Lordship Salvation is hideous

[SabbathBlessings]

I think its important to not pluck out a verse from its context.

For example on John 3:16 many stop there, but John didn't.

3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

God came to save the world, not condemn but does that not mean there is not a condemnation for those who do not believe? And what does believe mean? To believe in Jesus but not be live Him meaning, following what Jesus taught and giving up self and living as Jesus lived for our example.

John continues . . .

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

According to scripture the condemnation is not coming to the truth of God's Word (how we are sanctified John 17:17) and exposing our deeds (sin) to God, so that through Christ when we repent, means feel sorry for breaking God's law and sinning, laying our sins at His feet asking for His help in not only forgiving our sins, but forsaking them Pro 28:13 meaning receiving His sanctification. People want all the blessings of Christ, but they really do not want to be Christ-like which means to be a follower of Christ.

We are nothing if we are not in Christ and if we are in Christ we would be living as Christ lived as He is our example to follow.

Our salvation has always been conditional and believing in Jesus is more than just surface I believe in Him, so does Satan angles and they will not be saved, we need to be live Him.


John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Are these different commandments than what Jesus kept? Of course not

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

There is only one Door and that is Jesus, no other way

John 15: 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

No one is saved by our obedience to God because we all have sinned, so that is not the way. Because a saved person abides in Jesus, they live how Jesus lived and have His same faith. We are not saved by our obedience, our obedience to God is a result of our salvation in Him because He has changed us from the inside out and we want to obey Him through faith and love, it should be a natural thing to want to do because Christ is enabling us to obey Him through our love and cooperation John 14:15-18 and sad so many argue against this.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints (the saved); here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This is the faith that reconciles us:

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

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I did not say where does The Bible say where Jesus is King. I was asking where does it say in The Bible what you wrote only a remnant are saved because they know Him as Lord and King.

So where does The Bible say to be saved a person must know Jesus as Lord and King.

Romans 10:9-10: "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

John 8:31 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" These are saved believers John 3:15 "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." but Jesus says if you continue in the word then you are disciples. Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Discipleship, taking up the cross, Following Jesus is works. yes it is. Salvation and discipleship cannot mix, according to Jesus they are not the same thing John 8:31 this proves discipleship and salvation are not the same.

Reading the bible, obeying commands, thats works, thats discipleship. We should do that after salvation to keep a good relationship with God avoid chastisement and grow in sanctification. but has nothing to do with the free gift of salvation. If you have to repent of this sin or that sin or clean up the life, thats works not salvation. Do not conflate salvation and discipleship they are two separate things. salvation is a one time event passed from death to life, in a moment of time twinkling of an eye. Counting the cost is works, salvation is not costly.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

John 6:47 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Simply believing in Jesus is not enough; faith in Him implies action and a commitment to follow His teachings. Jesus consistently called people not only to believe in Him but to live according to His words. True faith involves a transformation of the heart, mind, and actions, aligning one's life with the will of God. As Jesus said in Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” Believing in Jesus requires obedience and a willingness to walk the path He laid out.


Repentance, as Jesus taught, is a turning away from sin and a transformation of the heart and mind toward God. It is not merely feeling sorry for wrongdoing but involves a genuine change in direction—a decision to leave behind sinful ways and embrace a life aligned with God's will. Jesus frequently emphasized the necessity of repentance as a foundational step to enter the kingdom of God. In Matthew 4:17, He began His public ministry by proclaiming, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” This call to repentance demonstrates its importance as the first response to the good news of the Gospel.


The Gospel of Jesus centers on the message that God’s kingdom and through Him, humanity can be reconciled with God. Repentance is crucial because sin separates us from God. Jesus came to bridge that separation by offering forgiveness and a new way of life. He warned that without repentance, people cannot fully participate in the kingdom of God. In Luke 13:3, Jesus plainly stated, “Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” This shows that repentance is not optional; it is essential for salvation and spiritual renewal.

Jesus also illustrated repentance through parables, such as the story of the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32. In this parable, the younger son recognizes his sin, returns to his father, and humbly seeks forgiveness. The father’s loving and joyful response represents God’s readiness to forgive those who truly repent. This parable reveals the heart of repentance, a willingness to admit wrongs, turn back to God, and trust in His mercy.

Repentance is important because it opens the door to God’s forgiveness and transformation. Jesus said in Mark 1:15, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Here, repentance and belief go hand in hand. True repentance prepares the heart to receive the grace and truth of the Gospel, leading to a restored relationship with God and a life of righteousness.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

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I did not say where does The Bible say where Jesus is King. I was asking where does it say in The Bible what you wrote only a remnant are saved because they know Him as Lord and King.

So where does The Bible say to be saved a person must know Jesus as Lord and King.

As far as the " remnant ", all through scripture it tells us who they are , they are the faithful. The faithful are those who hear His Voice and are in His Flock who are part of the Kingdom of God where Jesus Christ of Nazareth is King and Lord.

 

[d taylor]

Romans 10:9-10: "Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

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Paul is writing to people who are already believers. So this verse is not stating what an unbeliever must do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and become a born again child of God.

Paul is stating to believers what they must do to be saved physically.
This is seen because Paul writes

Verse 13
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Then Paul writes in verse 14
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

See it is not confessing Jesus is Lord that makes an unbeliever a believer. Because as Paul writes in Verse 14
that how can they call (confessing Jesus is Lord) on Him who they have not believed?

See it is believing in Jesus that gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. So then after belief in Jesus the now believer can call on the name of the Lord for help for saving help in their daily life.

Has This Passage Ever Bothered You? – Romans 10:9-10 – Grace Evangelical Society

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[JEBofChristTheLord]

Still haven't found anything "hideous" about anything called "Lordship salvation". But I imagine there are hideous things called by that name. Anyone got one?

 

[ozso]

Nah...it is the Calvanist view mixed in with something else. In the end, it is another corrupt tactic of the Adversary who deciveves in order to stumble. The Gospel of Truth is written , people just have to read it plainly and stop adding to it. Thanks for sharing!
Be blessed.

I gave the view I've heard about it from Free Grace proponents. My opinion of it having been taught about it by Lordship Salvation proponents, is when I got into a discussion with a Catholic on CF regarding salvation, I found out that the two views are extremely similar. I don't think it's necessarily a Calvinist view, although it was greatly popularized by John McArthur.

 

[Cockcrow]

So Jesus Christ of Nazareth is not your Lord?

Jesus is Lord whether you make him Lord or not. he doesn't need you to make him Lord, no Jesus is Lord

 

[Cockcrow]

Still haven't found anything "hideous" about anything called "Lordship salvation". But I imagine there are hideous things called by that name. Anyone got one?

Mixing discipleship and salvation is damnable false gospel

 

[d taylor]

I gave the view I've heard about it from Free Grace proponents. My opinion of it having been taught about it by Lordship Salvation proponents, is when I got into a discussion with a Catholic on CF regarding salvation, I found out that the two views are extremely similar. I don't think it's necessarily a Calvinist view, although it was greatly popularized by John McArthur.

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If the salvation message is not belief in Jesus for Eternal Life salvation. Then they are basically all saying the same thing a faith plus some other action required for salvation or a no faith and all personal action.

 

[ozso]

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If the salvation message is not belief in Jesus for Eternal Life salvation. Then they are basically all saying the same thing a faith plus some other action required for salvation or a no faith and all personal action.

It is basically impossible to describe Lordship Salvation without adding in a personal performance factor. Even for those who say they don't believe in a performance based salvation.

This 7 min video from Steve Gregg's radio call-in show called The Narrow Path lays it out well:

 

[d taylor]

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Ray Comfort & Todd Friel are examples of extreme Lordship salvation

 

[d taylor]

It is basically impossible to describe Lordship Salvation without adding in a personal performance factor. Even for those who say they don't believe in a performance based salvation.

This 7 min video from Steve Gregg's radio call-in show called The Narrow Path lays it out well:

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If you have 2 hours

 

[ozso]

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If you have 2 hours

Oh cool thanks. I'm very interested.

 

[JulieB67]

Simply believing in Jesus is not enough; faith in Him implies action and a commitment to follow His teachings. Jesus consistently called people not only to believe in Him but to live according to His words. True faith involves a transformation of the heart, mind, and actions, aligning one's life with the will of God.

Yes, that's what true repentance is. It has to be his will before our own. That can take time but again that's what repentance is -that change of heart and mind.

 

[David Lamb]

Mixing discipleship and salvation is damnable false gospel

Being a disciple of Jesus is what a person is when they are saved, so the two are closely linked. You cannot be a true disciple of Jesus unless you are saved, and if you are saved, you are a disciple of Jesus.

 

[d taylor]

Todd Friel isn't Lordship salvation is he? I thought he was faith alone through Grace alone...

I don't know why that it is but I noticed many Grace pastors are also big on the"hellfire brimstone, you better shape up." type of sermons.

I have to say I quite enjoy that kind of preaching. You have to temper it some but I find it encouraging anyway. I figure they think we all need it since we believe in Grace. That little extra encouragement to do what God wants. That's how I take it

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Hell fire preachers are usually a worked based preacher

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Here is a list complied by Curtis Smale who has this website at wordpress Grace, Insight, and Art

Here is a LIST of Lordship Salvation False Gospel Preachers

 

[ozso]

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If you have 2 hours

Okay that was fun.

Here's another between Steve and Tommy Bertoli the pastor of a church I was attending at the time. I think maybe my egging them both on to debate each other brough this one about. To this day if I call Steve and I mention Tommy, he immediately hangs up (just kidding).

 

[ozso]

Being a disciple of Jesus is what a person is when they are saved, so the two are closely linked. You cannot be a true disciple of Jesus unless you are saved, and if you are saved, you are a disciple of Jesus.

This the way I look at it. I'd love Jesus and want to follow his guidance even if there was no mention of going to heaven.

It's interesting to me that the old testament is full of people who were extremely faithful to God, but there's practically nothing in the entire OT about going to heaven or hell.

 

[ozso]

Here is a LIST of Lordship Salvation False Gospel Preachers

"Bob Wilkin and Grace Evangelical Society – The Crossless Gospel, Death-less, Resurrection-less False Gospel

Wilkin’s Gospel is the Most Deceptive False Gospel I have ever found."

I have a feeling this guy practically has everyone except himself on his list.