The Secret Rapture and 7 year Tribulation is Not In The Bible

[Ivan Hlavanda]

So I appreciate you recognizing that it's not a nothing matter to allow deception if indeed you see something as a deception. If you're right, then you're trying to rescue the truth for the benefit of all. A so-called "peaceable" stand that tolerates anything and everything is obviously short-sighted and wrong. Thank you.

That being said, I am very careful for sin not to enter in my life, and sin not to enter my church. It can end in a disaster. I see what happened to unfaithful Israel, that's why I hate what is happening in so many churches today, because they allowed world into their congregation and it is sickening to hear cheap gospel and the lack of fear of God in so many churches. And I do get my blood boiled with false Christianity and blasphemous Christians. And I too overact so I must not be hypocritical. But telling Christians who believe something different that they are deceived by satan never ends well (unless ofc we disagree about gospel etc.)

I've been a Postribber in a Pretribulational environment for about 50 years now. And the more open I am about my Postrib beliefs, the more I appear to be side-lined or dismissed. It's really gotten so bad that I'm about to leave my church.

I am sorry to hear that. They shouldn't treat you unfairly. In my church by God's grace I not once been mistreated because of different view on eschatology, and I pray your congregation sees the error they are causing you. Although eschatology is important, it is not as important as gospel, or Christ. Even in our disagreement we must glorify God first. I am blessed with my brethren in my church, now I even banter them that 'they will get it one day' or when the preacher was preaching on 1 thess 4 I said 'do you want me to preach on this passage and explain the rapture'? we all had a good laugh

And my pastor respected me enough to invite me to his house so we can discuss our different views on this. I even asked him if I am ok to speak about rapture and millenium to others, as he has the authority, and the pastor said yes as long as I am being respectful.

Our pastor wants people to listen while he teaches. He wants "yes" people who ask questions that allow him to say what he believes.

well, that's not good

I pray to God to give you wisdom on what to do next, whether He will want you to stay where you are and change the heart in your church or open doors somewhere else.

 

[RandyPNW]

That being said, I am very careful for sin not to enter in my life, and sin not to enter my church. It can end in a disaster. I see what happened to unfaithful Israel, that's why I hate what is happening in so many churches today, because they allowed world into their congregation and it is sickening to hear cheap gospel and the lack of fear of God in so many churches. And I do get my blood boiled with false Christianity and blasphemous Christians. And I too overact so I must not be hypocritical. But telling Christians who believe something different that they are deceived by satan never ends well (unless ofc we disagree about gospel etc.)


I am sorry to hear that. They shouldn't treat you unfairly. In my church by God's grace I not once been mistreated because of different view on eschatology, and I pray your congregation sees the error they are causing you. Although eschatology is important, it is not as important as gospel, or Christ. Even in our disagreement we must glorify God first. I am blessed with my brethren in my church, now I even banter them that 'they will get it one day' or when the preacher was preaching on 1 thess 4 I said 'do you want me to preach on this passage and explain the rapture'? we all had a good laugh

And my pastor respected me enough to invite me to his house so we can discuss our different views on this. I even asked him if I am ok to speak about rapture and millenium to others, as he has the authority, and the pastor said yes as long as I am being respectful.


well, that's not good

I pray to God to give you wisdom on what to do next, whether He will want you to stay where you are and change the heart in your church or open doors somewhere else.

Nicely said. I think my biggest problem lies in the relationship between pastor and elder.

My wife and I are, by default, elders, holding no official position as such in the church. We are older than the pastor, and are more experienced as Christians than many in the church.

We are the longest-attending congregants in the church. And yet, we are not enabled to operate as elders. We are to sit in the pew and be dumb, doing menial tasks for the church, give tithes to the church, show up for work parties, and be counted among the small number present.

Our job is to certify once a year everything the pastor and his board has determined to do. I'm going to do a study on "elders," to find out more about what God would have me to do, rather than submit to someone who appears to be afraid of someone operating out of his suffocating control.

