Biases

[Eternally Grateful]

What you said here is true, what you said about scripture being GOD is untrue.

We must have The Holy Spirit inside of us to correctly understand scriptural truth. Scripture is not self evident, hence why atheists can read it and be completely wrong. Hence also, why you see a lot of people on this site speak wrongful things using scripture, they do not have The Holy Spirit inside of them,.... no matter how much they say they do.

If this was true no one could be saved.

But yes, I agree for the most part.

It’s why it is great to have leaders. But never blindly follow theM

and if they tell you to follow them only. Then you need to run because no one would say this if what they say lined up with the word of God. They would not have to.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where did I say that? From what statement are you extrapolating that thought from>

He seems to think that since I believe the written word, inspired By God himself. Which central message is the message of the second person of the trinity. (Which it is) and in essence. When you read the word, your reading about him.. well you get the point

 

[Always in His Presence]

The problem is we should be focused on the inspired word. Not som creed written by men (not inspired)

some people seem to hold creeds of men higher than the word (its funny as the jews did the same thing. Christ fought this when he walked the earth)

The Nicene Creed is a quotation of Scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Nicene Creed is a quotation of Scripture.

Should it be held above scripture?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Nicene Creed is a quotation of Scripture.

I just read it again.

there are two lines in te creed. That knowing the people who push it as important. Does not really follow the word of God

the part about baptism.

and the part about there is one church (catholic)

while I agree. There is one baptism that saved, it is not water baptism or sprinkling (as the catholics do it)

and while I agree there is one body, and all were spiritually baptized into the body by God himself. It is not the Catholic Church.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Nicene Creed is a quotation of Scripture.

We are of one accord.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Should it be held above scripture?

Should Scripture be held above Scripture?

I just read it again.

there are two lines in te creed. That knowing the people who push it as important. Does not really follow the word of God

the part about baptism.

and the part about there is one church (catholic)

Catholic means universal - it's there in the post - it is NOT referring to the Roman Catholic Church.

while I agree. There is one baptism that saved, it is not water baptism or sprinkling (as the catholics do it)

and while I agree there is one body, and all were spiritually baptized into the body by God himself. It is not the Catholic Church.

Then you need to address your concerns with the Forum Advisors - because to post here you have to be in agreement with the Creed.

There are forums reserved for Christian members only. Please do not post in these forums unless you are truly a Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). Unorthodox, non-Nicene Christian theology may only be discussed in the Controversial Theology forum.​

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[Eternally Grateful]

Should Scripture be held above Scripture?

Catholic means universal - it's there in the post - it is NOT referring to the Roman Catholic Church.

Then you need to address your concerns with the Forum Advisors - because to post here you have to be in agreement with the Creed.

There are forums reserved for Christian members only. Please do not post in these forums unless you are truly a Christian (please see our Statement of Faith to know exactly what that is). Unorthodox, non-Nicene Christian theology may only be discussed in the Controversial Theology forum.​

​

Terms and rules

You must agree to these terms and rules before using the site.

www.christianforums.com

I am a Christian and have been for 40 years

Water baptism does not make one saved I said there is one baptism. So I am not disagreeing with the creed but how some interpret it

There is one body. According to the word. The only people I hear use the creed in this way are Catholics. I do not hear Lutherans or other churches us it in that way. That was my point

So again I am not saying I disagree the the words but how some translate it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The above quote proved my point. Agreeing with a creed does not make me a Christian. We should stick to the word of god

 

[Always in His Presence]

I am a Christian and have been for 40 years

Congratulations - so have many of us.

Water baptism does not make one saved I said there is one baptism. So I am not disagreeing with the creed but how some interpret it

Then open a thread on it - no one here is saying anything of the like.

There is one body. According to the word. The only people I hear use the creed in this way are Catholics. I do not hear Lutherans or other churches us it in that way. That was my point

Again - open a thread on the subject - but understand there is a variety of approaches to Scripture here - We have to be able to learn from one another without getting rude or personal -

Like calling someone an idol worshipper

So again I am not saying I disagree the the words but how some translate it

When they do so - then explain your position - no one is doing so at this point.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Lol

The bible is the spoken word..

