Why Seeing the “Other Party” as the Enemy Is Dangerous for Us All

[rebornfree]

Americans are not required to state party support. We're not even required to be in a party.

Oh sorry, I didn't read all your previous post, to OldAbramBrown, concerning registering your party support to vote in the primaries in some states.

 

[RDKirk]

Oh sorry, I didn't read all your previous post, to OldAbramBrown, concerning registering your party support to vote in the primaries in some states.

That is to vote in the party primary...if your party even has a primary. If your party has a primary and you want to vote in it, you kinda have to tell them who you are.

But not all parties have primaries...it's not a requirement. Your party might just do backroom deals to select a candidate. In that case, they don't care who you are.

 

[Helmut-WK]

The reason Trump was hated so much before he even entered office - to the point that Democrats rioted across the country upon his election and in many cases refused to accept the results of the election

Oh, really? Did they storm into the white house to prevent the certification of Trump's election in 2016? Or what kind of actions do you mean?

This idea really got started when the Democrats decided to promote homosexual unions as "marriages," they argued that it was a human rights issue, the implication being that their opponents were inhumane oppressors.

I'm against homosexual "marriages" - but let us be honest: Did the opponents to this law say this was a normal political debate, no matter of moral right or wrong, no reason for hatred or painting the LGB lobby as bad (note: I know that there have been added some letters to the LGB formal since that time…)?

It seems your picture is skewed.

This kind of rhetoric found its way into Democrats' speech about race relations, abortion, gender, etc., years before Trump was even a candidate in the primaries.

I suppose a democrat party member would say that cause and effect where the other way: The democrats reacted to the republican way …

Maybe the truth is in the middle?

 

[Helmut-WK]

That is to vote in the party primary...if your party even has a primary. If your party has a primary and you want to vote in it, you kinda have to tell them who you are.

But not all parties have primaries...it's not a requirement. Your party might just do backroom deals to select a candidate. In that case, they don't care who you are.

At leadst on the federal level, there are only two parties that have a chance to win the election, democrats and republican. This may change in future, but at present the political system can be described as a two-party system.

How many congress members are neither democrat nor republican, and which parties do they belong to?

 

[Hazelelponi]

An extremely dangerous position being taken by some Democrats is the public advice to shun family members who voted for the "wrong" party. That smells like the beginning of the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

I've been saying for a long time they have developed a very Maoist culture here.

That's what all the bowing and scaping apology tours are about. Josh Shapiro apologizing for being Jewish etc etc, white people bowing and scaping for being born white etc etc.

It's all Maoist. The only way to win is to refuse to play the game.

We have to recall what unites us as a people and rise above the noise to overcome it.

 

[stevevw]

That's Critical Theory you're seeing with regard to the situation in Israel. The Israelis are marked as the "Colonizer" oppressors, the Palestinians are marked as the oppressed indigenous people.

Yes the ideological lens in which all human relations and differences are one of power relations of some sort. In the past it was class. Now its anything cultural or social.

Except the very oppression and denial of rights percieved by the ideologues in the oppressors is actually a projection of the power exerted by the so called victims.

If you notice the main objectors to Isreal being an oppressor came from the very nations who are well known to oppress and the Woke UN who is well known for supporting oppressors of human rights by excusing their terror as legitimate and giving them a platform. Afterall it was the UN who had Hamas sympathisers working within their own ranks.

Thje same with the critical theorist ideologues who are busy calling anyone who voted for Trump a Nazi and for relatives and others to disassociate and disown Trump supporters for simply expressing their political views. THis is the true power controllers who want to shut down any opposing views while at the same time virtue signalling about inclusion and tolerance.

Critical theory and Marxism or its modern version are debunked ideologies. We have seen their chaos and division. Until we get back to the basic truths we know work. The principles we built our free nations on like free speech and belief, meritocracy, individual and human worth being made in Gods image we will always be divided.

These truth principles stand true independent of human ideology and therefore keep us in check. They cannot be taken away or defined by humans or governments or any powers and they are natural rights regardless of identity.