 

[setst777]

I was saved in 1971 and believed in the imminent pre-trib rapture for about 7, maybe 8 years. I just ran with the crowd on the subject and never really questioned or did any serious seeking on the subject. Dakes, Larkin, Scofield, etc. Basic DispensationaIism.
Then, around 1978 or so, I read the book "Christians Will Go Through the Tribulation" by Jim McKeever.

Amazon.com
I did a lot of other studies since. I see it. We will be here until the "Last Day."
As Paul said, "Let no man deceive you by any means..."
Now I know why he gave us this warning... there are a lot of deceived people out there.
No need to argue... the lines are drawn and I don't see a lot of people changing. Just realize that you believe this false doctrine at your peril.

You may be denied spiritual growth.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Murdock
1 Therefore let us leave the commencement of the word of the Messiah, and let us proceed to the completion. Or will ye again lay another foundation for the repentance which is from dead works, and for the faith in God,
2 and for the doctrine of baptism, and for the laying on of a hand, and for the resurrection from the dead, and for the eternal judgment?
3 We will do this, if the Lord permit.

If you do not have this doctrine of "resurrection of the dead" rightly divided... you may be denied permission to proceed on to the higher doctrines and experiences that accompany them.

I am not pre-tribulation either, and it actually never made sense to me. God did not appoint us to suffer his wrath:

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (KJV) 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

However, God did promise us suffering and tribulation, even though he may spare some from suffering.

Revelation 6:10-11 (KJV) 10 They cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, Master, the holy and true, until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 A long white robe was given to each of them. They were told that they should rest yet for a while, until their fellow servants and their brothers, who would also be killed even as they were, should complete their course.

Tribulation is a test for the saints of God, while God's wrath is upon everyone who rejects His salvation to follow darkness.

Romans 1:18 (KJV) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

John 3:36 (KJV) 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Therefore, I believe in the pre-wrath rapture of the Church, after which time God pours out his wrath upon mankind.

Blessings

 

[JulieB67]

But a year or so later, my brother convinced me to memorize Scriptures, and I soon realized I had a gift of memorization. I didn't take it too far, but I memorized, among other biblical letters, 2 Thessalonians. As I memorized this short letter I realized Paul was teaching something other than what I had been taught--he was explicitly teaching Postrib! From that time to this I've been staunchly Postrib.

I was a child growing up in the 70's and was brought up in a church/family that believed in a pretrib rapture. My father even had a Scofield bible. I accepted as many others had also that what I was being fed was truth. I didn't even know there were any other beliefs. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that someone planted a seed for me. And that's what got me into reading and studying the bible in it's entirety for the first time. Something I'm ashamed to say I hadn't done before. We should always study to show ourselves approved -rightly dividing the Word. But to your point it was when someone planted the seed for me that I read 2nd Thes and knew then immediately there was no pretrib rapture. My eyes were opened to the truth.

My father and I would go round and round about this (he has since passed on) issue. He would even state, do you think you're smarter than Pastor such and such? And it showed me how strong indoctrination can take hold of people and how much trust they put into mere men over God's Word.

As for the video I wish it had touched on the original subject starting with verse 13 in 1st Thes 4. People love to hold on to 1st Thes 4:16/17 as a pretrib rapture but totally miss out on the original subject which is where are their passed loved ones. Paul isn't teaching a pretrib rapture he's teaching them what happens to their passed away loved ones and afterwards tells them to comfort themselves with those words. The comfort is not about a pretrib rapture coming, it was about their loved ones that had passed on and for them not to worry.

 

[1Tonne]

I see that D Taylor used Matthew 24:40-44 as proof of a rapture. People who use these verses like this take them badly out of context. They need to correctly divide the Word of God by reading the verses around them.
They take a few scriptures and make a big theory out of them. This can lead people into false theologies. (For instance, some people simply read a few verses in the book of John and think that we do not need to repent of our sin.)

Matt 24:40-44 has nothing to do with the rapture.
I believe that to understand these verses we need to read the previous verses. This keeps it in context.
So, we need to take note of verses 15-22 to keep it in context.
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—[let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."

