"I now recognize the Representative from Deleware, Mr. McBride."

[Oompa Loompa]

I am not condoning transgenderism, just as I do not condone lying, cheating, stealing, or any other sin.
I remind you that Jesus continually reached out to the ostracized, the scorned. He saw the image of God in them and, as fully human, knew what rejection and scorn felt like.
As I said, McBride can be addressed as Representative, and "debates" can be about the topics they are paid to discuss, currently the federal budget. Rep. McBride's gender is irrelevant to the issue the House is grappling with.
The state of Delaware amends birth certificates of transgender individuals who submit medical affidavits.

Google Search

Legally Rep. McBride is listed as female on the birth registry.

So what would Jesus say to a transgender to get them to repent?

They get elected President, apparently.

We are then to treat these people like how the left treats Trump? That doesn't sound very Christ like.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Perhaps on this occasion he decided to put truth and reality to the test.

At the expense of someone else.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I am not condoning transgenderism, just as I do not condone lying, cheating, stealing, or any other sin.
I remind you that Jesus continually reached out to the ostracized, the scorned. He saw the image of God in them and, as fully human, knew what rejection and scorn felt like.
As I said, McBride can be addressed as Representative, and "debates" can be about the topics they are paid to discuss, currently the federal budget. Rep. McBride's gender is irrelevant to the issue the House is grappling with.
The state of Delaware amends birth certificates of transgender individuals who submit medical affidavits.

Google Search

Legally Rep. McBride is listed as female on the birth registry.

The official Catholic Church position on Transgenderism.

"In this light, the Church recognizes that every human person is created in the image and likeness of God, male or female (Gen. 1:26-27). And so we should help people discover their true identities as children of God, not support them in the disordered attempt to reject their undeniable biological identity."

The Church's Position on "Transgenderism"

If they correct you on calling them “Mr.,” “Miss,” etc., circumvent that issue by asking them their name. And then proceed in Christian love from there.

www.catholic.com

It seems as though Republicans did the correct thing according to the Roman Catholic Church. @Fantine aren't you a Catholic?

 

[Always in His Presence]

The official Catholic Church position on Transgenderism.

"In this light, the Church recognizes that every human person is created in the image and likeness of God, male or female (Gen. 1:26-27). And so we should help people discover their true identities as children of God, not support them in the disordered attempt to reject their undeniable biological identity."

The Church's Position on "Transgenderism"

If they correct you on calling them “Mr.,” “Miss,” etc., circumvent that issue by asking them their name. And then proceed in Christian love from there.

www.catholic.com

It seems as though Republicans did the correct thing according to the Roman Catholic Church. @Fantine aren't you a Catholic?

The Catholic Church also has strong stances on homosexuality and abortion.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The Catholic Church also has strong stances on homosexuality and abortion.

Yes, they do. I am just curious as to what the Catholics on this forum think about the situation considering they basically say to avoid using preferred pronouns and feed into their delusion and instead use their preferred name. So the Catholic position would have been the representative intruding McBride as "The Honorable Representative from Deleware." However, when pushed to use his preferred pronouns, the GOP representative was right to refuse.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It seems as though Republicans did the correct thing according to the Roman Catholic Church.

"If they correct you on calling them “Mr.,” “Miss,” etc., circumvent that issue by asking them their name. And then proceed in Christian love from there."

 

[Fantine]

Do they leave off Mr or gentle Lady for everyone else? If not, the man who thinks he is a women needs to sit down and shut up. He deserves no special privileges because he is confused.

How about the "gentleperson?"

The official Catholic Church position on Transgenderism.

"In this light, the Church recognizes that every human person is created in the image and likeness of God, male or female (Gen. 1:26-27). And so we should help people discover their true identities as children of God, not support them in the disordered attempt to reject their undeniable biological identity."

The Church's Position on "Transgenderism"

If they correct you on calling them “Mr.,” “Miss,” etc., circumvent that issue by asking them their name. And then proceed in Christian love from there.

www.catholic.com

It seems as though Republicans did the correct thing according to the Roman Catholic Church. @Fantine aren't you a Catholic?

I read the article completely differently. There was none of the recommended "love" in the chairman's remarks in the Capitol before a large audience. It was an attempt to humiliate and demean--both sinful acts Jesus would condemn.
"Counsel" means a quiet conversation based on mutual respect between two children of God.
Reread the article. You will see the Chairman's actions as hateful.and inappropriate. Use Representative. The gentleperson. For possessive, "McBride's." Easy.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

How about the "gentleperson?"

