Europe Is Now Alone (well, with US guarantees)

[Laodicean60]

1. The 2% since 2014 was a guideline, not an obligation.

Lol, NATO didn't take it seriously. Even Trump reminded you guys in 2018, and what happened was it took a war in 2022 before you realized you needed military spending. Sad how the USA gets blamed for your own policy decisions.

On one hand you are always talking about the Europe being economically dead, the EU being on the brink of collapse and on the other hand you expect Europe to spend astronomical amounts on armies (and on the weapons you are selling).

Quote please? But speaking on economics, trying to build up a military now is way more expensive than doing it before the war because of your energy woes.

Only way for achieving cost savings is by reducing the size of the United States Armed Forces.

There are plenty of ways to reduce spending that currently no liberal here agrees with.

If the United States were to leave NATO, we would need to significantly expand our military capabilities.

Why do you say this? Are you thinking NATO will go to war with the USA?

 

[Always in His Presence]

His actions speak for themselves.

correct:

Trump threatens 'large scale' sanctions on Russia until a peace deal with Ukraine is reached​

“Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely ‘pounding’ Ukraine on the battlefield right now, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia until a Cease Fire and FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT ON PEACE IS REACHED. To Russia and Ukraine, get to the table right now, before it is too late. Thank you!!!” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social.​

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[Always in His Presence]

What concerns me is that many Americans do not fully understand the danger of the US finding Europe as an adversary instead of an ally.

And who is doing that - besides your neighbor?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Absolutely incorrect - reducing spending system wide and reducing the size of the government would achieve cost savings. Bearing in Mind our President has repeated state they will NOT cut Medicare, Medicaid or SSI.

Friend, we need to keep things in context. I'm referring to the US defense budget in that post, not Medicare or Medicaid or US federal budget.

The only way to reduce the US defense budget is by decreasing the size of the military or quality. I welcome your suggestions for cost-saving measures in the Pentagon without downsizing the military.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Friend, we need to keep things in context. I'm referring to the US defense budget in that post, not Medicare or Medicaid or US federal budget.

The only way to reduce the US defense budget is by decreasing the size of the military or quality. I welcome your suggestions for cost-saving measures in the Pentagon without downsizing the military.

Why are you completely ignore where the discressionary spending is happening? Why only the military?

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

And who is doing that - besides your neighbor?

The weather in Wisconsin is wonderful today, almost 53°F.. How's the weather in your area?

 

[trophy33]

Lol, NATO didn't take it seriously. Even Trump reminded you guys in 2018, and what happened was it took a war in 2022 before you realized you needed military spending. Sad how the USA gets blamed for your own policy decisions.

It seems you do not read. Again, it was not an obligation, it was a guideline. USA is not blamed for that, I am not even sure what is your logic there.

 

[Laodicean60]

It seems you do not read.

You've accused me this way before.

t was not an obligation, it was a guideline.

But because of your poor policy decisions not recognizing geoploitical climate you guys failed. The "guideline" was recommended because of Crimea.

I repeat:
"Sad how the USA gets blamed for your own policy decisions."

 

[trophy33]

I repeat:
"Sad how the USA gets blamed for your own policy decisions."

You repeat it wrongly. USA is not blamed for our policy decisions and for our priorities like COVID crisis or having heating and electricity during winters after the sanctions against Russia.

The military of Europe is strong enough and is getting stronger every day. What the USA gets blamed for is weakening treaties and sending wrong messages like:
"I would encourage Russia to attack NATO countries that do not pay enough" (Trump)
or:
"The EU was established to screw the USA" (Trump)

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Why do you say this? Are you thinking NATO will go to war with the USA?

NATO countries are unlikely to go to war with the US. However, if NATO weakens and Article 5 loses its importance, Europe might form new alliances or strengthen the EU military, spending up to 1 trillion USD annually. This could make Europe less dependent on the US. While it may seem advantageous for the US not to defend Europe in the short term, a stronger, independent Europe might become a rival rather than an ally.

Would the US benefit more from the EU as an ally or a foe?

 

[wing2000]

correct:

Trump threatens 'large scale' sanctions on Russia until a peace deal with Ukraine is reached​

“Based on the fact that Russia is absolutely ‘pounding’ Ukraine on the battlefield right now, I am strongly considering large scale Banking Sanctions, Sanctions, and Tariffs on Russia until a Cease Fire and FINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT ON PEACE IS REACHED. To Russia and Ukraine, get to the table right now, before it is too late. Thank you!!!” Trump wrote in a post on Truth Social.​

​

​

One Truth Social post is not action. I have yet to see any follow-up posts or actions since.....

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Why are you completely ignore where the discressionary spending is happening? Why only the military?

The discussion was about US spending on the defense of Europe, specifically focusing on defense spending rather than the overall US federal budget. My argument is that even if the US withdraws from Europe and leaves NATO, the US defense budget will not decrease unless the size of the military is reduced.

 

[wing2000]

The discussion was about US spending on the defense of Europe, specifically focusing on defense spending rather than the overall US federal budget. My argument is that even if the US withdraws from Europe and leaves NATO, the US defense budget will not decrease unless the size of the military is reduced.

Indeed, the latest "Continuing Resolution" by Speaker Johnson proposes more defense spending:

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/08/gop-funding-patch-boosts-defense-and-deportations-cuts-other-programs-00219797

It's a contradiction we saw during Trump 1.0 -- Calls to reduce the US military abroad, while increasing the defense budget....

 

[Vambram]

Indeed, the latest "Continuing Resolution" by Speaker Johnson proposes more defense spending:

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/08/gop-funding-patch-boosts-defense-and-deportations-cuts-other-programs-00219797

It's a contradiction we saw during Trump 1.0 -- Calls to reduce the US military abroad, while increasing the defense budget....

According to the politico article, Speaker Johnson is proposing a $6 billion dollars increase. According to my math, that is less than 1% increase in DoD spending from the previous budget for the DoD. Meanwhile, many Americans know that the Pentagon and the DoD has failed audits continously every year over the last several years, if not longer. The DoD and the Pentagon cannot account for hundreds of billions of dollars over the last several years. This kind of wasteful spending losing hundreds of billions of dollars really ought to be stopped as soon as possible.

 

[Merrill]

I've heard Americans often say, "America pays for EU defense." Can you explain how? If America withdraws from NATO, how would it save money? Your post lacks factual backing.

The US military defends Europe --the Bundeswehr in Germany is a small force without nukes, or any kind of navy. The Baltic states depend on us entirely for defense. Only France and the UK have legitimate militaries.

None of these countries were honoring their NATO defense spending commitments

I didn't say the US would necessarily save money if we pulled out of NATO (we still have China to deal with). What I said was Europe needs to start defending itself.

 

[RileyG]

This is absolutely not factual at all.

Amen, brother!

 

[RileyG]

The US has not pulled out of NATO, despite the hysterical reporting by the MSM. We still sell lots of arms to Europe, and are committed to that region. Trump has indicated that he wants a peace deal to end the Ukrainian conflict, and that he wants European countries to start paying for their own militaries

the days of the US paying for the defense of France, Germany, etc., so those countries can operate welfare states with universal healthcare, are over. There will be fairness going forward

and all this hand-wringing and crying about how hundreds of billions needs to be spent to defend Western Europe against Putin is a bunch of noise. Germany is not going to rebuild the Wehrmacht, and France isn't going to start marching a Grand Army through Europe. These countries do not have the funds or the soldiers.

and Putin has absolutely no intention of marching into any NATO state. He isn't crazy

Tired of all the fear mongering from the MSM.

Makes me sick!

 

[Richard T]

By this statement, you haven't researched how America pays for EU defense. Would we need a navy as big as ours if NATO helped the USA patrol the waters? How many NATO navies are helping against the Houthis? Overseas deployment also costs us huge amounts of money.

Why is there a short memory in politics? Because all this has been spun one way or the other on many threads.

US-led coalition of 10 nations to counter Houthi attacks on vessels in Red Sea​

US defense secretary Lloyd Austin announces Operation Prosperity Guardian, in cooperation with UK, Bahrain, Canada, France, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Seychelles and Spain. Source: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-le...counter-houthi-attacks-on-vessels-in-red-sea/​

There are lots of other allies across the world but it I guess it depends on who will show up when you need it most.

 

[Richard T]

When President Trump nominated Marco Rubio as Secretary of State, I was pleased and relieved. I believe Secretary Rubio's views on U.S. foreign policy align closely with mine.

I understand that Secretary Rubio is implementing President Trump's foreign policy, not his own.

I understand your concerns with my post. No, I am not suggesting the US is leaving NATO or withdrawing troops from Europe; I don't think that will ever happen. However, Europe will become self-reliant in defense, and as it becomes more independent, it will rely less on the US. Eventually, they may no longer be allies but adversaries. What concerns me is that many Americans do not fully understand the danger of the US finding Europe as an adversary instead of an ally.

There is a democratic peace theory that really is predictive. Democracies do not fight against each other. I think the US and EU will be fine as long as democracy hold up. If democracy fails, then war to restore it might be a preferable option.

 

[wing2000]

According to the politico article, Speaker Johnson is proposing a $6 billion dollars increase. According to my math, that is less than 1% increase in DoD spending from the previous budget for the DoD. Meanwhile, many Americans know that the Pentagon and the DoD has failed audits continously every year over the last several years, if not longer. The DoD and the Pentagon cannot account for hundreds of billions of dollars over the last several years. This kind of wasteful spending losing hundreds of billions of dollars really ought to be stopped as soon as possible.

I thought DOGE was "auditing" for 1 Trillion dollar in savings....seems like the DoD projects would be an easy target as opposed to firing thousands of VA employees...