We can see that the beast and his minion army are advancing and that they have even made it to the Temple in Jerusalem. As they advance, they are killing the elect (the believers). Then in verses 16-18 it warns them to get away fast. If they don't, then they will be taken away to tribulation and killed. These people are not raptured out. They stay through the tribulation period and are told to flee. Do not look back. Flee fast for your life.

Then after these verses, we see Christ's return in Matt 24:29-31.
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

Next, we have verses 32-39 which are simply saying to be ready. You will be able to tell that Jesus is returning soon as we will know the signs. So, if you see the antichrist in the Temple, then you know that the time of Christ's return is imminent. But like in the days of Noah, people will not be ready. They will be eating and drinking and living life as they always have. But make sure you are ready.
These verses also say that the generation that sees these things start will also see them completed.
“32 Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Lastly, we have verses 40-41
"At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."
This is simply saying that as the beast's armies advance, there will be two people in a field, one will be left, but the believer will be taken to tribulation. Verse 18 even says that if you are in the field, don't waste time by going to get your cloak.
Two women will be grinding at the mill, one will be left, and the believer will be taken to tribulation. SO, FLEE. As it says in verses 16-18, flee. Be ready. Don't be taken to tribulation but know from the parable (verse 32) that we need to be ready to flee.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I see that D Taylor used Matthew 24:40-44 as proof of a rapture. People who use these verses like this take them badly out of context. They need to correctly divide the Word of God by reading the verses around them.
They take a few scriptures and make a big theory out of them. This can lead people into false theologies. (For instance, some people simply read a few verses in the book of John and think that we do not need to repent of our sin.)

Matt 24:40-44 has nothing to do with the rapture.
I believe that to understand these verses we need to read the previous verses. This keeps it in context.
So, we need to take note of verses 15-22 to keep it in context.
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place—[let the reader understand— 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house. 18 And whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 But woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 Moreover, pray that when you flee, it will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."

We can see that the beast and his minion army are advancing and that they have even made it to the Temple in Jerusalem. As they advance, they are killing the elect (the believers). Then in verses 16-18 it warns them to get away fast. If they don't, then they will be taken away to tribulation and killed. These people are not raptured out. They stay through the tribulation period and are told to flee. Do not look back. Flee fast for your life.

Then after these verses, we see Christ's return in Matt 24:29-31.
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other."

Next, we have verses 32-39 which are simply saying to be ready. You will be able to tell that Jesus is returning soon as we will know the signs. So, if you see the antichrist in the Temple, then you know that the time of Christ's return is imminent. But like in the days of Noah, people will not be ready. They will be eating and drinking and living life as they always have. But make sure you are ready.
These verses also say that the generation that sees these things start will also see them completed.
“32 Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Lastly, we have verses 40-41
"At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."
This is simply saying that as the beast's armies advance, there will be two people in a field, one will be left, but the believer will be taken to tribulation. Verse 18 even says that if you are in the field, don't waste time by going to get your cloak.
Two women will be grinding at the mill, one will be left, and the believer will be taken to tribulation. SO, FLEE. As it says in verses 16-18, flee. Be ready. Don't be taken to tribulation but know from the parable (verse 32) that we need to be ready to flee.

I have been sharing like thoughts for years and have concluded that the only way a person escapes from the pre-trib rapture illusion is to discover it on their own. That was the case with me. I believed in pretrib for the first 6 or 7 years of my walk. I was saved reading material like Late Great Planet Earth and books by Larkin and Dakes. (1971) I did not question it for years. As I read and studied, I saw holes in the concept. I have now been out of the pretrib camp for 45 years.
Lest someone suggest this teaching makes no difference. I disagree... it does matter. Paul tells us not to be deceived. Jesus said to take heed that no man deceives you. Part of their warnings revolve around the arrival and establishment of the antichrist and that we would see this happen! Yet the pretrib rapture assumes we will be gone at the time. Also, Paul warns in Heb 6:1-4 that if we fail to be proficient in these "milk" doctrines, we may not be allowed to proceed to mature, meat-eating doctrines. Among the milk doctrines is "resurrection of the dead." If you have this wrong, God may deny you to go on to the mature doctrines. Why? Because having the foundation wrong will skew the entire building. Everything you build on this error will also be an error: only multiplied. And this error may lead you to destruction. So it is important.

