Respectful Question on Doctrinal Development

[AveChristusRex]

put another way, in his book That They All Shall be Saved, he says that the God of the OT is not the Father of Christ, but actually a pagan storm god. that means he fundamentally disagrees with every Ecumenical Council since Constantinople I.

Nestorians aren’t even that bad.

In regards to Orthodox-Catholic relations, he is highly looked upon for his thesis Myth of Schism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The point was that he is able to preach his theology and is still in the confines of the Orthodox Church; in fact in 2017, Hart served on a special commission of Orthodox theologians for Patriarch Bartholomew to help compose "For the Life of the World: Toward a Social Ethos of the Orthodox Church" and to coauthor the preface. Along with that, in February 2022, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (in collaboration with the Orthodox Christian Studies Center of Fordham University) invited Hart to deliver a public homily. Not only that but your own OCA Archbishop Alexander Golitzin recorded a public interview on January 14, 2022, in which he named Hart's book That All Shall Be Saved and said that it "draws upon some very prominent and worthy and holy teachers" in the early church who held that the "love of God will ultimately overcome the capacity of the creature to say no to God."

Vladyka Alexander has also pointed out errors he made on a recent symposium on universal salvation.

still, so what?

 

[ArmyMatt]

In regards to Orthodox-Catholic relations, he is highly looked upon for his thesis Myth of Schism.

and within Orthodoxy, he isn’t taken seriously. put it as another seminary professor said, “Hart is nothing more than a universalist Marxist with a philosophy degree and a thesaurus.”

 

[AveChristusRex]

Vladyka Alexander has also pointed out errors he made on a recent symposium on universal salvation.

still, so what?

and within Orthodoxy, he isn’t taken seriously. put it as another seminary professor said, “Hart is nothing more than a universalist Marxist with a philosophy degree and a thesaurus.”

He is able to take communion...?

 

[ArmyMatt]

He is able to take communion...?

last I heard he doesn’t.

but even if he did, so what? even after Nicaea there were still Arians, Semi-Arians, and the Orthodox communing together. that doesn’t validate Arianism.

 

[AveChristusRex]

last I heard he doesn’t.

but even if he did, so what? even after Nicaea there were still Arians, Semi-Arians, and the Orthodox communing together. that doesn’t validate Arianism.

No, but to my knowledge, they have not restricted the chalice to Hart.

 

[ArmyMatt]

No, but to my knowledge, they have not restricted the chalice to Hart.

right, so just because he communes (if he does), that’s not some gotcha by pointing him out. our saints say Rome is heretical. that means more than academics.

 

[AveChristusRex]

right, so just because he communes (if he does), that’s not some gotcha by pointing him out. our saints say Rome is heretical. that means more than academics.

No, but it gives wiggle room I think, at least within "world orthodoxy"

 

[ArmyMatt]

No, but it gives wiggle room I think, at least within "world orthodoxy"

no it doesn’t. it’s already been addressed. we have services that call Rome heretics. Rome is called heretical when they are received into the Church. there is no wiggle room.

 

[AveChristusRex]

no it doesn’t. it’s already been addressed. we have services that call Rome heretics. Rome is called heretical when they are received into the Church. there is no wiggle room.

In Russian Orthodoxy, but not Greek to my knowledge?

 

[ArmyMatt]

In Russian Orthodoxy, but not Greek to my knowledge?

all Three Pillars of Orthodoxy who stood against Roman heresy were Greek. plus the new saints of Athos who are Greek.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Take me for example, I was Chrismated into Orthodoxy, and still go to an Orthodox Church, but I confess the Roman faith though cannot convert because it is impossible. Therefore I am not in communion with Rome or its Pontiff. As an individual who recognizes the Orthodox Church as the Church of the first seven ecumenical councils, and confess its creed every sunday, should I be allowed to take communion? What would specifically bar me from communion in your mind?

your confession of Rome excommunicates you.

 

[AveChristusRex]

your confession of Rome excommunicates you.

So I should not attend an Orthodox parish?

 

[prodromos]

In Russian Orthodoxy, but not Greek to my knowledge?

Greek also.

 

[prodromos]

So I should not attend an Orthodox parish?

You should, the Orthodox Church is the ark of salvation, but you need to repent of your errors.

 

[ArmyMatt]

No, but it gives wiggle room I think, at least within "world orthodoxy"

no it doesn’t. it’s already been addressed. we have services that call Rome heretics. Rome is called heretical when they are received into the Church. there is no wiggle room.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So I should not attend an Orthodox parish?

you should, to become Orthodox

 

[ArmyMatt]

Greek also.

yep, St Porphyrios refused an audience with the Pope. he said it’d bear no good fruit unless the Pope repents and its better to pray.

 

[RileyG]

except He tells the Apostles they will be led into all truth. not some truth or as much as they can handle, but all of it.

and we do believe in doctrinal development until Pentecost. after Pentecost there is no more doctrinal development since God has perfectly revealed Himself in His Incarnate Son.

are you referring to doctrine ALONE and not liturgy and other traditions? After Pentecost nothing else could be revealed?

In other words, doctrine never changes

Is doctrine and dogma essentially the same?

Blessings

 

[RileyG]

put another way, in his book That They All Shall be Saved, he says that the God of the OT is not the Father of Christ, but actually a pagan storm god. that means he fundamentally disagrees with every Ecumenical Council since Constantinople I.

Nestorians aren’t even that bad.

Oh wow! That almost sounds like Gnosticism and NOT Christian! BIG YIKES!!!