When it is read out loud, such as in the Liturgy of the Word. Then yes, and as Word it is a precious Means of Grace through which God works to give, create, and strengthen our faith, which He does by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is also a powerful and indispensable means by which God's Law, His righteous commandments, are declared in order to justly condemn sin, that through the preaching of the Law sinners should tremble at the severity of their sin in order that they should be brought to grief over their sin--that through the Gospel they might be granted faith to their hearts, and find peace with the God who meets them in Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, who freely justifies them by His grace and restores them to Himself, adopting them as children.

As St. Paul reminds us, all Scripture is good and useful, to correct, rebuke, to instruct in righteousness, for that is the pastor's vocation as minister of God's Word and Sacraments (2 Timothy 3:16-17), the sacred Office of the Keys which Christ gave His Church (Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23) in order that the Church fulfill her great commission (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38-39); for through the Gospel comes faith (Romans 10:17) for all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:13).

The Bible is not, however, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible is not the Incarnate God-Man; the Bible is not the Eternal Word and Son of the Father. The Father did not beget the Bible, but He has, from all eternity, begotten His Son and Word, our Lord Jesus Christ, the True Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. To Whom belongs all glory, power, rule, and authority, now and forever, even unto the ages of the ages.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Should it be held above scripture?

Nobody, literally nobody, considers the Creed to be above Scripture. The Nicene Creed continues, nevertheless, to be the central unifying confession of Christian faith for all Christians; it is true. It is not above Scripture; Scripture rules above the Creed; for Scripture is God's precious word (not the Divine Word, Jesus; but God's inspired word, written by men by the power and work of the Holy Spirit).

It is impossible to reject the Creed and embrace Scripture; for the Creed affirms Scripture; and to reject the Creed is to reject what is revealed and given to us in Scripture. Namely that there is one God and Father who made all things, seen and unseen; and one Lord Jesus Christ His only-begotten Son who is of the Father's own Being, truly God, begotten not made, from all eternity, who became flesh, human, by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified dead and buried, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, reigns at the right hand of the Father, will come again to judge, whose kingdom is everlasting; the Holy Spirit is true Lord and God, to be adored as such; our faith in Christ's one Church, in His precious gift of new life, in the promise of resurrection from the dead, and eternal life when God makes all things new. To deny any of these things is to deny Scripture, the truth of Scripture, to deny the Gospel, and to deny Jesus Christ: living, incarnate, crucified, risen, ascended, enthroned in glory, and coming again.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Congratulations - so have many of us.

Then open a thread on it - no one here is saying anything of the like.

Again - open a thread on the subject - but understand there is a variety of approaches to Scripture here - We have to be able to learn from one another without getting rude or personal -

Like calling someone an idol worshipper

When they do so - then explain your position - no one is doing so at this point.

We are talking about scriptures someone mentioned a niceness creed/ s i am responding on that.

Why would I open a thread on it. There are thousands of threads on it already. I am not talking about those things, I am talking about 2 parts of a creed people say is equal to the Bible and parts I have seen misused.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When it is read out loud, such as in the Liturgy of the Word. Then yes, and as Word it is a precious Means of Grace through which God works to give, create, and strengthen our faith, which He does by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is also a powerful and indispensable means by which God's Law, His righteous commandments, are declared in order to justly condemn sin, that through the preaching of the Law sinners should tremble at the severity of their sin in order that they should be brought to grief over their sin--that through the Gospel they might be granted faith to their hearts, and find peace with the God who meets them in Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, who freely justifies them by His grace and restores them to Himself, adopting them as children.

As St. Paul reminds us, all Scripture is good and useful, to correct, rebuke, to instruct in righteousness, for that is the pastor's vocation as minister of God's Word and Sacraments (2 Timothy 3:16-17), the sacred Office of the Keys which Christ gave His Church (Matthew 16:19, Matthew 18:18, John 20:21-23) in order that the Church fulfill her great commission (Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38-39); for through the Gospel comes faith (Romans 10:17) for all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10:13).