 

[1Tonne]

I have been sharing like thoughts for years and have concluded that the only way a person escapes from the pre-trib rapture illusion is to discover it on their own. That was the case with me. I believed in pretrib for the first 6 or 7 years of my walk. I was saved reading material like Late Great Planet Earth and books by Larkin and Dakes. (1971) I did not question it for years. As I read and studied, I saw holes in the concept. I have now been out of the pretrib camp for 45 years.
Lest someone suggest this teaching makes no difference. I disagree... it does matter. Paul tells us not to be deceived. Jesus said to take heed that no man deceives you. Part of their warnings revolve around the arrival and establishment of the antichrist and that we would see this happen! Yet the pretrib rapture assumes we will be gone at the time. Also, Paul warns in Heb 6:1-4 that if we fail to be proficient in these "milk" doctrines, we may not be allowed to proceed to mature, meat-eating doctrines. Among the milk doctrines is "resurrection of the dead." If you have this wrong, God may deny you to go on to the mature doctrines. Why? Because having the foundation wrong will skew the entire building. Everything you build on this error will also be an error: only multiplied. And this error may lead you to destruction. So it is important.

I used to believe in the rapture too.
The most common view with the people I know regarding the rapture seems to be that sometime either before or during the tribulation, the dead believers are raptured first and then those believers who are alive will also be raised straight away after. But Jesus did not believe this and nor did the disciples.
Jesus said regarding the dead believers:
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:39-40 Jesus stated He would raise the dead believers on the last day. Not before.

Then Martha also confirmed that the dead believers will be raised on the last day.
"Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise from the dead.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” John 11:23-24.

So, Jesus clearly taught that the dead believers will be raised on the Day of Judgement, which is the last day.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I used to believe in the rapture too.
The most common view with the people I know regarding the rapture seems to be that sometime either before or during the tribulation, the dead believers are raptured first and then those believers who are alive will also be raised straight away after. But Jesus did not believe this and nor did the disciples.
Jesus said regarding the dead believers:
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:39-40 Jesus stated He would raise the dead believers on the last day. Not before.

Then Martha also confirmed that the dead believers will be raised on the last day.
"Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise from the dead.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” John 11:23-24.

So, Jesus clearly taught that the dead believers will be raised on the Day of Judgement, which is the last day.

I like to say, "The FIRST resurrection will take place on the LAST day, AFTER the (greatest) Tribulation, at the LAST trumpet, AFTER the revealing of the antichrist, AFTER the great falling away."

 

[1Tonne]

I like to say, "The FIRST resurrection will take place on the LAST day, AFTER the (greatest) Tribulation, at the LAST trumpet, AFTER the revealing of the antichrist, AFTER the great falling away."

That is a possibility. But I believe that there will be a rapture, but it is not for every believer. It is only for those who died as martyrs for Christ, and they will reign with Him for 1000 years.
"4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." Rev 20:4-5

So, my personal understanding is, the antichrist goes forth persecuting the believers. Then, Christ destroys the antichrist by raising up and returning with the martyrs and He then reigns for 1000 years. After the 1000 years, Satan is set free and runs rampant for a time. Then at the end of time, God will destroy the final enemies with fire that comes down from heaven. Now, this is the last day, where the final resurrection happens of every person, believer and non-believer. Christ raises them up to meet with Him in the clouds, they are then judged, some go to everlasting life, and some to everlasting death.

The issue is that many believers who keep to the mass rapture theory do not understand what rapture means. In Greek, it is Harpazo". This means "caught up". And we see that there are two instances where people are "caught up" in eschatology. The first are the martyrs, and the second is for everyone that is left on the last day. So, in reality, there are two raptures.
Without this understanding, many people will mix up verses that belong to the second raising with the first raising and vice versa.

