Creation

[Diamond72]

The fallen angels haven't stopped coming to earth and tempting us.

Peter said they are in chains so how can they tempt us?

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment."​

 

[David Lamb]

Peter said they are in chains so how can they tempt us?

2 Peter 2:4 "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment."​

Is Satan a fallen angel? The bible says he is. Paul when writing to Christians at Thessalonica, said:

“For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.” (1Th 3:5 NKJV)

It seems that God permits Satan, and maybe some other fallen angels too, a degree of liberty, otherwise Satan could not tempt us.

 

[davetaff]

Is Satan a fallen angel? The bible says he is. Paul when writing to Christians at Thessalonica, said:

“For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.” (1Th 3:5 NKJV)

It seems that God permits Satan, and maybe some other fallen angels too, a degree of liberty, otherwise Satan could not tempt us.

Hi
Why dose God allow Satan and his demons to have free reign on the earth the only reason I can think of is so we can choose detween good and evil.
The good is love we must choose to love when we love as we should we have access to the body of Christ which gives us salvation so let us love God and love our neighbours.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Diamond72]

It seems that God permits Satan, and maybe some other fallen angels too, a degree of liberty, otherwise Satan could not tempt us.

We see this with Eve: You shall be as God. I do not see how anyone can be tempted by that. Although my pastor when people would receive healings and miracles, he would tell people not to look at him but to look at God.

 

[Job 33:6]

Is Satan a fallen angel? The bible says he is. Paul when writing to Christians at Thessalonica, said:

“For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.” (1Th 3:5 NKJV)

It seems that God permits Satan, and maybe some other fallen angels too, a degree of liberty, otherwise Satan could not tempt us.

Satan is one being. 2 Peter is talking about a multitude of imprisoned spirits, so he's not actually talking about Satan. But I do otherwise think that Satan is best understood as a fallen angel.

I would say that 2 Peter and Jude are talking are talking about the fallen angels of Genesis 6.

 

[Diamond72]

Satan is one being. 2 Peter is talking about a multitude of imprisoned spirits, so he's not actually talking about Satan.

Satan took one third of the angels with him. Revelation 12:4: "His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."

We are going to replace those angels. In that we will worship, praise and honor God. That is why we have to be holy and sanctified.

 

[David Lamb]

Satan took one third of the angels with him. Revelation 12:4: "His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."

We are going to replace those angels. In that we will worship, praise and honor God. That is why we have to be holy and sanctified.

I have not read in the bible that we are going to replace the fallen angels. I wonder if you have a reference for this idea.

 

[Diamond72]

I have not read in the bible that we are going to replace the fallen angels. I wonder if you have a reference for this idea.

Yes, I can see where this could be a problem. For me, this issue is closely tied to worship. In the passage where Jesus speaks about marriage, He mentions that in the resurrection, we will be as or like the angels. While humans are currently positioned lower than angels, the future roles in God’s kingdom, such as judging angels, suggest a significant elevation. 1 Corinthians 6:3

So we are lower than the angels now but in Christ we are higher than the angels.

 

[Job 33:6]

Satan took one third of the angels with him. Revelation 12:4: "His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."

We are going to replace those angels. In that we will worship, praise and honor God. That is why we have to be holy and sanctified.

Those angels aren't the angels of Genesis 6.

 

[Diamond72]

angels of Genesis 6.

Do you mean the Cherubin?

Genesis 3:24 (NIV):"After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

The Sons of God in Chapter 6 are not angels. Jesus tells us that angels do not have relations like that. You are talking about the Book of Enoch, not the Bible. Many scholars and theologians suggest that the "sons of God" were likely from the godly lineage of Seth, intermarrying with the descendants of Cain, leading to moral corruption and the rise of the Nephilim.

