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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Arson attack on Republican Offices

Always in His Presence

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New Mexico Republican Party headquarters targeted in suspected arson attack, officials say

The structure suffered "damage to the front entryway and smoke damage throughout the building," fire rescue said.​
The words "ICE=KKK" were also spray-painted on the building, officials said.​
Albuquerque Fire Rescue, the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives recovered "incendiary materials" at the scene of the fire, but the investigation remains ongoing, officials said on Monday.​
The Republican Party of New Mexico said the incident was a "deliberate act of arson."​
"This horrific attack, fueled by hatred and intolerance, is a direct assault on our values, freedoms and our right to political expression," party officials said in a statement on Sunday.​
Party officials said this is not an isolated incident, claiming it is part of a "disturbing pattern of politically motivated violence that has plagued our country -- fueled in part by the silence and implicit encouragement from progressive leaders who refuse to condemn these acts."​
The violence continues and grows -
 

Fantine

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"This horrific attack, fueled by hatred and intolerance, is a direct assault on our values.​
There is an inconvenient truth hiding in that comment---and that is the level of hatred and intolerance Republicans have shown to immigrants and whipped to a fever pitch to win an election.
They pay lip service to accepting "legal" immigrants. "We are only against criminals," they say, adding that everyone who entered without documents, even if carried in an infant backpack," is a criminal.
TBT even birthright citizenship is under attack.
Surprise! Hate begets hate.
Never having walked a mile (or hundreds) in their threadbare shoes, I cannot completely understand the desperation behind such an act....
But I understand their reason.
 
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BPPLEE

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There is an inconvenient truth hiding in that comment---and that is the level of hatred and intolerance Republicans have shown to immigrants and whipped to a fever pitch to win an election.
They pay lip service to accepting "legal" immigrants. "We are only against criminals," they say, adding that everyone who entered without documents, even if carried in an infant backpack," is a criminal.
TBT even birthright citizenship is under attack.
Surprise! Hate begets hate.
Never having walked a mile (or hundreds) in their threadbare shoes, I cannot completely understand the desperation behind such an act....
But I understand their reason.
Victim blaming doesn't look good, that's like blaming a rape victim for the dress she wore
 
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Postvieww

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There is an inconvenient truth hiding in that comment---and that is the level of hatred and intolerance Republicans have shown to immigrants and whipped to a fever pitch to win an election.
They pay lip service to accepting "legal" immigrants. "We are only against criminals," they say, adding that everyone who entered without documents, even if carried in an infant backpack," is a criminal.
TBT even birthright citizenship is under attack.
Surprise! Hate begets hate.
Never having walked a mile (or hundreds) in their threadbare shoes, I cannot completely understand the desperation behind such an act....
But I understand their reason.
Shameful ! Glossing over liberal hateful violent behavior while transferring the charge of hatred to Republicans for removing murderers, rapist, human traffickers, and drug dealers. Calling evil good and good evil will never be a winning argument.
 
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Always in His Presence

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There is an inconvenient truth hiding in that comment---and that is the level of hatred and intolerance Republicans have shown to immigrants and whipped to a fever pitch to win an election.
Explain why the majority of legal immigrants support ICE and the removal of illegal aliens.
 
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Say it aint so

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Explain why the majority of legal immigrants support ICE and the removal of illegal aliens.
That may hold true for legal immigrants when it comes to illegals and violent crimes, but the majority of legal immigrants do not think all illegals should be deported.
 
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Fantine

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Victim blaming doesn't look good, that's like blaming a rape victim for the dress she wore
Curious. Are you associating mass deportations, sometimes of green card holders; deportations of all refugees with temporary protected status who fled persecution and death; deportations of exchange students for articles they wrote in student newspapers; sending them to Salvadoran prisons that are no better than concentration camps; etc. anywhere near similar to

"blaming a rape victim for the dress she wore?" I know, sometimes the defendant says the victim "invited" him to be bad.

In the case of what the Republican Party has unleashed against immigrants--the illegal, the legal, the refugees--saying they "invited" the arsonists to be bad isn't a strong enough word. Basically, their actions in the past two months have been so horrific that those harmed are showing unbelievable restraint in not fighting back more.
 
