on Moses’ words. May God have mercy on them
It’s also ironic or is it very telling that the Pharisees said that Jesus cast our demons by baalzebub and they portray the Church as demonic and carrying the mark of the beast
A huge wave of the fear of God came over me when I heard this Gospel on Thursday. I thought who am I to tell God what His word says? As David, who am I to lift my hand against God’s anointed? The Scriptures testify of the Church. The Church is headed by Apostolic authority
It’s not hard to figure out. Paul will be their judge

 

[The Liturgist]

1 Tim 1 shows error coming in.

In the form of heresies like Arianism. But we were also assured in Matthew 16:18 that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church, and this text applies regardless of ecclesiology.

It has the effect, together with other texts concerning the role of the Holy Spirit, of refuting the idea of a “Great Apostasy” having happened in the Second Century, the Fourth Century or any other time in the past.

Combined with the facts of ecclesiastical history, which precludes the ideas of Landmark Baptists and other Restorationists that a remnant existed that continued to teach their theology before the 19th century, this has the effect of debunking the claims of several Restorationist denominations.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Your response to a post that had nothing but scripture in it - is to suppose that 1 John 2 condemns the quote of those scriptures?

How is that even logical?? I don't follow your logic just then.

God made one nation church in Ex 19-20
God made one Christian church in Matt 28

and Paul said "error will come in" in Acts 20.

ACts 20
28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears

1 Tim 1 shows error coming in.

3 John 1 shows error coming in so effectively as to shut out Christians from fellowship in the local church.

Mark 7 points to the One Nation Church started by God at Sinai and says "in vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men"

For your argument to hold, you would have to show that the Apostles taught what you teach.
My argument is completely logical, yet you do not believe, because you do not believe the ones who were sent
You believe your own interpretation of scripture, not scripture itself. If you believed scripture, you would believe the ones who were sent, as Jesus sent them out into the world, but you don’t. You believe one that came on her own, 1800 years after God’s promise to the Church. I don’t follow your logic
You want us to believe one who was not sent by Jesus to refute the ones that were sent because you think your prophet is better and erases all of God’s previous work, or else God’s work was so feeble that no one could see it until your prophet came.
How are you different from Jehovahs witnesses, Mormons or Muslims that claim the Gospel was inferior until their prophet came along?

When we read the Apostolic teaching from the second century from Iraneus, we see nothing like you interpretation of scripture. The Apostles taught that we do not tithe because everything belongs to God, we do not strive to hold onto the 90%. There is no need to teach do not commit adultery or do not steal because all desire of the flesh has been mortified in the love of Our Lord Jesus. We do not keep Sabbath because we are in the perpetual rest of the Lord Jesus
The teaching is there, yet you disagree. God gives you the free will to do that, but God warned us not to believe you and your interpretation. He said if they say that Jesus returns in secret places believe it not, yet you teach He did come in secret in the 1840s. Jesus told us you would have a form of godliness but deny its power
The SDA deny apostolic authority and say the Pope is the antichrist. You deny that Eucharist is Jesus body and blood. You deny that priest have the authority to forgive sins, even though Jesus breathed on His Apsotles and gave them the power to do so. You deny that penance is a good thing. You deny that baptism washes away sin. You deny that Mary holds any special significance in the Church, even though she is the only human to ever have God Himself growing inside her and suckling at her breast. She is also the woman promised in Gen 3:15.
Deny deny deny. You deny that the Church is real and protected by the Holy Spirit. The Pharisees denied Jesus and promoted scripture in the same way that you now deny the Church and promote scripture
You have the scriptures and think you have eternal life in them, yet the scriptures speak of the Church which you deny. Paul will be your judge
I pray God has mercy on you. I do not judge you, but neither can I follow you
I believe that you are being deceived. Scriptures do not speak of an SDA church that comes 1800 years after the start of the Church. It does speak of a great falling away, yet not a destruction and rebuilding of a new church which abandons apostolic teaching. That comes from SDA writings not from Scripture

 

[Clare73]

Does Jesus Himself condemn Sola Scripitra?​

Hardly. . .Belief in the authority and truth of the OT as the word of God was the foundation of Jesus' whole ministry.

