So, apparently The Church Is Israel

[Guojing]

Christians, both Jews and Gentiles/Greeks, are God's people in the new covenant.

The Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile, is a new creature, a mystery that was hidden, unsearchable, until revealed by the apostle Paul.

We are not God's people nor are we not saved by any covenant.

God's people is still Israel, in this case, true Israel, the remanent of the nation of Israel that believed Christ is their Messiah (Romans 9:6-8, Romans 11:5)

1 Corinthians 12:13 For in the one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Galatians 3:28 There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Jan001]

The Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile, is a new creature, a mystery that was hidden, unsearchable, until revealed by the apostle Paul.

We are not God's people nor are we not saved by any covenant.

God's people is still Israel, in this case, true Israel, the remanent of the nation of Israel that believed Christ is their Messiah (Romans 9:6-8, Romans 11:5)

If we Christians are not God's people, whose people are we?

We are saved by Jesus Christ, who is the New Covenant, the Mediator between God and man, and this is because Jesus is both God and man. Only a person who was both God and man could repair mankind's relationship with God because Adam's sin caused mankind to be separated from God's intimate fellowship.

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, 12 so that we, who were the first to set our hope on Christ, might live for the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; 14 this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s own people, to the praise of his glory.

 

[Guojing]

If we Christians are not God's people, whose people are we?

Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will, 12 so that we, who were the first to set our hope on Christ, might live for the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you had heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and had believed in him, were marked with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit; 14 this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s own people, to the praise of his glory.

Which Bible translation you are using here?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

 

[Jan001]

Which Bible translation you are using here?

NRSVCE



NIV:

Ephesians 1:14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

God's possession means God's people. IOW, we belong to God. We are his people.

CEB:

Ephesians 1:14 The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God’s own people, resulting in the honor of God’s glory.

 

[Guojing]

NRSVCE

Ahh, never realized this one existed and that Catholics prefer this version until now.

NIV:

Ephesians 1:14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

God's possession means God's people. IOW, we belong to God. We are his people.

If you really want to use NIV to form a doctrine that we are together with Israel in the Body of Christ, you might as well use the way they translate Ephesians 3:6 and Galatians 6:16

 

[Jan001]

Ahh, never realized this one existed and that Catholics prefer this version until now.

I use several different versions of the Bible, not all of them are Catholic.

If you really want to use NIV to form a doctrine that we are together with Israel in the Body of Christ, you might as well use the way they translate Ephesians 3:6 and Galatians 6:16

Ephesians 3:6 that is, the Gentiles have become fellow heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. NRSVCE

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. NIV

Ephesians 3:6 namely, that the Gentiles are joint heirs, fellow members of the body and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. MOUNCE Greek

I see what you mean. The NIV Israel is not mentioned in the Greek MOUNCE translation or NRSVCE of Ephesians 3:6.



Galatians 6:16 As for all who will follow this rule—may peace and mercy be upon them, even upon the Israel of God. MOUNCE

NIV Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to[a] the Israel of God. [a. Galatians 6:16 Or rule and to]

NRSVCE 15-16 For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything; but a new creation is everything! 16 As for those who will follow this rule—peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

ISTM that Paul is saying that the Israel of God is the people who still follow the first covenant.

However, there are no distinctions between people who live under the new covenant. Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11

 

[Guojing]

I use several different versions of the Bible, not all of them are Catholic.

Ephesians 3:6 that is, the Gentiles have become fellow heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. NRSVCE

Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. NIV

Ephesians 3:6 namely, that the Gentiles are joint heirs, fellow members of the body and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. MOUNCE Greek

I see what you mean. The NIV Israel is not mentioned in the Greek MOUNCE translation or NRSVCE of Ephesians 3:6.



Galatians 6:16 As for all who will follow this rule—may peace and mercy be upon them, even upon the Israel of God. MOUNCE

NIV Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to[a] the Israel of God. [a. Galatians 6:16 Or rule and to]

NRSVCE 15-16 For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything; but a new creation is everything! 16 As for those who will follow this rule—peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

ISTM that Paul is saying that the Israel of God is the people who still follow the first covenant.

