Tesla vehicles vandalized across US since Musk began White House role

[Bradskii]

Anyone who makes incorrect assumptions about who I voted for should tread carefully when questioning someone's intelligence. It's getting awfully close to flaming and it sounds like you're justifying vandalism by saying "Well someone else did it too "

That wasn't the point being made. And anyone who thought it was is having a difficulty with comprehension. The problem is with hypocrisy in that people who support violence in some cases and/or the pardoning of those involved have no right to complain when it happens elsewhere.

Violence, and particularly political violence should be condemned by all. As you have seen, people are supporting the right to make their views known, but NOT by violent means. The very opposite of 'Whataboutism' as you erroneously described it. I'm absolutely sure that you'd agree. In every case.

You can confirm that or not as you see fit.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well if you were Catholic or voiced your opinion at a school board meeting you were on the list under the previous administration

If you were an extremist of either kind, yes.

 

[BPPLEE]

That wasn't the point being made. And anyone who thought it was is having a difficulty with comprehension. The problem is with hypocrisy in that people who support violence in some cases and/or the pardoning of those involved have no right to complain when it happens elsewhere.

Violence, and particularly political violence should be condemned by all. As you have seen, people are supporting the right to make their views known, but NOT by violent means. I'm absolutely sure that you'd agree. In every case. You can confirm that or not as you see fit.

This is nothing more than a sophisticated whatabout or as you call it a schoolyard argument.
And as has been pointed out just because people were pardoned doesn't mean they weren't punished

 

[iluvatar5150]

These domestic terrorist are destroying small business owners and the environment.

Unlike with other brands, Tesla dealerships are all owned by Tesla. Unless you had something else in mind, there are no small businesses here.

 

[Bradskii]

This is nothing more than a sophisticated whatabout or as you call it a schoolyard argument.
And as has been pointed out just because people were pardoned doesn't mean they weren't punished.

Whataboutism is used to justify an act because someone else has done it. The usual schoolyard argument. The opinions being voiced here are not doing that. Nobody is justifying any violent act against a Tesla dealer just because there were violent acts committed on Jan 6. In fact, everyone posting so far has condemned them. Just as most of us condemned the violence on Jan 6.

You are free to join us in condemning political violence in all cases. Including Jan 6.

 

[BPPLEE]

Whataboutism is used to justify an act because someone else has done it. The usual schoolyard argument. The opinions being voiced here are not doing that. Nobody is justifying any violent act against a Tesla dealer just because there were violent acts committed on Jan 6. In fact, everyone posting so far has condemned them. Just as most of us condemned the violence on Jan 6.

You are free to join us in condemning political violence in all cases. Including Jan 6.

I condemn everyone who attacked police officers or damaged property on January 6th and they've been punished for it

 

[ozso]

Vandalize a Tesla dealership? Trump says he'll label that domestic terrorism.​

I'd say firebombing qualifies as domestic terrorism.

 

[BPPLEE]

I'd say firebombing qualifies as domestic terrorism.

But it's mostly peaceful

 

[expos4ever]

This is what you would call a "Whatabout " if someone presented a similar argument to you

No.

To point out that a person who criticizes the vandalism Teslas yet supports the pardoning of violent offenders is indeed relevant - it shows that we cannot take the position of such a person seriously as they demonstrate a clear, jarring inconsistency in how they make moral judgements. That does not mean they are factually wrong in criticizing the Tesla vandals - it just means we need another argument to come to the conclusion that vandalizing Teslas is wrong as we obviously cannot confer moral authority on anyone who claims that vandalizing a Tesla is wrong while also believing that pardoning rioters is OK.

"Whataboutism" is different - it is a trick to evade a challenging argument. To wit: If you claimed that Joe Biden should not have pardoned Hunter and my response was merely "what about Donald Trump pardoning the rioters" without addressing the Biden pardon, I would be clearly evading having to defend the Biden pardon - that is a "whatabout".

I never evaded anything - I clearly agreed that vandalizing Tesla is wrong. No evasion, therefore no whataboutism.

 

[BPPLEE]

No.

To point out that a person who criticizes the vandalism Teslas yet supports the pardoning of violent offenders is indeed relevant - it shows that we cannot take the position of such a person seriously as they demonstrate a clear, jarring inconsistency in how they make moral judgements.

And that is very much of relevance - why should we trust the moral judgements of those who exhibit such blatant inconsistency?

"Whataboutism" is different - it is a trick to evade a challenging argument. To wit: If you claimed that Joe Biden should not have pardoned Hunter and my response was "what about Donald Trump pardoning the rioters", I would be clearly moving the goalposts - artfully evading having to defend the Biden pardon - that is a "whatabout".