Jesus believed the OT was the "word of God" in every detail (Jn 10:35, Lk 11:28, 5:1),
that it was the truth of God vested with the authority of God and backed by the power of God (Mt 5:17-19).
He treated arguments from Scripture as having clinching force. When he said, "It is written," that was final. There was no appeal against Scripture, for "the scripture cannot be broken." (Mt 4:5, Mt 4:7, Mt 4:10, Jn 10:35). God's word holds good forever.
He constantly scolded the Jews for their ignorance and neglect of Scripture: "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures?". . ."Have you not read. . .?". . ."Go and learn what this means. . ." (Mk 12:24, Mt 12:3, Mt 12:5, Mt 19:4, Mt 21:16, Mt 21:42,
Mt 9:13).

Likewise, Jesus himself submitted to the OT as the word of God:
he lived a life of obedience to Scripture (Lk 4:17-21, Mt 8:16-17, Mt 11:2-5),
and then he died in obedience to Scripture (Lk 18:31, Mk 8:31, Mk 9:31, Mk 10:33-34, Mt 26:24, Lk 22:37, Mt 26:53-56),
when he arose, he explained who he was by the Scriptures (Lk 24:44-47, Lk 24:27),
he presented himself to the Jews as the fulfiller of Scripture (Jn 5:39-40, Jn 5:46-47).

Jesus is the very antithesis of condemning Sola Scriptura.

 

[concretecamper]

This was the Gospel read at Mass on Thursday April 3. It is from John 5

Jesus said to the Jews: “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not true. But there is another who testifies on my behalf, and I know that the testimony he gives on my behalf is true. You sent emissaries to John, and he testified to the truth. I do not accept human testimony, but I say this so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and for a while you were content to rejoice in his light. But I have testimony greater than John’s. The works that the Father gave me to accomplish, these works that I perform testify on my behalf that the Father has sent me. Moreover, the Father who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form, and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life.


“I do not accept human praise; moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you. I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope. For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”



Several things stuck out to me in this passage and I cannot believe that I did not see this before.

Jesus says that the Father has sent Him, but you have never heard His voice nor seen His form, and you do not have His word remaining in you.

WHY? Is it because they did not believe the scriptures? No, Jesus says that they have the scriptures and think that they have eternal life through them, but they don’t. WHY?

They do not believe on whom he has sent. He whom the Father has sent is Jesus, we know, but whom did Jesus send? He told the Apostles to go into all the world and preach the Gospel teaching them to obey all I have commanded you. Apostle means one who is sent.
He did not say to search the scriptures day and night to come to your own conclusions. No, authority was given to the Apostles, and they were sent by Jesus, so all Christians are obligated by faith to believe them.
The Bereans tested Paul by reading the scriptures to see if what he said was true, but they did not use the scriptures to abandon Paul and go on their own thinking they knew better.


He goes on to say “How can you believe when you accept the praise from one another and not the praise that comes from God alone?”

The scriptures speak of Apostolic authority, yet those that claim Sola Scriptura use it as an excuse to disbelieve the Apostles. They cry freedom of conscience.
Yes you have God given free will, but God does not praise freedom of conscience. He says I desire obedience rather than sacrifice. Who do we obey? The Apostles whose authority has come down to us by the laying on of hands and the promise of the Holy Spirt. Who do sola scripurists obey? If they are honest then it is no one, as each interprets scripture by his own understanding.

If we cannot obey the Apostles whom we can see, how can we claim to obey God whom we cannot see?
Yes obedience takes humility, but humility is the primary Christian virtue. There was even a song that I fondly remember as a Protestant
“Trust and obey, trust and obey. For there is no other way to be happy in Jesus than to trust and obey.”

I am not ashamed to say that I trust and obey the Apostles who were sent in the Catholic Church. I tired sola scriptura but was frequently beset by sin and told not to worry. When I finally submitted to the full authority of the Catholic Church without reservation, the sin that so easily beset me was gone. God gave me the grace that sola scriptura never could, because sola scriptura came from my own understanding and the praise of men, not from God.

You all have freedom of conscience and can follow whoever you want. I know His grace is real and I am following His Apostles in the Catholic Church. It is the Church Jesus built and confirms by the Holy Spirit

Jesus pretty much condemns sola scriptura in John 5. May God have mercy and he that has a ear to hear let him hear

I'm not convinced that Jesus taught specifically against Sola Scriptura. What is 100% evident is that He did not teach Sola Scriptura.

SS is a reletively new idea that gained some adherants mostly in the past 100 years. It is still only believed by a small minority of Christians.