The Bible is not, however, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible is not the Incarnate God-Man; the Bible is not the Eternal Word and Son of the Father. The Father did not beget the Bible, but He has, from all eternity, begotten His Son and Word, our Lord Jesus Christ, the True Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. To Whom belongs all glory, power, rule, and authority, now and forever, even unto the ages of the ages.

-CryptoLutheran

lol. I study the word. I do not have to just read it out loud.

do you read letters sent to you out loud?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nobody, literally nobody, considers the Creed to be above Scripture. The Nicene Creed continues, nevertheless, to be the central unifying confession of Christian faith for all Christians; it is true. It is not above Scripture; Scripture rules above the Creed; for Scripture is God's precious word (not the Divine Word, Jesus; but God's inspired word, written by men by the power and work of the Holy Spirit).

It is impossible to reject the Creed and embrace Scripture; for the Creed affirms Scripture; and to reject the Creed is to reject what is revealed and given to us in Scripture. Namely that there is one God and Father who made all things, seen and unseen; and one Lord Jesus Christ His only-begotten Son who is of the Father's own Being, truly God, begotten not made, from all eternity, who became flesh, human, by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified dead and buried, rose on the third day, ascended into heaven, reigns at the right hand of the Father, will come again to judge, whose kingdom is everlasting; the Holy Spirit is true Lord and God, to be adored as such; our faith in Christ's one Church, in His precious gift of new life, in the promise of resurrection from the dead, and eternal life when God makes all things new. To deny any of these things is to deny Scripture, the truth of Scripture, to deny the Gospel, and to deny Jesus Christ: living, incarnate, crucified, risen, ascended, enthroned in glory, and coming again.

-CryptoLutheran

Lol

Scripture is the central unifying thing we should all be looking at. Not some creed. Not men and not Men.

 

[The Liturgist]

Congratulations - so have many of us.

Then open a thread on it - no one here is saying anything of the like.

Again - open a thread on the subject - but understand there is a variety of approaches to Scripture here - We have to be able to learn from one another without getting rude or personal -

Like calling someone an idol worshipper

When they do so - then explain your position - no one is doing so at this point.

Indeed, these are good points.

Additionally, I would note that regarding creeds, most Lutheran and all Anglican churches (the two largest Protestant denominations) recite the Nicene Creed or the Apostles’ Creed or the Athanasian Creed at all services, as well as many other Protestant churches including Methodist, Reformed, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, and other churches. The only ones I know of which definitely do not are those of the Stone/Campbell movement like the Churches of Christ and the Disciples of Christ (but theologically they still agree with it and the main seminary of the Churches of Christ, Pepperdine, which is very near the wildfires and should be in our prayers, trains its clergy very well in the Nicene faith. I have a good friend who is a pastor of a local Churches of Christ congregation. Likewise John Wesley wanted all Methodist parishes to use the Apostle’s Creed in worship, and this was the norm until the 1970s and the deletion of the creed was actually the result of a movement of liberal theology.

Indeed in the 2000s the late Episcopal Priest Fr. Boucher of the Diocese of Orange County, who was very liberal even by Episcopalian standards, put forward an argument that the creeds should be deleted from the Anglican liturgy (the Book of Common Prayer) on the grounds that they were exclusionary and disrupted the flow of the liturgy, and then in support of his argument quoted an apocryphal work of Gnostic psuedepigrapha, the so-called Gospel of Mary!*

*the work in question is attributed to St. Mary Magdalene and not the Theotokos; unlike the apocryphal Gospel of Philip it does not if I recall very obviously suggest some sort of romantic relationship between our Lord and St. Mary Magdalene; the quote in question ironically is also found with similar wording in the canonical New Testament, and so the fact that Fr. Boucher quoted it from a work of apocryphal Gnostic psuedepigrapha rather than from the canonical New Testament makes it even worse. A friend of mine, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Baton Rouge, wrote a blog post condemning the incident, which caused chagrin to many of my friends in the area, because at the time I was a member of the Episcopal church.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Should it be held above scripture?

Level with Scripture, since it is indeed Scripture.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Lol

Scripture is the central unifying thing we should all be looking at. Not some creed. Not men and not Men.