 

[Douggg]

Poorly researched video with a number of inaccuracies. Whoever put this together is not rightly dividing God's Word. (2 Timothy 2:15)

I agree that the video is full of inaccuracies, misunderstanding of the scriptures, and playing word games.

"Secret" rapture is not what resurrection/rapture believers use to describe their belief. What is unknown is what day and hour the event will take place. No-one know that day and hour except the Father. Matthew 24:36.

On the day that the Father decides, He will send Jesus to resurrect the dead in Christ (their bodies to reunite with their souls) and to translate the living in Christ in the twinkling of a eye (the rapture) and taken to heaven.

1Thessalonains4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

God the Father has the souls of dead Christians, now in heaven, come with Jesus to be reunited with with their resurrected eternal life bodies.... and taken to heaven along with the translated living in Christ.

 

[1Tonne]

I agree that the video is full of inaccuracies, misunderstanding of the scriptures, and playing word games.

"Secret" rapture is not what resurrection/rapture believers use to describe their belief. What is unknown is what day and hour the event will take place. No-one know that day and hour except the Father. Matthew 24:36.

On the day that the Father decides, He will send Jesus to resurrect the dead in Christ (their bodies to reunite with their souls) and to translate the living in Christ in the twinkling of a eye (the rapture) and taken to heaven.

1Thessalonains4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

God the Father has the souls of dead Christians, now in heaven, come with Jesus to be reunited with with their resurrected eternal life bodies.... and taken to heaven along with the translated living in Christ.

Jesus said regarding the dead believers:
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:39-40 Jesus stated He would raise the dead believers on the last day. Not before.

Then Martha also confirmed that the dead believers will be raised on the last day.
"Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise from the dead.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” John 11:23-24.

So, Jesus clearly taught that the dead believers will be raised on the Day of Judgement, which is the last day.
So, why do you think that Jesus and the disciples thought that the believers were raised on the last day?

 

[1Tonne]

The book of Daniel also teaches that on the last day, people are raised. Some who are written in the book of life will be saved and others will go to a place of everlasting shame and contempt. This aligns with what Jesus taught.
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt."

 

[Douggg]

So, Jesus clearly taught that the dead believers will be raised on the Day of Judgement, which is the last day

The last day event is in Revelation 20:11-15, when the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

Here are the three events involving the resurrection of the dead.

1. the resurrection/rapture event - before the great tribulation begins. Taken to heaven, to return with Jesus.
1Thessalonians4:14-18, 1Thessalonians5:9-11

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints - right after the great tribulation, and Jesus has returned.
Revelation 20:4-6

3. the resurrection of the last day - for the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:11-15

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I agree that the video is full of inaccuracies, misunderstanding of the scriptures, and playing word games.

"Secret" rapture is not what resurrection/rapture believers use to describe their belief. What is unknown is what day and hour the event will take place. No-one know that day and hour except the Father. Matthew 24:36.

On the day that the Father decides, He will send Jesus to resurrect the dead in Christ (their bodies to reunite with their souls) and to translate the living in Christ in the twinkling of a eye (the rapture) and taken to heaven.

1Thessalonains4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

God the Father has the souls of dead Christians, now in heaven, come with Jesus to be reunited with with their resurrected eternal life bodies.... and taken to heaven along with the translated living in Christ.

Nobody denies that the resurrection will take place. It is when. 1 Thess 4 says nothing about when.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The last day event is in Revelation 20:11-15, when the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

Here are the three events involving the resurrection of the dead.

1. the resurrection/rapture event - before the great tribulation begins. Taken to heaven, to return with Jesus.
1Thessalonians4:14-18, 1Thessalonians5:9-11

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints - right after the great tribulation, and Jesus has returned.
Revelation 20:4-6

3. the resurrection of the last day - for the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:11-15

So the resurrection mentioned in Rev 20 is actually the 3rd resurrection?