 

[RDKirk]

That is to vote in the party primary...if your party even has a primary. If your party has a primary and you want to vote in it, you kinda have to tell them who you are.

But not all parties have primaries...it's not a requirement. Your party might just do backroom deals to select a candidate. In that case, they don't care who you are.

At leadst on the federal level, there are only two parties that have a chance to win the election, democrats and republican. This may change in future, but at present the political system can be described as a two-party system.

How many congress members are neither democrat nor republican, and which parties do they belong to?

That doesn't have anything to do with the question or my response regarding voters revealing their party affiliation.

 

[jas3]

I suppose a democrat party member would say that cause and effect where the other way: The democrats reacted to the republican way …

Maybe the truth is in the middle?

It's not, but I can tell you're not really interested in engaging with that idea.

 

[iarwain]

An extremely dangerous position being taken by some Democrats is the public advice to shun family members who voted for the "wrong" party.

I saw that. And I also saw that some women have taken to sterilizing themselves because they fear Trump was going to take away their reproductive rights. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. I almost feel sorry for these people, because they are being fed bad information and falling prey to fear tactics about Trump. As far as I can tell, Trump has no intent to push for a national abortion ban, being content to leave it up to the states, as the Supreme Court decided. The woman I saw lived in Washington state, and I'm pretty sure that state isn't going to be voting for an abortion ban.

Ok so in acknowledging this do you think ultimately there is no chance that the current system can achieve true peace and unity no matter who is in charge unless they honor the truth principle that humans are made in Gods image.

I would go further than that, I would say there is no chance we know true peace while we are under the Fall. There will be no true peace until the Second Coming. In the meantime, we prayerfully do the best we can.

 

[Helmut-WK]

It's not, but I can tell you're not really interested in engaging with that idea.

That I don't share your point of view does not mean that I am disinterested.

I asked for evidence, and I got nothing from you. So the conclusion I draw is …

 

[Helmut-WK]

That doesn't have anything to do with the question or my response regarding voters revealing their party affiliation.

It has to do with your remark that not every party has primaries. But every important party in the USA has.

Do you complain that I comment on what you say, just because you originally put another question?

 

[stevevw]

I would go further than that, I would say there is no chance we know true peace while we are under the Fall. There will be no true peace until the Second Coming. In the meantime, we prayerfully do the best we can.

Yes I agree. But I was trying to relate it back to a truth principle that we humans have learnt about human nature. The truth principles we had already learnt from our lived experience and reality often the hard way.

The founding fathers of many nations and throughout western cultural development we have recognised the value of the individual made in Gods image. Through Bill of Rights and national Declarations and more recently United Nations Human Rights.

In our early development we were very God orientated and though the State was encroaching on the church we upheld these truth principles for a long time. The founding fathers recognised that society needed something beyond its own fallible determinations for truth and human worth. That is why the rights to the freedoms within these early examples were classed as natural and God given. Human were divine creatures being made in Gods image.

But as time went on the God part has been taken out. The UN Declaration makes Human Rights themselves natural and inalienable. As though the Rights have the power within themselves which is not really any power because they can be redefined without some truth basis that is human like as well but beyond human fallibility.

But now even that is questioned. The truth principles we built our free nations on are questioned and discarded. Its all about identity, subjective feelings and relative beliefs are what makes truth and reality.

So as a truth principle humans need something outside themselves on which to base human worth and rights. You don't need religion or Gods truth to know this as it has been proven by our own acknowledgement of this due to how we have messed things up so many times and cannot trust ourselves or any one version of ourselves to get things right when it comes to human worth.

Part of AA is to come to believe that a higher power could restore sanity and get the alcoholics life in order. Though many choose God some used AA itself as the higher power. The combined power of the AA movement and meetings. Which is still allowing the person to depend on something greater than their own fallible ideas.

Same principle as God as the higher power. We need some sort of power greater than ourselves and yet human enough and perfect enough to base human worth and how we should order ourselves and society.

