Hallo
i attend a conservative Pentecostal church and last sunday didn`t we have any services.
So i went to another service at a Pentecostal church with a female preacher.
What are you opinions on this for and against?
Timothy chapter 2 verses 11-12 says
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness.
12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
Happy new year to all God bless
Women have preached since apostolic times, and the history of the Christian Church provides examples of women teaching and preaching.
This isn't, however, the same thing as women being ordained as pastors. There isn't any evidence, biblically or historically, that women have ever been ordained.
So intrinsic to questions like this involves several things:
What is the particular beliefs one has about ordination and the pastoral office?
Is there any distinction of any kind between clergy and laity?
As it relates to 1 Timothy 2:11-12, what is the context and how does this fit into the larger Pauline corpus of thought? After all, St. Paul elsewhere speaks highly of women involved in ministerial work, we have examples of women engaged in apostolic and teaching work in the New Testament, such as Paul's mention of the Apostles Andronicus and
Junia. We have in the Acts of the Apostles mention of a married couple, Priscilla and Aquilla acting as teachers to Apollos. In his first epistle to the Corinthians St. Paul speaks of women being active in praying and prophesying/preaching in the church.
So unless Paul is contradicting himself, there is clearly something different going on in the passage in 1 Timothy 2 than elsewhere where he lauds women, works with women, and recognizes women for being active in various ministerial capacities. An examination of the passage reveals that the word used which sometimes gets translated as "to have authority over" has a more specific meaning; which is why some translations (like the KJV) uses the word "to usurp", and others translate it as "to control" or "to dominate". The specific Greek word Paul uses here is a hapax legomenon, or an isolated word--it appears no where else in the New Testament. Outside of the New Testament it is used to speak of people who acting on their own accord commit murder, or it refers to those who act as autocrats. In fact William Tyndale translates this word as "to have autocracy". The word means to act, in an autocratic manner, by one's own authority; thus one is not acting or doing something by valid authority but by one's own authority, with the undertone of this being violent or violating--imposing one's will over and against another by force.
This suggests that the issue in 1 Timothy 2 isn't women having authority of any kind (even over men); but acting of their own accord outside of the ordinary means of authority in the church. And that's what sets them apart from, for example, the women elsewhere in the New Testament who clearly have varying levels of authority (including over men), who can teach, preach, and engage in ministerial work but who are praised as "fellow laborers". It's not about being a man or a woman, it's about the problem of disorder in the church.
Now while that clears some things up about the meaning of 2 Timothy 2; it doesn't address whether women can or should be ordained to the pastorate. That's a much bigger question, and involves those aforementioned questions I asked: What is the nature of the pastorate, and is there a distinction between clergy and laity?
For example I would argue that there is a difference between a lay-preacher and a pastor. Anyone can preach, but not anyone can be a pastor. To be a pastor involves being ordained, and ordination is serious--it is vesting in someone significant responsibility and authority by the Church, to be shepherd over Christ's flock. Which is why in Paul's Pastoral Epistles he is very strict about who can be ordained, the vetting process is serious. But that's not true about someone who preaches, anyone can preach a sermon, anyone can proclaim the Gospel, anyone give a homily about Scripture (now, not everyone
should, but anyone
can). So while all pastors are preachers, not all preachers are pastors.
In none of this have I said whether women can/should be pastors one way or another. Rather I'm trying to parse different ideas. In my opinion (and that's all it is), I have never encountered an argument which would indicate that a woman
cannot be ordained. While female ordination is unknown until modern times; I simply cannot find a biblical command against it. There is no biblical prescription forbidding women from ordination. Further, ordination is an ecclesiastical act (as a Lutheran I do not embrace sacerdotalism) and is primarily about how the Church preserves and maintains the Sacred and Divine Office of the Keys. Are only men permitted to exercise the Office of the Keys? I do not see anywhere in Scripture that states this. Though it is a matter of indisputable historic record that only men have ever been ordained since apostolic and ancient times. Is historical precedent, in this case, prescriptive or descriptive? I am uncomfortable with relying on cultural norms (including cultural gender norms) to be used as a prescriptive or treated as having the same weight as God's Law and Command.
But, as I said, this is my opinion. I do not claim to speak on behalf of the Lutheran tradition, or any Lutheran church by providing my opinion. My own Lutheran synod (TAALC) does not ordain women, but does include women in lay leadership positions. My previous synod (ELCA) does ordain women. The reason why I am no longer ELCA is somewhat complicated, even if I do happen to agree with the ELCA on certain issues, and disagree with TAALC on a couple issues. The TL;DR version of that is it comes down to Confessionalism.
-CryptoLutheran