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Fantine

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Explain why the majority of legal immigrants support ICE and the removal of illegal aliens.
Explain to me why almost every immigrant who is in the United States while awaiting a decision on asylum (i.e. ones you would call 'illegal,' even though they aren't) are staying with family members or good friends who are living in the U.S. legally. Immigrants--legal and undocumented--go to Church together. They celebrate quincineras and posadas and Our Lady of Guadalupe pilgrimages together. They cook tacos and tamales together at church festivals.
Most "legal" immigrants (or their parents) came to the United States without documentation in the 70's and 80's. Reagan's amnesty made them 'legal.' And so they understand, the way you don't, what it was like to be undocumented. They made the most of that opportunity. They didn't wait on line either.
But let's say there was a "line." After the president accepted all his friends with $5 million for immigration, how many spots would be left for the poor? How do you spell "goose egg?"
 
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Fantine

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And it is the liberal faction currently engaging in insane violent acts.
There have been "isolated incidents." This fire, which never got past the doorway, could have been set by one individual.
No one wants this violence. Liberals are trying to dispense reason to a country run amuck--and there are isolated individuals who are impatient with the president ignoring the Constitution, the courts, the millions he has harmed.

I remember one time my husband had to fire someone (he had to fire people many times, and he always hated it and was sleepless the night before) and the person fired said he was going to come back to the company with a gun. The personnel department was on high alert.

We have seen many cases of people who lost their jobs going beserk and shooting people. It's very, very, very rare--isolated incidents.

But we have had tens of thousands of federal employees fired in the past six weeks by wealthiest man in the world who never even took an oath of office to uphold the Constitution. Could one of them have gone beserk?
 
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BPPLEE

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Curious. Are you associating mass deportations, sometimes of green card holders; deportations of all refugees with temporary protected status who fled persecution and death; deportations of exchange students for articles they wrote in student newspapers; sending them to Salvadoran prisons that are no better than concentration camps; etc. anywhere near similar to

"blaming a rape victim for the dress she wore?" I know, sometimes the defendant says the victim "invited" him to be bad.

In the case of what the Republican Party has unleashed against immigrants--the illegal, the legal, the refugees--saying they "invited" the arsonists to be bad isn't a strong enough word. Basically, their actions in the past two months have been so horrific that those harmed are showing unbelievable restraint in not fighting back more.
So it was illegal immigrants who set fire to the Republican offices?
 
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Always in His Presence

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Explain to me why almost every immigrant who is in the United States while awaiting a decision on asylum (i.e. ones you would call 'illegal,' even though they aren't) are staying with family members or good friends who are living in the U.S. legally. Immigrants--legal and undocumented--go to Church together. They celebrate quincineras and posadas and Our Lady of Guadalupe pilgrimages together. They cook tacos and tamales together at church festivals.
Most "legal" immigrants (or their parents) came to the United States without documentation in the 70's and 80's. Reagan's amnesty made them 'legal.' And so they understand, the way you don't, what it was like to be undocumented. They made the most of that opportunity. They didn't wait on line either.
But let's say there was a "line." After the president accepted all his friends with $5 million for immigration, how many spots would be left for the poor? How do you spell "goose egg?"
I am the son of a legal immigrant. Who follows the laws of entry.

Why didn’t you answer my question?
 
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Always in His Presence

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There have been "isolated incidents." This fire, which never got past the doorway, could have been set by one individual.
No one wants this violence. Liberals are trying to dispense reason to a country run amuck--and there are isolated individuals who are impatient with the president ignoring the Constitution, the courts, the millions he has harmed.

I remember one time my husband had to fire someone (he had to fire people many times, and he always hated it and was sleepless the night before) and the person fired said he was going to come back to the company with a gun. The personnel department was on high alert.

We have seen many cases of people who lost their jobs going beserk and shooting people. It's very, very, very rare--isolated incidents.