Yet many people don't even recognise this truth principle as though even if they do recognise it they are opening themselves to something greater than themselves having some control and say in their life for which they are not willing to allow.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Helmut-WK]

But as time went on the God part has been taken out.

This happened very early, e.g. in the declaration of human rights in the French revolution, 11th of July, 1789.

Historically, human rights are the other side of the coin of the christian duties (if you have the duty not to harm other people, this can be described as a right not to be harmed). Turning duties into rights was the first step, the elimination of God a rather logical consequence.

Part of AA

What does AA mean? I only find search results like American airlines

Yet many people don't even recognise this truth principle as though even if they do recognise it they are opening themselves to something greater than themselves having some control and say in their life for which they are not willing to allow.

 

[iarwain]

In our early development we were very God orientated and though the State was encroaching on the church we upheld these truth principles for a long time. The founding fathers recognised that society needed something beyond its own fallible determinations for truth and human worth. That is why the rights to the freedoms within these early examples were classed as natural and God given. Human were divine creatures being made in Gods image.

But as time went on the God part has been taken out.

You're spot on, we are headed in the wrong direction, and it may well be disastrous for us. The Bible is full of Godless nations that came to a bad end. Israel itself even serves as a warning. Of course a lot of atheists want to deny that the country was ever established in God's principles in any way, and their arguments have been used as leverage to remove God from our society. Which is all very unfortunate.

 

[stevevw]

You're spot on, we are headed in the wrong direction, and it may well be disastrous for us. The Bible is full of Godless nations that came to a bad end. Israel itself even serves as a warning. Of course a lot of atheists want to deny that the country was ever established in God's principles in any way, and their arguments have been used as leverage to remove God from our society. Which is all very unfortunate.

Yes I think for the first time in a long time and perhaps in our history that we have completely rejected God in the public square and in fact are hostile to God. I think the hostility is the result of now rejecting God. Whereas before we still were open and allow God a place.

This has caused division as God is also the God of truth and objective reality. So those opposing God are also opposing His order, the natural order of things which then causes conflicts between people and with reality itself. People can get away with a false substitute for truth and order fo a while but then it starts to fall apart and decend into chaos.

The Right at least are open to God but this may also end up being a false prophet. Or it may lead to a Christain revival. Certainly Trump has said that he will support the freedom of religion and stop the persecution of the church and Christians that was happening under the Lefts abuse of power.

But I can't see secular society becoming Godly. I think there may be less Christains during this time but they will be great Christians because they have to stand in the midst of a society that has abandoned God. Christianity shines best when under persecution.

 

[stevevw]

This happened very early, e.g. in the declaration of human rights in the French revolution, 11th of July, 1789.

Yes it varied and the French have always rebelled against God. But primarily the west still respected God and were based on the bible. We see this in how divorce was only made legal in the 70's and SS marriage post 2000. Even earlier in the 20th century homosexuality was illegal. That showed that God influenced our politics and laws.

We seen a mass movement away from God post 60s revolutions and from that point we were replacing God with secular ideology. I think post 2000 we really started to explicitely remove God completely and now to the point of Christiainity being in conflict with secular ideology. We have seen the rise of persecution of the church mostly post 2000.

Historically, human rights are the other side of the coin of the christian duties (if you have the duty not to harm other people, this can be described as a right not to be harmed). Turning duties into rights was the first step, the elimination of God a rather logical consequence.

Yes thats a good point. It seems Rights based politics is dominant even to the point that individual rights trump whats best for others and society. The opposite of self sacrifice for your neighbour and rather 'Me first' and especially anyone who threatens those percieved rights.

What does AA mean? I only find search results like American airlines

Sorry its Alcoholics Anonymous.

The Twelve Steps of AA - Alcoholics Anonymous

The relative success of the AA program seems to be due to the fact that an alcoholic who no longer drinks has an exceptional faculty for "reaching" and helping an uncontrolled drinker. In simplest form, the AA program operates when a recovered alcoholic passes along the story of his or her own...

aa.org.au

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes I think for the first time in a long time and perhaps in our history that we have completely rejected God in the public square and in fact are hostile to God. I think the hostility is the result of now rejecting God. Whereas before we still were open and allow God a place.

