Here is the Full List of Presidential Actions Trump Signed on Day One

[NxNW]

None.

That's funny; Trump told the Supreme Court they were all violent criminals. Was he lying?

 

[NxNW]

With Biden gone, we no longer are obligated to feel ashamed of being White, or Christian, or American.

Nobody said you have to be.

 

[Vambram]

That's funny; Trump told the Supreme Court they were all violent criminals. Was he lying?

I believe that you have confused yourself with a few different events.

 

[NxNW]

Christianity and Western civilization should be celebrated an applauded for bringing Christ and redemption to the world, for ceasing the human sacrifice, ending the slave trade, and so many other horrors.

Well, Christianity & Western civilization were also, to a large extent, responsible for promoting slavery before Lincoln ended it. 'Huck Finn' memorializes how people were taught that helping a slave escape would result in damnation. The climactic moment of the book is when Huck decides he'll do it anyway.

It is the most important work of fiction ever written by an American.

Today, the Broadway show 'Book of Mormon' makes a point of focusing on racist passages in that book. Like Twain, it's done in a comedic manner, but carries a serious and cautionary message.

 

[linux.poet]

Well then. I guess killing them and taking their land was not problematic since they did not have a codified set of laws.

I think the reason that the Europeans justified taking over the native peoples was because they weren't Christian or "ruled by a Christian prince":

Source:

https://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1405-02182021000100002#:~:text=The%20Spanish%20conquest%20of%20the%20Americas%20was%20authorized%20by%20the,Azores%20and%20Cape%20Verde%20islands.

I'd also refer to The Indigenous People's History of the United States, which also refers to the "First right of conquest" aka the religious reason for the European claims. It gets complicated because the English government didn't follow Catholicism and the Puritans didn't even follow the Anglicans, but it's all the same legitimacy coupled with greed for land and gold.

 

[lifepsyop]

I think the reason that the Europeans justified taking over the native peoples was because they weren't Christian or "ruled by a Christian prince":

That's a pretty good justification actually.

America has been rejecting Christian order for only a couple generations and almost ended up drowning in its own degeneracy.

I can only imagine how much worse it was with pagans who never had Christian order to begin with. I heard that human sacrifice was popular.

 

[linux.poet]

I heard that human sacrifice was popular.

That's among the Aztec civilizations in Mexico. As far as I know from my limited studies of Native American civilization, it wasn't a common practice in North America.

 

[lifepsyop]

That's among the Aztec civilizations in Mexico. As far as I know from my limited studies of Native American civilization, it wasn't a common practice in North America.

From my understanding, many North American Indian tribes regularly committed genocide, slavery, rape, torture against each other.

 

[linux.poet]

From my understanding, many North American Indian tribes regularly committed genocide, slavery, rape, torture against each other.

Do you have a source or sources for this information?

I'm willing to concede that The Indigenous People's History of the United States (and the state University class that used it as a textbook) may have been biased toward the Native American perspective, but I need some actual sources in order to discredit an entire book.

 

[lifepsyop]

Do you have a source or sources for this information?

I'm willing to concede that The Indigenous People's History of the United States (and the state University class that used it as a textbook) may have been biased toward the Native American perspective, but I need some actual sources in order to discredit an entire book.

well here's one source

North American Indigenous Warfare and Ritual Violence | UAPress

uapress.arizona.edu

but can you explain why your skeptical of such a claim in the first place? why wouldn't you expect regular mass violence among different tribes of pagans?

 

[linux.poet]

but can you explain why your skeptical of such a claim in the first place? why wouldn't you expect regular mass violence among different tribes of pagans?

The warfare aspect has been well documented, but you were claiming genocide, slavery, rape, and torture. That is not something I've heard before and I've been in the American public school system for 18 years which included a lot of history classes of the U.S., studied American literature in college, and you know, I live in the United States. Again, there are claims of bias for the school system, but I'd think that the literature would refer to said genocide, slavery, rape, and torture somewhere.