Matthew 22:30 (NIV): Jesus says, "At the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

This passage suggests that angels do not marry or have marital relations. The angels do not become like us. WE become like the angels. You got it backwards.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hi
Creation again how should we read the creation account in Genesis I believe it should be understood starting when Noah stepped of the Ark and God began a new creation the only thing he needed to create was mankind in his image which would be Jesus Christ and the multitude of believers he presents to the father on the beginning of the 7th day of creation.
Each day of creation would be a 1000 years long and began with Noah and everything on the ark.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

This describes the world when God flooded the world water covered the world to the tops of the mountains.

Love and Peace
Dave

There are numerous problems with this idea but the biggest problem is that Noah was a descendant of Adam. So it can’t possibly work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Genesis describes ancient Israelite cosmology with the 7-days reflecting a temple inauguration.

The problem with this idea is that there never was a temple before or when Genesis was written.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hi folks
Thank you for your replies always interesting to read makes one think.
So was the first Adam created in the same way as the last Adam Jesus Christ we know the last Adam was Jesus the head and his body a whole multitude of believers so was the first Adam and Eve the same not one man and one woman but a whole multitude of people they started as one man but grew the same as the last Adam.
We know the first Adam died there was no man in Gods image so God began a new creation of man in his image the first man would be Israel.The man of flesh must come first then the spiritual man

When God said let there be light this light is the light of the world Jesus Christ through him all things were created through him.

Love and Peace
Dave

God created the light by speaking it into existence. Jesus was not created, everything that was created was created thru Jesus Christ and nothing that was created was not created thru Him. That’s what John 1 says.

 

[davetaff]

God created the light by speaking it into existence. Jesus was not created, everything that was created was created thru Jesus Christ and nothing that was created was not created thru Him. That’s what John 1 says.

Hi BNR32FAN
Thank your post but I think you will find when God said let there be light he was speaking of Jesus Christ the light of the world through whom all things are created he is the beginning and the end of creation the end of creation is man in the image of God which is the multitude of believers which he will present to the Father on his return

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Job 33:6]

Do you mean the Cherubin?

Genesis 3:24 (NIV):"After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

The Sons of God in Chapter 6 are not angels. Jesus tells us that angels do not have relations like that. You are talking about the Book of Enoch, not the Bible. Many scholars and theologians suggest that the "sons of God" were likely from the godly lineage of Seth, intermarrying with the descendants of Cain, leading to moral corruption and the rise of the Nephilim.

The sons of God, are Elohim. And this is plainly evident in a variety of places in the old testament. Not just in Enoch.

Matthew 22:30 (NIV): Jesus says, "At the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

This passage suggests that angels do not marry or have marital relations. The angels do not become like us. WE become like the angels. You got it backwards.

Who said anything about marriage?

 

[Job 33:6]

The sons of God, are Elohim. And this is plainly evident in a variety of places in the old testament. Not just in Enoch.


Who said anything about marriage?

Job 38:7 NASB1995
[7] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Here the sons of God are directly paralleled with morning stars. This is a common title of elohim or angels.

Job 1:6 NIV
[6] One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

Job 1:6 ESV
[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

Here's another example, you can see I've used two different translations to point this out, in Hebrew it's bene Elohim, sons of God. But you see some translations just simply say "angels". And here they are meeting in the heavens, and Satan is among them.

The sons of God are angels. This is established in Biblical hermeneutics and studies of the dead sea scrolls. This isn't debatable.

Maybe people just haven't read their Bibles close enough before to know that the sons of God are translated as "angels" in an assortment of translations, they're in passages that directly parallel them with angelic objects like stars, they are referenced in an assortment of passages that further link them to angels.

That's just what they are. Hence why many translations simply call them "angels" even when the Hebrew plainly says bene Elohim or "sons of God".

Here is another example:
Psalms 29:1 NIV
[1] Ascribe to the Lord, you heavenly beings, ascribe to the Lord glory and strength.

Psalms 29:1 NABRE
[1] A psalm of David. Give to the Lord, you sons of God, give to the Lord glory and might;

Psalms 29:1 CEV
[1] All you angels in heaven,honor the glory and powerof the Lord!

In Hebrew, that is bene Elohim. Here it is translated as "heavenly beings" or angels, depending on the translation.

 

[Job 33:6]

The problem with this idea is that there never was a temple before or when Genesis was written.

The problem with your response is that there were temples before Genesis was written. Unless you think that Moses (the author of Genesis) had never heard of a temple before.

"Oh but God wrote Genesis and it just fell out of the sky, Moses was just writing direct dictation".

Ok, well when you're ready to read the Bible in its original context, feel free to let me know.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The problem with your response is that there were temples before Genesis was written. Unless you think that Moses (the author of Genesis) had never heard of a temple before.

"Oh but God wrote Genesis and it just fell out of the sky, Moses was just writing direct dictation".

Ok, well when you're ready to read the Bible in its original context, feel free to let me know.

The word temple doesn’t even exist in the Torah so if you’d like to present a passage of scripture to support your statement I’d be glad to hear it. Until you can produce such a passage I would suggest that you refrain from the condescending remarks about reading the Bible since the Bible doesn’t actually contain evidence to support your claim.

 

[Job 33:6]

The word temple doesn’t even exist in the Torah so if you’d like to present a passage of scripture to support your statement I’d be glad to hear it. Until you can produce such a passage I would suggest that you refrain from the condescending remarks about reading the Bible since the Bible doesn’t actually contain evidence to support your claim.

??? There's no word for temple in the Torah? There are temples all throughout Torah. What are you talking about about?

Habakkuk 2:20 ESV
[20] But the Lord is in his holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before him.”

Psalm 11:4 ESV
[4] The Lord is in his holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; his eyes see, his eyelids test the children of man.

Psalm 11:4 NASB
[4] ¶The Lord is in His holy temple; the Lord’s throne is in heaven; His eyes see, His eyelids test the sons of mankind.

1 Kings 5:3 AMP
[3] “You know that David my father could not build a house (temple) for the Name (Presence) of the Lord his God because of the wars which surrounded him, until the Lord put his enemies under his feet. [2 Sam 7:4ff; 1 Chr 22:8]

Or, here is Deuteronomy:
Deuteronomy 23:18 CEB
[18] Don’t bring a female prostitute’s fee or a male prostitute’s payment to the LORD your God’s temple to pay a solemn promise because both of these things are detestable to the LORD your God.

Exodus 23:19 CEB
[19] Bring the best of your land’s early produce to the LORD your God’s temple. Don’t boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.

Exodus 34:26 CEB
[26] Bring the best of the early produce of your farmland to the LORD your God’s temple. Don’t boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.

Don't even bother commenting if you are just going to come up with irrational and confused responses.

Or ziggurats like the tower of babel? Those are temples.

Are you not aware that the Tower of Babel was a temple?

Etemenanki (the "Tower of Babel") - Livius

www.livius.org

That's part of the big issue with Moses and the Israelites while in captivity. Their captors, the Egyptians and Babylonians were worshipping pagan deities. And worship happens in temples. Pagans weren't just hanging out in the middle of deserts worshipping Baal. There were temples. Egyptian Temples. Babylonian temples, Akkadian temples, Assyrian temples. There are lots and lots of ancient pieces of literature about temples that date back to the time of Moses.

 

[Job 33:6]

And I suppose to be fair, the Israelites alongside Moses didn't have their own temple. They were wandering in the desert. They didn't have the resources. Hence why we see them building the tabernacle which serves as their place of worship. But they didn't just magically come up with the idea to build the tabernacle. They came out of Egypt where there were many temples for many pagan deities. And Egyptian temples were actually constructed in similar ways to the tabernacle.

@BNR32FAN you should frame your thoughts as questions, rather than statements, to avoid making statements that are false. There no historians perhaps on earth that would suggest that there were not temples in Egypt at the time of Moses and the exile of the Israelites. Egyptian temples are centuries and sometimes thousands of years older than Moses.

Temples of Egypt - The must-see temples of Egypt

Ancient Egyptian religion was integral to their society, and the incredible temples they built in honour of their gods and pharaohs reflected this.

www.introducingegypt.com