Free Traders Case For Tariffs

[stevil]

Trump always stood out because he does not care much about globalization at all.

Trump Properties Located Outside of the United States

Though many properties are named after Donald Trump, he is not the owner of such properties so much as the public face of them.

www.worldatlas.com

Trump Properties Located Outside of the United States​

Trump Plaza Tower: Ramat, Israel​

Trump International Hotel & Tower: Vancouver, Canada​

Trump Towers: Istanbul, Turkey​

Trump World: Seoul, Korea​

Trump International Hotel and Tower: Toronto, Canada​

The Palm Trump International Hotel and Tower: Dubai, UAE​

Trump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower: Panama City, Panama​

Trump Ocean Resort: Baja, Mexico​

Trump at Cap Cana: Punta Cana, Dominican Republic​

Trump Tower Manila: Manila, Philippines​

Trump Tower: Mumbai, India​

Trump Tower: Pune, India​

 

[FireDragon76]

Then why do you support them for other countries, but not the US?

That question itself is dishonest.

 

[wing2000]

Except they're not. The value that Trump is using to calculate a country's "tariffs" that he's reciprocating is actually the trade deficit (specifically the ratio of our goods trade deficit with the country to our total imports from the country). And everyone is getting 10% at minimum, regardless.

It's not surprising from a president who still insists that a trade deficit is a "subsidy". His basic lack of economics may very well send the world's economy into a recession.

The data shown on the "reciprocal tariffs" chart is simply false. For example, Trump claims the EU is assessing 39% tariff on US imports.

"That 39% figure claimed by the U.S. is widely disputed with the World Trade Organization saying the EU’s average tariff rate was 4.9% in 2024."


[Spain's] Prime Minister Sanchez said the 39% figure was “untrue” and added that a return to “19th century protectionism is not an intelligent move,” in comments reported by Reuters Thursday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/02/trump-tariffs-live-updates.html

 

[Hammster]

<Looks at the stock market>

Do tell.

What does that have to do with anything? The stock market will adjust

 

[Hammster]

It is? I don't think so. It was the ideological commitment of the GOP to liberal economics that drove them to support free trade and the lowering of tarifs for years and years. Why has the GOP shifted its economic ideology to 1890?

So-called free trade isn’t working.

 

[Hammster]

Why aren't Trump's then?

The plan is to get to that point. There are some countries that are on board.

 

[Hammster]

Obviously you don't understand what a correction is.

I understand that it will go up.

 

[Hammster]

You can bet that I won't ever try to prove anything to you.

Prove it to someone else. Or just be honest.

 

[Hammster]

That question itself is dishonest.

I ask you to explain, but you’ve already stated that I’m not worth your explanations.

 

[Belk]

What does that have to do with anything? The stock market will adjust

It is already adjusting. Downwards.

 

[Nithavela]

Prove it to someone else. Or just be honest.

 

[Hammster]

 

[Hammster]

I didn’t think you’d be honest.

 

[NxNW]

I understand that it will go up.

That's not a correction.

 

[Merrill]

Except they're not. The value that Trump is using to calculate a country's "tariffs" that he's reciprocating is actually the trade deficit (specifically the ratio of our goods trade deficit with the country to our total imports from the country). And everyone is getting 10% at minimum, regardless.

Lesotho, for example, does not actually place a 99% tariff on US imports. They just don't buy much of anything from us (being a small, impoverished country), so the ratio of trade deficit to imports approaches 1.

View attachment 363036

It is my understanding that there are two pieces to the tariff policy:

Reciprocal, punitive tariffs on bad actors (China for instance), well above the 10%, and either matched to that country's import duties, or set at some arbitrary rate. Vietnam slaps a 90% tariff on our goods. I think Trump hit them with a 46% total tariff.

A 10% across-the-board tariff on all imports which connects to the trade deficit, and is used for raising revenue.

It is that second one the stock market really doesn't like, and I'm not sure how it is negotiated away--or if it can be negotiated away--between the US and other countries.

 

[Hans Blaster]

So-called free trade isn’t working.

How has it failed?

 

[Merrill]

How has it failed?

well free trade might work just fine, but we haven't had that. Which is what he is saying.

go look at the statistics involving the hollowing-out of our manufacturing sector since the 1950s

Forty years of falling manufacturing employment

Despite being a leading driver of employment growth for decades, manufacturing has shed employment over the past 40 years as the U.S. economy has shifted to service-providing industries. This article looks at the broad employment trends in manufacturing over the past 40 years, as well as the...

www.bls.gov

and also see how we couldn't get critical medicines and equipment during the covid fiasco in 2020-21

that is a failure

 

[Nithavela]

I didn’t think you’d be honest.

I missed your posting behaviour.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It is my understanding that there are two pieces to the tariff policy:

Reciprocal, punitive tariffs on bad actors (China for instance), well above the 10%, and either matched to that country's import duties, or set at some arbitrary rate.

If you define "bad actors" as "anyone who runs a trade surplus with the US," then this is correct. However, I disagree with that definition.

Vietnam slaps a 90% tariff on our goods. I think Trump hit them with a 46% total tariff.

Vietnam does not tariff our goods at 90%. Their tariff rate on most US products is 15% or less, and all of their tariffs remain within WTO limits.

Vietnam - Import Tariffs

Includes information on average tariff rates and types that U.S. firms should be aware of when exporting to the market.

www.trade.gov

Rather, the ratio of their trade surplus with the US to the total value of US imports from Vietnam is about 90% (i.e. we buy a lot more stuff from them than they buy from us). Trump took that number and divided by 2 to get his so-called "reciprocal tariff" rate of 46%.

Vietnam

Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)

ustr.gov

 

[wing2000]

View attachment 363052

The "Tarrif's charged to the USA" data are apparently based on the respective country's trade deficit...a calculation no economist would ever include .

"the country’s trade deficit divided by its exports to the United States times 1/2."

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/03/economy/reciprocal-tariff-math/index.html