But we have had tens of thousands of federal employees fired in the past six weeks by wealthiest man in the world who never even took an oath of office to uphold the Constitution. Could one of them have gone beserk?
IMHO. This type of hyperbole is why the Democratic Party is at a 26% approval rating.
 
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There have been "isolated incidents." This fire, which never got past the doorway, could have been set by one individual.
No one wants this violence. Liberals are trying to dispense reason to a country run amuck--and there are isolated individuals who are impatient with the president ignoring the Constitution, the courts, the millions he has harmed.

I remember one time my husband had to fire someone (he had to fire people many times, and he always hated it and was sleepless the night before) and the person fired said he was going to come back to the company with a gun. The personnel department was on high alert.

We have seen many cases of people who lost their jobs going beserk and shooting people. It's very, very, very rare--isolated incidents.

But we have had tens of thousands of federal employees fired in the past six weeks by wealthiest man in the world who never even took an oath of office to uphold the Constitution. Could one of them have gone beserk?
The many attacks on Tesla dealerships and private Tesla owners are not "isolated incidents." ! These in some cases are organized events most likely financed by someone like or even George Sorros himself. Some screaming unhinged crowds have been seen with preprinted cards with lines to shout at Tesla owners. Liberals unhinged.
 
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The many attacks on Tesla dealerships and private Tesla owners are not "isolated incidents." ! These in some cases are organized events most likely financed by someone like or even George Sorros himself. Some screaming unhinged crowds have been seen with preprinted cards with lines to shout at Tesla owners. Liberals unhinged.
These coordinated dance moves were probably rehearsed and choreographed long before DOGE. Nothing "grassroots" comes from leftists. Everything is top down. https://x.com/i/status/1906418003526455752
 
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Fantine

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I am the son of a legal immigrant. Who follows the laws of entry.

Why didn’t you answer my question?
I couldn't find a question. You wanted me to explain why legal immigrants supported ICE and deportations.
You are speaking from your own experience. The immigrants I know are warm hearted Hispanic Catholics. They believe a warm hearted compassionate Pope Francis. They remember where they came from.
I am sure there are immigrants like the ones you describe, but not having met any personally I can't agree with your premise.
 
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MrMoe

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This sign was displayed at a Tesla protest.
Protests hit Tesla dealerships across the world in challenge to Elon Musk |  Protest | The Guardian




Openly encouraging vandalism. Meanwhile Democratic leaders like Nancy Pelosi remain eerily quiet. Tim Walz mocked Tesla but did not condemn the violence. It's no surprise the Democratic Party's approval ratings are dropping like a stone.
 
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Bradskii

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Victim blaming doesn't look good, that's like blaming a rape victim for the dress she wore
So if the victim's father beats the rapist and we say that he had it coming, then that's victim blaming?

Yeah, we've all noticed this monstrously idiotic meme being touted about whenever someone keys a Tesla or lobs a rock though someone's window. If it helps you to ignore the real pain that this administration is causing people to suffer then keep posting it. We'll all know why it's being repeated.
 
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Bradskii

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You’re comparing Republicans to rapists. I guess I compared arsonists to rapists.
No, I'm rephasing this idiotic meme to show you exactly how idiotic it is. Quite frankly, I personally think it's despicable as well as idiotic. And it's being used a lot. As moronic as it is, it's easy to mindlessly throw it out anytime there's some negative reaction to this administration. And I can't be bothered to keep endlessly repeating the obvious point that no-one is condoning any violence. Even when I point out the blazingly obvious fact that this administration is making a heck of a lot of people very angry indeed (cue someone inanely claiming 'oh, so you support this kind of act').
you’re defending the people who set fire to buildings and Teslas and vandalize people’s cars who have nothing to do with anything Musk and Trump are doing.
You can retract that immediately. I will not be accused of defending political violence in any way, shape or form. I have not done that and I will not do that. Again, I want you to retract that outrageous comment.
You can say you condemn the violence but it’s just lip service.
I condemn the violence whoever does it. I don't care what political stripe anyone is. Violence has no part to play, especially in politics. Do I make myself quite clear? Again, please retract that completely unfounded accusation.
 
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