I doubt you know what a creed is, or what it is for. It is a summary of Biblical truths that we confess together as a symbol of unity.

 

[The Liturgist]

I doubt you know what a creed is, or what it is for. It is a summary of Biblical truths that we confess together as a symbol of unity.

Indeed. Furthermore the Nicene Creed can be regarded as inspired, since it was formulated by the 318 Holy Fathers at Nicaea in 321 and the 150 Holy Fathers at Constantinople in 381 in response to Arianism, which denied the doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation and instead claimed Jesus Christ was a created being, inferior to the Father, not God but only the Son of God, in contradiction to the Scriptural text. And later in the fourth century, the Pneumatomachs tried to claim the Holy Spirit was not God or a person of the Holy Trinity, in furtherance of Arianism (although some may have been Binitarian, but I don’t really care, it’s an obviously flawed theology). This was rectified at the Council of Constantinople.

Since the Fathers at Nicaea and Constantinople upheld the clear meaning of Inspired Scripture as it had always been understood since the time of the Apostles, we can regard them as divinely inspired.

And insofar as the Creeds quote Scripture they can be regarded as Scriptural.

In the Orthodox Church we don’t just read the Nicene Creed but sing it, like the rest of Scripture, which I believe was meant to be sung, something the Jews still do. I am particularly saddened by how rarely people sing the Psalms these days; in those liturgical churches which haven’t been taken over by praise and worship music, the singing or chanting of the Psalms has been replaced by the dull practice of responsive reading of the Psalms, which sounds so dreary. I really dislike the versicle-and-response style of prayer that is so common in many mainline Protestant liturgies these days; it did not historically exist, and the people tend to sound so … uninspired … when reading it, in contrast to the joy that is evident when they sing the hymns.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Indeed, these are good points.

Additionally, I would note that regarding creeds, most Lutheran and all Anglican churches (the two largest Protestant denominations) recite the Nicene Creed or the Apostles’ Creed or the Athanasian Creed at all services, as well as many other Protestant churches including Methodist, Reformed, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, and other churches. The only ones I know of which definitely do not are those of the Stone/Campbell movement like the Churches of Christ and the Disciples of Christ (but theologically they still agree with it and the main seminary of the Churches of Christ, Pepperdine, which is very near the wildfires and should be in our prayers, trains its clergy very well in the Nicene faith. I have a good friend who is a pastor of a local Churches of Christ congregation. Likewise John Wesley wanted all Methodist parishes to use the Apostle’s Creed in worship, and this was the norm until the 1970s and the deletion of the creed was actually the result of a movement of liberal theology.

Indeed in the 2000s the late Episcopal Priest Fr. Boucher of the Diocese of Orange County, who was very liberal even by Episcopalian standards, put forward an argument that the creeds should be deleted from the Anglican liturgy (the Book of Common Prayer) on the grounds that they were exclusionary and disrupted the flow of the liturgy, and then in support of his argument quoted an apocryphal work of Gnostic psuedepigrapha, the so-called Gospel of Mary!*

*the work in question is attributed to St. Mary Magdalene and not the Theotokos; unlike the apocryphal Gospel of Philip it does not if I recall very obviously suggest some sort of romantic relationship between our Lord and St. Mary Magdalene; the quote in question ironically is also found with similar wording in the canonical New Testament, and so the fact that Fr. Boucher quoted it from a work of apocryphal Gnostic psuedepigrapha rather than from the canonical New Testament makes it even worse. A friend of mine, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Baton Rouge, wrote a blog post condemning the incident, which caused chagrin to many of my friends in the area, because at the time I was a member of the Episcopal church.

Let's not forget what Luther once called "The 4th Creed"; the Te deum Laudamus. I like the way some Catholic Churches use it to conclude the Mass as it speaks to transcendence of heaven, earth, time and space with the Mass being an extension of the perpetual heavenly worship. What I like almost as much is the fact that they are using a Lutheran setting that is a versification of the Latin; some might say that this is "too Catholic"; I would say to not do this when one could is too "Baptist", enjoy...: