The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[SabbathBlessings]

You have nothing but speculation to go on as to who's truly being the most loyal now to revealed truth, whereas the church, not limited to the west, has the benefit of its own legacy or lived experience. The basic doctrines of the eastern and western church were held before the NT was written and yet many of those can be plausibly argued more than one way going by Scripture alone, while you have only your best guess some 2 millenia after the fact at the end of the day. So the commandment of Jesus was written in the life and heart of the church and it stands firm on what it received, consistent with 2 Thess 2:15 as well as John 21:25.

As noted by Jesus, traditions are fine until they go against the commandments of God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God writtten by God, spoken by God, His personal Testimoney.

I don’t think Jesus could have been more clear here.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me. Because God placed His law in our hearts, and rebelling what God placed there seperated us from Him. Rom 8:7-8
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
10 When He had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”

12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”

13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

Jesus said following this path leads one to a ditch. It’s sad how many people believe that man has the authority to change God’s own personal Testimony written by God Himself. He warned us it would happen Dan 7:25.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Savage wolves have always come in, generally posing as the holiest ones, with several offspring wolflings born in the 19th century, stirring and spreading confusion, often silliness, while detracting from the full-true message. Meanwhile God has continued to preserve and govern the church He established, with its human warts and all.

That’s not what the Scriptures state, it would be right away and if we look at history and what happened to God’s people early on, it matches up. Whenever people go away from God’s Word, Jesus takes pity of His people and will send a messenger to try to get people back on track because He loves us so much.

2 Cor 3:15 And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You have nothing but speculation to go on as to who's truly being the most loyal now to revealed truth, whereas the church, not limited to the west, has the benefit of its own legacy or lived experience along with Scripture. The basic doctrines of the eastern and western church were held before the NT was written and yet many of those can be plausibly argued more than one way going by Scripture alone, while you have only your best guess some 2 millenia after the fact at the end of the day. So the commandment of Jesus was written in the life and heart of the church and it stands firm on what it received, consistent with 2 Thess 2:15 as well as John 21:25.

Speculation? You are the one claiming the commandment changed yet have produced no Scripture that commands we are to keep Sunday holy or that the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of God. I have God’s Word that He wrote and He spoke the Sabbath commandment Exo 20:8-11 it is part of His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 that He said He would not alter Deut 4:2 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19. My friend, the speculation is on your end.

 

[fhansen]

2 Cor 3:15 And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

And a variety of people with widely diverse beliefs have loved to believe themselves to be that remnant, those holier ones that are being mocked. Nothing new-the beat goes on. You're mocking the messengers of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And a variety of people with widely diverse beliefs have loved to believe themselves to be that remnant, those holier ones that are being mocked. Nothing new-the beat goes on. You're mocking the messengers of God.

I am not claiming anything, I am quoting what the Bible says.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is God’s version of the commandments, not what we were warned would be changed Dan 7:25 that He said He would not Psa 89:34 Deut 4:2 Mat 5:18-19

I guess all will get sorted out soon enough.

 

[fhansen]

Speculation? You are the one claiming the commandment changed yet have produced no Scripture that says that commands we are to keep Sunday holy or that the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of God. I have God’s Word that He wrote and He spoke the Sabbath commandment Exo 20:8-11 it is part of His personal Testimony Exo 31:18 that He said He would not alter Deut 4:2 Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19. My friend, the speculation is on your end.

You're speculating even now. The bible was never written to serve as some sort of exhaustive, clear and systematic catechism, which is why it's so easily interpreted in conflicting ways by sincere people, both amateur and expert exegetes alike-and yet you and many insist on treating it as if it is. Meanwhile the church knows from where it came. What Scripture does definitively tell us is that there were many oral, unwritten teachings-and to hold onto them. Which teachings do you think they were speaking of?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You're speculating even now. The bible was never written to serve as some sort of exhaustive, clear and systematic catechism, which is why it's so easily interpreted in conflicting ways by sincere people, both amateur and expert exegetes alike-and yet you and many insist on treating it as if it is. Meanwhile the church knows from where it came. What Scripture does definitively tell us is that there were many oral, unwritten teachings-and to hold onto them. Which teachings do you think they were speaking of?

Psa 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[fhansen]

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And the ancient churches from the beginning have consistentl, strongly, taught the keeping of the commandments, in the face of animosity from those who call it a "works righteousness" mentaltiy.

 

[fhansen]

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Yes, and you're ignoring the parts of His word that interfere with your preferred theology.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, and you're ignoring the parts of His word that interfere with your preferred theology.

Ok when you can produce the verse where it is a commandment to keep Sunday holy in lieu of the Sabbath commandment let me know. Until then I am going to follow what Jesus said Math 15:3-14 John 14:15 Isa 56:2 Exo 20:6

Be well

 

[fhansen]

Ok when you can produce the verse where it is a commandment to keep Sunday holy in lieu of the Sabbath commandment let me know. Until then I am going to follow what Jesus said Math 15:3-14 John 14:15 Isa 56:2 Exo 20:6

Be well

I'll do so, when you can produce the verse that says that everything the church of God believes and does must be recorded in Scripture.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'll do so, when you can produce the verse that says that everything the church of God believes and does must be recorded in Scripture.

Is the warning going away from God’s Word not enough Isa 8:20. There is nothing wrong some traditions but Jesus had a clause, and it’s a pretty stern one if you ask me, and that clause is when we keep traditions over God’s commandments. Mat 15:3-14. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, one that was never abrogated in God’s Holy Word. I believe God used Remember as appropriate as He knew everyone would want to forget.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree

 

[fhansen]

Is the warning going away from God’s Word not enough Isa 8:20. There is nothing wrong with traditions but Jesus had a clause, and it’s a pretty stern one if you ask me, and that clause is when we keep traditions over God’s commandments. Mat 15:3-14. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, one that was never abrogated in God’s Holy Word. I believe God used Remember as appropriate as He knew everyone would want to forget.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree

Again, why would anyone want to forget a single commandment that isn't even difficult to fulfill while remembering all the rest that are harder since most of them apply to things that appeal more directly to our selfish sinful covetous prideful natures? And nothing was forgotten or abrogated anyway, but rather observed in a new way under a new covenant; the obligation remained!! There was simply no reason for the change unless a new reason was given, a new day was more highly regarded now. While the seventh day was still observed to some extent as the Jews did, it simply wasn't considered to be critical anymore in the new way of the Spirit.

Arians, JWs, SDAs, Mormons, and a host of others before and after all vie to usurp the big bad church's position, viewing themselves as the restored church in one way or another, as a holy persecuted remnant, easier to believe at first, perhaps, when they're still small themselves-and in certain cases hadn't yet experienced enough time to see their prophecies fail. Either way they all have their gimmicks to set themselves exclusively apart from the rest.

Yes, I dont 'spose we'll be agreeing to agree anytime soon.

 

[The Liturgist]

Unfortunately there was not much left of the early church according to the scriptures.

The Great Apostasy is not Scriptural, being expressly refuted by Matthew 16:18.

We know who the savage wolves were: the Docetics and related groups like the Valentinians who taught salvation by secret knowledge, the Pelagians who claimed we could save ourselves, the Marcionites, the Arians, Apollinarians, Tritheists and Nestorians who denied the Incarnation, the Ebionites who taught salvation through adherence to the law, and false prophets from West Asia such as Mani and Muhammed.

And more recently, the leaders of heretical sects of a restorationist nature like the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, or of an esoteric nature like the Swedenborgians, Christadelphians and the New Thought movement such as Christian Science, and finally the extremes of liberal transcendentalist and Nihilist theology, for example, Unitarianism and Unitarian Universalism, and the present state of the Remonstrants, and also the move to abandon scriptural doctrine and embrace abortion and sexual immorality.

 

[The Liturgist]

Is the warning going away from God’s Word not enough Isa 8:20. There is nothing wrong with traditions but Jesus had a clause, and it’s a pretty stern one if you ask me, and that clause is when we keep traditions over God’s commandments. Mat 15:3-14. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, one that was never abrogated in God’s Holy Word.

The Orthodox keep the Sabbath, but in any case we should not allow anyone to judge us over how we keep the Sabbath. While we retain worship on Saturday as one of the two Scripturally indicated liturgical days throughout the year, the Roman Catholic understanding of the Sabbath posted by @fhansen seems to me to also constitute a proper observation of it. But that said almost all Roman Catholic churches have masses on Saturday and indeed the Romans, who believe their laity are required to attend services on Holy Days of Obligation, now allow this to happen via the Saturday liturgies. Thus you should not be judging them. And 2 Peter 3:16 is not a license to selectively disregard Pauline epistles.

I believe God used Remember as appropriate as He knew everyone would want to forget.

God also used Remember in regard to Holy Communion.

Indeed he did more than that: the word Anamnesis translated inadequately as “remembrance” (the Greek word has multiple meanings, like most Greek words used in Scripture, so as to indicate recapitulation, or to put it as simply as possible, the meaning is “put yourself in this moment.”

 

[The Liturgist]

You keep referring to your church, but our focus should be on Jesus Christ.

The Church is the Body of Christ our True God, according to the God the Holy Spirit through His inspired writings.

Ecclesiology cannot be separated from Christology.

 

[The Liturgist]

I know that’s what your church says but from my study it’s not what I believe.

But the historical fact is the 27 book New Testament canon was compiled by a bishop of the Orthodox Church, St. Athanasius of Alexandria, which keeps the Sabbath, on the seventh day even, of which EGW was apparently unaware.

We have the documents proving this. We also have ancient manuscripts of the Bible from before the universal adoption of the Athanasian canon.

What we do not have is any evidence to support the history of the early church presented in The Great Controversy.

 

[The Liturgist]

You are the one claiming the commandment changed yet have produced no Scripture that commands we are to keep Sunday holy or that the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of God.

@fhansen never claimed that. Neither did I. Other members of a Protestant persuasion have made such claims, which are interesting, but not what the CCC teaches and certainly not what Holy Orthodoxy teaches.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Do not forget that Jesus was changing the Law even before the cross (for example about hating your enemy).


Look, if you have no Scripture saying that Jesus kept the Sabbath, just say it without these nonsensical tactics. Why is it so hard for a dogmatic to simply acknowledge facts? We cannot conclude whether Jesus kept Sabbath or not from the absence of such verses, but it is a fact that such verses do not exist. Deal with it like a man.

Jesus explained the commandments in detail how to follow them and why

as for the proof you do not believe so here it is again;

Luke 4:16 (NKJV):

"So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read."

what else could this verse mean?. as it was HIS custom he went to the synagogue ON THE SABBATH DAY and read to the people there He was an exceptional teacher.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

@fhansen never claimed that. Neither did I. Other members of a Protestant persuasion have made such claims, which are interesting, but not what the CCC teaches and certainly not what Holy Orthodoxy teaches.

Quotes from Catholic sources claims something different. Exalting a day God said is for work and labors as holy Exo 20:9 over the day God deemed to be kept as holy Exo 20;10 is essentially the same thing. Eze 22:26