However, there are no distinctions between people who live under the new covenant. Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11

I guess you are not into using KJV to establish scripture doctrine?

 

[Jan001]

I guess you are not into using KJV to establish scripture doctrine?

The original Greek Septuagint is the most accurate for doctrinal purposes.

The language in the KJV is too archaic for me. I do use the NKJV sometimes. Some English Bible versions are more accurate than others. What is noteworthy about the KJV is that King James I in 1611 approved this particular English translation of the Bible to be printed for Protestants.

 

[Guojing]

The original Greek Septuagint is the most accurate for doctrinal purposes.

The language in the KJV is too archaic for me. I do use the NKJV sometimes. Some English Bible versions are more accurate than others. What is noteworthy about the KJV is that King James I in 1611 approved this particular English translation of the Bible to be printed for Protestants.

If you compare Ephesians 1:14 in those 2 versions

KJV Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

NRSVCE this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s own people, to the praise of his glory.

the words after redemption have totally different meanings.

Now if you rather understand Ephesians 1:14 based on NRSVCE, I rest my case.

 

[Simonides]

Paul actually explains this pretty well.

It's the post 1900 era dispensationalist christians who believe we need to support a nation of Jews who say they are Jews but are not, in order for many of them to kill and be killed in wars.. so they can build a third temple, so Jesus can return. as if God needs us to support someone else to fulfill his prophecies which we can't even come to agreement on.


you could easily interpret the commands in the bible to pray for the peace in Jerusalem.. to mean the peace within the holy city of God's people.. not the physical territory. in other words, pray for God's people in your own town.

BINGO!

 

[Jan001]

If you compare Ephesians 1:14 in those 2 versions

KJV Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

NRSVCE this is the pledge of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s own people, to the praise of his glory.

the words after redemption have totally different meanings.

Now if you rather understand Ephesians 1:14 based on NRSVCE, I rest my case.

What or who is the purchased possession?

Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

All the people who still believe in Jesus Christ at the time of their death are the purchased possession. These people are God's people. If the Holy Spirit is still living within our souls at the time of our death, we will be worthy to inherit eternal life.

By his death on the cross, Jesus Christ ransomed/paid the price for Adam's sin so that we could be reconciled to God and become his own people.

Ransom: a consideration paid or demanded for the release of someone or something from captivity; to deliver especially from sin or its penalty

Mark 10:45 For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many.” 1 Timothy 2:6

 

[Guojing]

All the people who still believe in Jesus Christ at the time of their death are the purchased possession. These people are God's people. If the Holy Spirit is still living within our souls at the time of our death, we will be worthy to inherit eternal life.

By his death on the cross, Jesus Christ ransomed/paid the price for Adam's sin so that we could be reconciled to God and become his own people.

That is your own personal interpretation in trying to link the 2 versions to mean the same thing.

Its like reasoning in the following

A is linked to B
B is linked to C

Therefore A = C.

 

[Marilyn C]

So, apparently The Church Is Israel

Interesting


“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And If You Are Christ’s, Then You Are Abraham’s Seed, And Heirs According To The Promise.”

- Galatians 3:28-29

`you are OF Abraham`s seed,` and that SEED is Christ. We are not of Abraham`s natural seed.

God did not make an `oops` when He made the nation of Israel. He has a purpose for them as well as us and also a purpose for the nations. We are not `soup` together.

 

[Jan001]

That is your own personal interpretation in trying to link the 2 versions to mean the same thing.

Its like reasoning in the following

A is linked to B
B is linked to C

Therefore A = C.

The point I was making is that Christians, whether ethic Jews or not, are now God's own people. We are not Israel, but we are still God's own people. By his sacrificial death on the cross, Jesus purchased/ransomed us all from Adam's sin so that we could become God's adopted children if we choose to believe and be baptized to wash away our sins.

Israel is a separate group of people and a remnant of them will still become Christians before Jesus physically returns to earth at the end of time. Romans 11:5

 

[Guojing]

The point I was making is that Christians, whether ethic Jews or not, are now God's own people. We are not Israel, but we are still God's own people. By his sacrificial death on the cross, Jesus purchased/ransomed us all from Adam's sin so that we could become God's adopted children if we choose to believe and be baptized to wash away our sins.