I never evaded anything - I clearly agreed that vandalizing Tesla is wrong. No evasion, therefore no whataboutism.

The violent offenders were punished, just because they were pardoned doesn’t mean they didn’t serve time. January 6th has nothing to do with Tesla being fire bombed and is indeed a thinly veiled whataboutism

 

[Bradskii]

The violent offenders were punished, just because they were pardoned doesn’t mean they didn’t serve time. January 6th has nothing to do with Tesla being fire bombed and is indeed a thinly veiled whataboutism

If they were pardoned because they'd served enough time then you might have a rather weak point. But not a relevant one that could be used here because no-one is arguing that violent protests are ok. Trump pardoned them because he said they were innocent: Trump downplays role on Jan. 6 and says some Capitol rioters are 'innocent'

"What they’ve done to some people that are so innocent...'

Again, it's irrelevant. Stop using it as an excuse to reject what no-one is proposing.

 

[BPPLEE]

If they were pardoned because they'd served enough time then you might have a rather weak point. But not a relevant one that could be used here because no-one is arguing that violent protests are ok. Trump pardoned them because he said they were innocent: Trump downplays role on Jan. 6 and says some Capitol rioters are 'innocent'

"What they’ve done to some people that are so innocent...'

Again, it's irrelevant. Stop using it as an excuse to reject what no-one is proposing.

Some people were guilty of no more than trespassing and some of that was questionable because the Capital Police held the doors open for them.
So I agree that some innocent people got caught up in this and were unfairly punished
But this thread is not about January 6th

 

[ozso]

No.

To point out that a person who criticizes the vandalism Teslas yet supports the pardoning of violent offenders is indeed relevant - it shows that we cannot take the position of such a person seriously as they demonstrate a clear, jarring inconsistency in how they make moral judgements. That does not mean they are factually wrong in criticizing the Tesla vandals - it just means we need another argument to come to the conclusion that vandalizing Teslas is wrong as we obviously cannot confer moral authority on anyone who claims that vandalizing a Tesla is wrong while also believing that pardoning rioters is OK.

Here's the gaping flaw in that viral routine. They're saying vandalism is wrong, they are not saying Tesla vandals shouldn't ever be pardoned. That's how the two would actually connect. "you condone pardoning Jan 6th vandals, but you condemn pardoning Tesla vandals". That puts both on an even plane.

A crime that's committed and a pardon are two differ things. Saying you're okay with pardons by not okay with crime, is a false equivalency. Personally I was not okay with what happened Jan 6th. But I was okay with the pardon because they had been punished enough. Likewise while I'm not okay with Teslas being firebombed, I'd probably be okay with the vandal(s) being pardoned after they had served some time.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

These domestic terrorist are destroying small business owners and the environment.

The 40 year old is actually a man. Anyone surprised?

I sincerely hope that President Trump, with all his wisdom, does not pardon these terrorist as he did with those terrorist involved in the January 6 events. It is crucial to uphold law and order in society; therefore, individuals who vandalize property or burn down businesses should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the U.S. justice system. A president should refrain from pardoning such actions.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

The only shooting I know about was the killing of Ashley Babbitt

She would still be alive today if she had not engaged in a violent protest. It wasn't the law enforcement officer's fault that Ashly chose to forcibly enter Capitol Hill after being repeatedly warned not to.

 

[Vambram]

She would still be alive today if she had not engaged in a violent protest. It wasn't the law enforcement officer's fault that Ashly chose to forcibly enter Capitol Hill after being repeatedly warned not to.

I disagree there. The police officer panicked and he had a history of previous problems, or avoidable incidents, with civilians. I've got to go to work therefore I don't have time to look this up on the internet.

 

[7thKeeper]

I disagree there. The police officer panicked and he had a history of previous problems, or avoidable incidents, with civilians. I've got to go to work therefore I don't have time to look this up on the internet.

No panic in this situation at least. She was breaking through a barricade, was warned to stop and when she didn't, she was shot. And now she can rot where all those who betray their oaths do.

 

[Vambram]

No panic in this situation at least. She was breaking through a barricade, was warned to stop and when she didn't, she was shot. And now she can rot where all those who betray their oaths do.

The police officer panicked and killed an unarmed person. The rest of your post ain't worthy of a response from me.

 

[7thKeeper]

The police officer panicked and killed an unarmed person. The rest of your post ain't worthy of a response from me.

Oddly calm panicking. As far as I've seen, she played stupid games and won a prize. Was told to back away and didn't. Traitor got what she deserved.

 

[BPPLEE]

Oddly calm panicking. As far as I've seen, she played stupid games and won a prize. Was told to back away and didn't. Traitor got what she deserved.

“And now she can rot where all those who betray their oaths do. Traitor got what she deserved.”
The kind, compassionate words of the left