Revelation 20:5 LITV
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

 

[Douggg]

So the resurrection mentioned in Rev 20 is actually the 3rd resurrection?

Revelation 20:5 LITV
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

The term "first resurrection" in verse 5 means the first resurrection in regards to the millennium. The first resurrection applies to the martyred great tribulation saints.

The rest of the dead are not resurrected until after the millennium.

 

[1Tonne]

The last day event is in Revelation 20:11-15, when the Great White Throne Judgment takes place.

Correct. This is when Jesus says that the believers will rise. Not before.

Here are the three events involving the resurrection of the dead.

1. the resurrection/rapture event - before the great tribulation begins. Taken to heaven, to return with Jesus.
1Thessalonians4:14-18, 1Thessalonians5:9-11

The video that you did not agree with did have some things correct.
When Paul spoke these things, it was during a time where believers were being persecuted and killed. The people alive were wondering what would happen to those who died. And so, Paul consoled them by telling them that they will return with Christ. They are the "Dead in Christ" or "Those who have fallen asleep in Christ" as mentioned in 1 Thes 4:14-18. So, these are the martyrs as mentioned in Rev 20:4-6. It even says in verse 5 that no other believer is raised to life. So, Christ is the first fruits, then the martyrs (Who rule with Christ) and then, lastly, the remaining believers when He delivers the kingdom to God (A Kingdom is made up of people. These are the last believers to rise).
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power." 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 – The Resurrection Order

1 Thes 5:9-11 is simply saying that we are not under God's condemnation. Nothing about a rapture.

2. the resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints - right after the great tribulation, and Jesus has returned.
Revelation 20:4-6

You are correct in saying that this is right after the tribulation and that they are the martyrs. They are the "Dead in Christ" and the ones who have "Fallen asleep" as is 1 Thes 4. NOTE: It says that no other believer is raised.

3. the resurrection of the last day - for the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:11-15

Correct. This is when Jesus says that believers will rise in John 6:39-40. The disciples also believed that believers are raised on the last day as seen in John 11:23-24. Lastly, in Daniel 12:1-2 it says that this is when believers rise, on the last day when the "books are opened".
This is not just speculative evidence. This is solid.

So, your question you need to ask is, "Who are the dead in Christ" or "those who have fallen asleep?"

 

[Douggg]

1 Thes 5:9-11 is simply saying that we are not under God's condemnation. Nothing about a rapture.

1Thessalonians5:9-11 is a referral back to the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the living in Christ raptured, just a few verses earlier in 1Thesslaonians4:16-18.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The comfort is that believers in Christ will not have to go through the time when God's wrath is poured out - during the great tribulation.

 

[1Tonne]

The comfort is that believers in Christ will not have to go through the time when God's wrath is poured out - during the great tribulation.

I would much rather go through the tribulation than have to face God's condemnation. I take comfort in the fact that one day, when I die, I have an advocate to the Father who gave His life for me. This is the comfort it is speaking about. Not being taken to tribulation by man. Many believers have already been taken by evil men and tortured for their faith. God did not rapture them out.
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt 10:28

Your issue is that you conflate the returning of Jesus to reign for 1000 years with the martyrs, with Jesus meeting us in the air on the last day.
The Dead in Christ returned first and reigned for 1000 years, then satan will be set free, and then at the end, on the last day, we meet with the Lord in the air to go to everlasting life.

Why did Jesus, Daniel and the disciples all think that we would be raised on the last day and not before?

 

[Douggg]

I would much rather go through the tribulation than have to face God's condemnation. I take comfort in the fact that one day, when I die, I have an advocate to the Father who gave His life for me. This is the comfort it is speaking about.

No, the comfort is ...

1. about being resurrected/raptured into eternal everlasting bodies
2. and taken to heaven, not having to go through the great tribulation when God's wrath will be poured out.

Why did Jesus, Daniel and the disciples all think that we would be raised on the last day and not before?

The passages you are referring to, speak of a general resurrection. That general resurrection will be for the Great White Throne judgment.