Israel is a separate group of people and a remnant of them will still become Christians before Jesus physically returns to earth at the end of time. Romans 11:5

As I said, its your own personal interpretation, which of course you are entitled to have.

 

[Dan Perez]

So, apparently The Church Is Israel

Interesting


“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And If You Are Christ’s, Then You Are Abraham’s Seed, And Heirs According To The Promise.”

- Galatians 3:28-29

The Church Is Israel

A common belief in some American Evangelical circles (not all) is that the nation state of Israel is the Israel spoken about in the Bible, these are the “true Israelites” so therefore it must be supported at all costs, etc.

theuncreatedlight.substack.com

Not to be mistaken with geopolitical Israel.
It is the " Jerusalem from above".
Blessings

And this Gal 3: 28 , There CANNOT / OV , in the Greek is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means

that in the BODg Y of Christ , there will NEVERRRRRRRRRRRR EVER be Jew nor GREEK in the BODY of Christ , and the

word ARE / ESTE , is a Greek word in the Greek ,, saying it is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , meaning that you

always in Christ .

Then you have a verse in Col 3:11 does almost the same wording and says , but Christ is THE ALL THINGS and

those , three words , in the Greek , is TA PANTA , meaning THE BODY of CHRIST .

dan p

 

[Jan001]

As I said, its your own personal interpretation, which of course you are entitled to have.

And you are entitled to have your own personal interpretation.

Israel was God's chosen people under the first covenant. The practicing Israelites/Jews of today believe that this covenant is still in force. It is not. The first covenant was fulfilled when Jesus Christ died on the cross. It is no longer in force. Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15

Jesus' Church is God's chosen people under Jesus' New Covenant. Jesus makes no distinction between the ethnic Jewish Christians and the non-Jewish Christians under his New Covenant. The remnant practicing Israelites/Jews will one day join Jesus' Church under his New Covenant.

Matthew 16:18
1 Corinthians 12:13
Galatians 3:28

 

[keras]

The Church was mostly Jewish in its makeup for many years.
It was (and a denomination still is) the Nazarene sect of Judaism, the faithful remnant who followed Israel's Messiah. The "church" is not something separate from Israel, but rather is the remnant of the faithful within Israel and includes every faithful Christian individual alive.

Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones. Isaiah 1:8-9

So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant. Romans 11:1-5
The apostles continually say that Christians; born again believers, are the true elect ones: 2 Timothy 2:10; Col. 3:12; Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10

However, some people have a bizarre idea of who is Israel: counting the disobedient sons of Abraham as Israel while discounting entirely the sons of Abraham by faith.
Paul said that when the Jewish nation rejected Christ, the true Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the obedient few (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day, Romans 9:27-29 and Elijah's day. Romans 11:3-5

Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked Jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful Jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other Jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

The Israelite church was with Moses in the wilderness, Acts 7:37-38 And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israelites learned how to start accepting both Jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation. 1 Peter 2:9-10; Matthew 21:40-45 And so the remnant of true righteous Christian Israel have maintained the faith through this age, while a large portion of the established Church have lost the plot, to their eternal discredit.
And so it was also in Moses' day, when the many thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the tested and tried sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land. We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

The real Church is the faithful Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10; they are the Israelites of God.

Israelites literally means; the Overcomers for God.
They are present as part of each of the seven Church's of Revelation, which shows how the Lord will winnow out the 'wheat' and burn the 'chaff'. Matthew 3:12

 

[Guojing]

And you are entitled to have your own personal interpretation.

Israel was God's chosen people under the first covenant. The practicing Israelites/Jews of today believe that this covenant is still in force. It is not. The first covenant was fulfilled when Jesus Christ died on the cross. It is no longer in force. Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15

Jesus' Church is God's chosen people under Jesus' New Covenant. Jesus makes no distinction between the ethnic Jewish Christians and the non-Jewish Christians under his New Covenant. The remnant practicing Israelites/Jews will one day join Jesus' Church under his New Covenant.

Matthew 16:18
1 Corinthians 12:13
Galatians 3:28

So long as you recognize your reasoning, which is

A is linked to B
B is linked to C

Therefore A = C.