This has caused division as God is also the God of truth and objective reality. So those opposing God are also opposing His order, the natural order of things which then causes conflicts between people and with reality itself. People can get away with a false substitute for truth and order fo a while but then it starts to fall apart and decend into chaos.

The Right at least are open to God but this may also end up being a false prophet. Or it may lead to a Christain revival. Certainly Trump has said that he will support the freedom of religion and stop the persecution of the church and Christians that was happening under the Lefts abuse of power.

But I can't see secular society becoming Godly. I think there may be less Christains during this time but they will be great Christians because they have to stand in the midst of a society that has abandoned God. Christianity shines best when under persecution.

We have to pray for revival.

I believe it's truly possible.

 

[stevevw]

We have to pray for revival.

I believe it's truly possible.

I will come because when Christainity is persecuted it sorts out the wheat from the chaff and calls upon Christains to be Christains. But Christains as in past times when they were persecuted and we know from these times many great revivals and works were done.

The truth shines for all to see more when subjected to the lies of Satan and it cuts even more to the bone because the situation becomes life or death and reality itself.

In fact this also pushes the evil tactics and ideologies to new levels where people get desperate and attack the truth even more. Its no longer an implicit attack but becomes explicit. Its like it triggers all the evil bile to come to the surface. People get vicious and want to attack, shut down and actually want to kill those who represent the truth.

We have seen this come up in recent times. So I think we are moving into a showdown of somesort where Christains are going to be persecuted a lot in one way or another. Though Trump has won a reprive for God and the Truth I don't think things will change.

So fundementally this is a spiritual battle behind all the political ideology about respecting or defying God. But like I said thats when the true Christains stand up and this will shine and many will not be able to resist the truth of what they are witnessing.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I will come because when Christainity is persecuted it sorts out the wheat from the chaff and calls upon Christains to be Christains. But Christains as in past times when they were persecuted and we know from these times many great revivals and works were done.

The truth shines for all to see more when subjected to the lies of Satan and it cuts even more to the bone because the situation becomes life or death and reality itself.

In fact this also pushes the evil tactics and ideologies to new levels where people get desperate and attack the truth even more. Its no longer an implicit attack but becomes explicit. Its like it triggers all the evil bile to come to the surface. People get vicious and want to attack, shut down and actually want to kill those who represent the truth.

We have seen this come up in recent times. So I think we are moving into a showdown of somesort where Christains are going to be persecuted a lot in one way or another. Though Trump has won a reprive for God and the Truth I don't think things will change.

So fundementally this is a spiritual battle behind all the political ideology about respecting or defying God. But like I said thats when the true Christains stand up and this will shine and many will not be able to resist the truth of what they are witnessing.

You made me cry. (Don't worry it's not bad)

Thank you for the encouragement .. Praise God.

God bless you and your family greatly. May the Lord bless you and keep you all.

 

[Helmut-WK]

I will come because when Christainity is persecuted it sorts out the wheat from the chaff and calls upon Christains to be Christains. But Christains as in past times when they were persecuted and we know from these times many great revivals and works were done.

If you look unto the whole world, there is no need to speak of past times. The Church grows in countries like Iran, where there is severe persecution.

Sometimes it is the other way: Persecution starts, when non-christians observe the church i growing. In the USSR, the bolsheviks imaged religion would die out when the masses are enlightened by atheist propaganda, so (apart from the state church,m which suffered as a former agent of Tsarism (it had persecuted Russian believers!) Christians were free to evangelize - that was stopped by Stalin in 1928.

We have seen this come up in recent times. So I think we are moving into a showdown of somesort where Christains are going to be persecuted a lot in one way or another.

Ask OpenDoors for the present situation - there is persecution in almost every continent!

There is also a church that has no problems to go into bed with the mighty ones, the »merchants and kings«, as Revelation says. Christians hailing a politician (king) that is a friend of multi-billionaire »merchants« may be the first step to such a »harlot of Babylon«.