Obviously, if you have tribes of pagan nations living next to each other, there will be times of peace and times of war between them. Even Europe had times of peace and war.

I'll have a look at that book if I can get my hands on a copy. Seems interesting.

 

[rjs330]

Go tell India they are better off for having been "civilized" by the British empire, see if they agree.

While you are at it check in with the native Americans, the native Hawaiians, every group that has been exploited by colonization to the detriment of the original inhabitants.

Look, I'm not claiming that western culture has not made some true advancements to the betterment of human kind, but don't try to pitch me a bunch of bunk that manifest destiny was for the betterment of those who were subjugated. It was only for the enrichment of those who did the subjugation and the fallout from that is still in evidence in those communities affected. A friend of my wife is an American Indian pastor who is trying to battle the ongoing poverty and despair that is a regular feature on reservations across the country.

You pretty much ignored everything I said. As long as you do that there's no sense in discussing it anymore.

 

[rjs330]

Well, Christianity & Western civilization were also, to a large extent, responsible for promoting slavery before Lincoln ended it.

Slavery existed long before that.

 

[Belk]

You pretty much ignored everything I said. As long as you do that there's no sense in discussing it anymore.

I do not believe I have ignored your points. You claimed that manifest destiny lead to the betterment of all mankind and that I was judging them by today's standards. Was there another point that I missed?

 

[rjs330]

It gets complicated because the English government didn't follow Catholicism and the Puritans didn't even follow the Anglicans, but it's all the same legitimacy coupled with greed for land and gold.

Kind of the way the whole world operated since the beginning of mankind. All conquering, murdering, war, slavery etc etc. Yet somehow the Us gets blamed and Christianity gets blamed, when this was the way of the world long before the US or Christianity existed. But no one wants to talk about that or how Christianty was part of why slavery ended in the US.

Can we please quit judging all that happened by our standards of today? It's folly.

 

[rjs330]

A friend of my wife is an American Indian pastor who is trying to battle the ongoing poverty and despair that is a regular feature on reservations across the country.

Nothing is keeping them there. That ended a long time ago.

Doesn't it get old blaming the evil white man for every evil in the world?

Yes the great Manifest Destiny has been good for the world. The world today would be worse off without it. Stop judging the world of the past by your modern morality. I don't see you using that morality to judge how the Natives treated each other. Or how the Africans and Muslims treated their fellow men. Nope it's only the white guys that matter.

 

[lifepsyop]

The warfare aspect has been well documented, but you were claiming genocide, slavery, rape, and torture. That is not something I've heard before and I've been in the American public school system for 18 years which included a lot of history classes of the U.S., studied American literature in college, and you know, I live in the United States. Again, there are claims of bias for the school system, but I'd think that the literature would refer to said genocide, slavery, rape, and torture somewhere.

again I wonder why you are skeptical about this... this was normal behavior for pagans all over the world.

even the highly intellectually advanced greco-roman pagans were extremely brutal to outsider human groups

Obviously, if you have tribes of pagan nations living next to each other, there will be times of peace and times of war between them. Even Europe had times of peace and war.

yea, there will be peace when it's beneficial to have peace, but generally pagans did not have anywhere near the restraint on violence that Christian Europe did.

It was the evil white Christian men who first began to recognize that even savage outsiders were God's children and deserving of some measure of dignity. That was the basis of Christian civilization.

Granted they still committed their own atrocities, but overall it was far more restrained than what you would have witnessed with pagans dealing with each other and outsiders.

(The worst violence we see from white people begins in the 20th century when they begin mass-slaughtering each other over modern ideology, and still today we have plenty of westerners who are ready to bomb the entire world in order to spread 'globo-homo' liberalism and democracy.)

 

[Nithavela]

Why are you guys talking about the merits and demerits of "white people" in a thread about trumps presidential actions?

 

[NxNW]

Slavery existed long before that.

Nobody is claiming otherwise.

 

[NxNW]

no one wants to talk about that or how Christianty was part of why slavery ended in the US.

It wasn't.