I read the article completely differently. There was none of the recommended "love" in the chairman's remarks in the Capitol before a large audience. It was an attempt to humiliate and demean--both sinful acts Jesus would condemn.
"Counsel" means a quiet conversation based on mutual respect between two children of God.
Reread the article. You will see the Chairman's actions as hateful.and inappropriate. Use Representative. The gentleperson. For possessive, "McBride's." Easy.

What would Jesus say to him to encourage him to repent?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It seems as though Republicans did the correct thing according to the Roman Catholic Church. @Fantine aren't you a Catholic?

Well, I am Catholic also.....though pretty marginal in some ways...like this one.
I think though that Catholic teaching ought to be applied only to people who desire to be Catholic.
And yet we are still free to advocate for our personal theology in the public forum.

That reference to Genesis "created in the image and likeness of God, male or female.." as a general rule and in the vast majority of cases that is true.
But we also know there are abnormalities, deviations form the general rule. The question then is how do we treat them. I often will check with the American Solidarity Party platform because they seem to me to have a common sense middle ground on most issues. On this one all they state is:

• We reject the idea that surgical or hormonal treatment to circumvent the natural, healthy development and function of the body is health care. We also contend that gender transition treatments are medical malpractice.
• We vigorously defend the right of parents to protect their children from “gender affirmation” requirements. We call for legislation prohibiting any form of gender reassignment of children.

That seem too strong to me. Suppose someone is not Catholic nor even Christian. Why should they except a theology of the body based on Genesis?

 

[ozso]

At the expense of someone else.

Sometimes the truth hurts. And expecting others to go along with a lie, is at their expense. Unfortunately going along with such a lie, only enables and facilitates sin.

 

[ozso]

Well, I am Catholic also.....though pretty marginal in some ways...like this one.
I think though that Catholic teaching ought to be applied only to people who desire to be Catholic.
And yet we are still free to advocate for our personal theology in the public forum.

That reference to Genesis "created in the image and likeness of God, male or female.." as a general rule and in the vast majority of cases that is true.
But we also know there are abnormalities, deviations form the general rule. The question then is how do we treat them. I often will check with the American Solidarity Party platform because they seem to me to have a common sense middle ground on most issues. On this one all they state is:

• We reject the idea that surgical or hormonal treatment to circumvent the natural, healthy development and function of the body is health care. We also contend that gender transition treatments are medical malpractice.
• We vigorously defend the right of parents to protect their children from “gender affirmation” requirements. We call for legislation prohibiting any form of gender reassignment of children.

That seem too strong to me. Suppose someone is not Catholic nor even Christian. Why should they except a theology of the body based on Genesis?

A Christian does not have to be Catholic to accept theology based on scripture. Non-christians need to have biblical truth presented to them whether or not they accept it. Although most accept some of it like do not lie, steal, or kill and love your neighbor etc. I believe many who advocate for transgenderism know in their hearts that it's not a good thing. But they feel they have to go along with it, because the secular ideology they've committed themselves to says they must.

 

[Fantine]

What would Jesus say to him to encourage him to repent?

Jesus would not single the transgender individual out in a very public meeting which was televised on C-Span.

He would not call the transgender individual "Mr. McBride."

He would meet with the individual privately as a friend. He would listen carefully and non-judgmentally to the individual's feelings. He would try to ascertain the hurts and wounds and pain that often have causative roles in psychological and emotional difficulties.

He would then lay hands on the individual and bring the individual healing.

 

[BPPLEE]

Jesus would not single the transgender individual out in a very public meeting which was televised on C-Span.

He would not call the transgender individual "Mr. McBride."

He would meet with the individual privately as a friend. He would listen carefully and non-judgmentally to the individual's feelings. He would try to ascertain the hurts and wounds and pain that often have causative roles in psychological and emotional difficulties.

He would then lay hands on the individual and bring the individual healing.

If he healed the person does that mean they would accept the sex they were born with?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I believe many who advocate for transgenderism know in their hearts that it's not a good thing.

That is purely your belief and nothing more.

But they feel they have to go along with it, because the secular ideology they've committed themselves to says they must.

Well now you have truly hit upon something worth talking about, secular ideology. It is difficult to know what to do with it because we live in a pluralistic society. More and more so every day our NON-secular beliefs diverge more and more even among Christians, even among Catholics. How much more so among people who claim no specific faith and no faith at all. As a whole our culture can often seem groundless, anchorless no solid firm basis we can agree on and thus for some no basis at all other than personal mood of the day.

What can we do?

I believe we have to give each other the free don to be wrong in our own eyes. We can express our opinions and advocate for our views but at some point we also have to let them go their own way. Empathy is the key. Without that we are just engaging in a pointless and perhaps very judgmental argument. I am guilty of that. When I see I am going there I make a shift. Rather then telling start to ask no threatening questions.

On this particular issue I disagree with my Church. If a guy wants to be called Cathy or whatever, I will. The he, she, they can be avoided with preferred name.

 

[Fantine]

If he healed the person does that mean they would accept the sex they were born with?

Scientifically I'm not sure. There appears to be some scientific genetic basis for transgenderism.
There is also a genetic basis for criminal behavior.
Alcoholism. Addiction.

Does that mean it's not a sin?

It means that God has given every individual a unique set of challenges and circumstances. None of us is born without any challenges. Does God judge a person who was born to addicted parents, abandoned at age 5, raised in indifferent foster homes, etc. as harshly for the same objective 'sin' as someone born and raised in a financially comfortable loving family? I think not.

Genetic predispositions can diminish responsibility and culpability. Alcoholism is a sin, but also a disease. Where does the disease end and the sin begin?

My take is that when Jesus heals a person he is able to overcome the challenges because he knows he has a partner sharing his sorrows and difficulties.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Well, I am Catholic also.....though pretty marginal in some ways...like this one.
I think though that Catholic teaching ought to be applied only to people who desire to be Catholic.
And yet we are still free to advocate for our personal theology in the public forum.

That reference to Genesis "created in the image and likeness of God, male or female.." as a general rule and in the vast majority of cases that is true.
But we also know there are abnormalities, deviations form the general rule. The question then is how do we treat them. I often will check with the American Solidarity Party platform because they seem to me to have a common sense middle ground on most issues. On this one all they state is:

• We reject the idea that surgical or hormonal treatment to circumvent the natural, healthy development and function of the body is health care. We also contend that gender transition treatments are medical malpractice.
• We vigorously defend the right of parents to protect their children from “gender affirmation” requirements. We call for legislation prohibiting any form of gender reassignment of children.

That seem too strong to me. Suppose someone is not Catholic nor even Christian. Why should they except a theology of the body based on Genesis?

What is a "marginal Catholic?" From what I understand, you are either in line with the Catholic Church, or you are not.

 

[ozso]

That is purely your belief and nothing more.

Not really, scripture talks about conviction that goes unheeded.

Well now you have truly hit upon something worth talking about, secular ideology. It is difficult to know what to do with it because we live in a pluralistic society. More and more so every day our NON-secular beliefs diverge more and more even among Christians, even among Catholics. How much more so among people who claim no specific faith and no faith at all. As a whole our culture can often seem groundless, anchorless no solid firm basis we can agree on and thus for some no basis at all other than personal mood of the day.

I'm not quite following that. What's an example of the non-secular belief you're speaking of?

What can we do?

I believe we have to give each other the free don to be wrong in our own eyes. We can express our opinions and advocate for our views but at some point we also have to let them go their own way. Empathy is the key. Without that we are just engaging in a pointless and perhaps very judgmental argument. I am guilty of that. When I see I am going there I make a shift. Rather then telling start to ask no threatening questions.

On this particular issue I disagree with my Church. If a guy wants to be called Cathy or whatever, I will. The he, she, they can be avoided with preferred name.

Really what that comes out to, especially concerning Christians, is we're supposed to completely avoid hurting anyone's feelings and also keep our mouths shut. I'm not saying that's your idea personally, but rather that's the idea in general.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Jesus would not single the transgender individual out in a very public meeting which was televised on C-Span.

He would not call the transgender individual "Mr. McBride."

He would meet with the individual privately as a friend. He would listen carefully and non-judgmentally to the individual's feelings. He would try to ascertain the hurts and wounds and pain that often have causative roles in psychological and emotional difficulties.

He would then lay hands on the individual and bring the individual healing.

He also flipped tables and called Pharesees "Broods of Vipers." So from what you stated, you then recognize that transgenderism is something that can be healed through prayer and speaking truth in love? Your thoughts?

He would not call the transgender individual "Mr. McBride."

Yet the Catholic Church instructs its members not to use preferred pronouns. So perhaps the better alternative would be to say, "The Honorable Representative from Deleware."

 

[RileyG]

Because the chairmen address her that way to be "accurate." He did it to malign a sitting member of Congress. He did it to publicly demean and disrespect her. Possibly even to elicit a reaction as happened. It was indeed hateful and unprofessional.

That’s entirely fair, but it was still his choice.

 

[RileyG]

No one should be required to indulge someone's fantasy no matter how far they take it. If McBride "identified" as a princess and wore a tiara, no one should be required to address him as "Your Royal Highness". And if some congressman actually decided to do that, probably no one would go along with it, and he would probably be told to leave the room.

This. Not going along with someone’s delusion isn’t rude. It’s actually compassionate. Period.