The Purpose of the Earth

[CoreyD]

14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

The Kingdon is the Spiritual kingdom, we (Christians) live in right now, which nothing can destroy. People from every nation are worshipping Him in this Kingdom.

Please explain Daniel 2:44, 45
How will the kingdom not be left to another people, but will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and will itself stand forever?
What kingdoms are crushed?

 

[bling]

I think we already established that the earth was not created for angels, but I don't know where you got that resurrected people cannot live on earth.
Perhaps you are thinking of Matthew 22:29-32, but there are two resurrections.
The first resurrection is for those who will be like the angels (they will have spirit bodies). Revelation 20:4, 6; 1 Corinthians 15:35-54
The second resurrection is not for those who will receive heavenly life. They are resurrected to earth. Revelation 20:12-14

Do you agree that there are two resurrections?

No! Do not agree with “Two” resurrections.

There is death and then the Judgment for all.

I explained Christ’s answer above on why there is not a mankind resurrection to earth

I think you said this before.
Since the Bible say there will be physical people around, as well as the earth, and I showed you those scriptures, let me see what problem you have with those scriptures.

Revelation 21:3 refers to men (anthrópos: a man, human, mankind) physical people.
Revelation 21:3 Interlinear: and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, 'Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God,

Do you accept that scripture speaks of men - physical people? Can you state yes or no, please.

We have been through this before: Rev. 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

If there are no seas how is this our planet or an earth?

The “New Jerusalem” is coming down on this New Place without seas, to a people who may not be mankind (more angel like than man like).

That resurrection at Revelation 20:4, 6 is different to the one that follows at Revelation 20:12, 13.

Please answer the following:

• Would you agree that these are two different resurrections?

no

• According to Revelation 20:3, why is the Devil bound and shut up in the abyss?

That is right now. Do we have any recordings scientifically verified to be from demons or satan, himself? Demons knowingly and very visibly dwelled in people and some talked during the first century, but now they are limited (bound from doing so) today.

• Where are the nations that the Devil will not be able to mislead?

Humans do not need the Devil to cause them to sin today, sinning is their choice. I do not see satan pulling the strings behind world leaders today, but world leaders leading other astray.

• According to Revelation 20:7, 8, after the Devil is released, whom does he try to mislead, and where are they?

Nations (people) like those living on earth today, at the time just prior to the second coming.

Genesis 8:21

And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.​

Can you please answer the following, yes, or no.

• Did God promise "I will never again curse the ground because of man"?

Yes, but if mankind is not on earth’s ground it would not be a curse for him.

Did God promise "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done"? Yes, but “as have done” means with water.

• Did God promise "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done"?

That is contrary to God's promise.
never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done. Genesis 8:21

“As I have done” the last time God did it with water, so He will not do it with water again.

Here - Revelation 20:12-14. Here - 1 Corinthians 15:38-40. Here - John 11:24-44. Here - John 5:28, 29

Rev. 20: 11… “The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.” The first earth is gone.

Rev. 20:12-14 talk about the dead from the sea and every where else going to the judgement, but it is not say they were returned to human (man like) form and the certainly would not be looking like they did burned, drowned and buried for hundred of years, there is nothing left of some, so they have some new form, from what Christ told us the new form is like the angel’s form.

Paul just get through saying: 1 Cor. 15: 35… someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

Paul is addressing the questions: “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” And very specifically telling us: What you planted (buried in the grave, dead ) is nothing like what comes out. Which would be true for every dead person.

Now we start with 1 Cor. 15: 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. From what Paul just got through saying we can be assured that “body” which comes forth will be nothing like the seed that went into the grave. The seed is nothing like what comes forth.

John 11 Raising Lazarus is nothing like what happens at the resurrection.

John 5 talks about everyone coming out of the grave, but that does not mean a few pieces of bones left in some graves, but a being and we are trying to determine what that being I like (Christ said like angels).

Yet, that is not what the scriptures say.
According to Revelation 20, and 21, there are people on the earth, during and after the 1,000 years, and 1 John 2:15-17, helps us appreciate that some of these are survivors of the old world.

Do you believe those who are like the angels, leave heaven and come back to earth?

No.

People can be like mankind or like angels, the name to describe these “beings” does not change, but what they are most like does and can change.

I just went over Rev, 20 and 21 plus 1 Cor. 15, 1 John 2:15-17 is as follows:

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

Where is going back to the earth in there?

 

[bling]

Paul is addressing annointed Christians.
"We", does not include everyone, and certainly those not annointed.

Paul is addressing some very specific questions: : 1 cor 15:35… someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”

Paul was not asked specifically about Christians, so he needs to address the answer for everyone (and everyone rises).

36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

Paul is calling these Christians “foolish” because they do not realize what you sow (bury in the ground), is not what comes up. But that would apply to every seed (dead person buried in the ground), so it would be foolish to think what you buried is what will come up (rise).

Would it not be foolish for us to think what we buried is what will be coming up, rising?

At John 10:16, we read:
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Those of the fold, are told, "Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom." Luke 12:32
This little flock, are Jesus' brothers. Matthew 25:40

We can thus see from the scriptures, that there is a difference between those who will rule, and those who will be ruled. Revelation 7:1-9; Luke 22:28-30

Rev. 7:1-9 has the 144,000 coming from only the 12 tribes of Israel named giving 12,000 from each tribe. The multitude is all the other saved people.

Luke 22: 29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

OK, the 12 judge the 144,000, but that does not mean they are “better”, since the context is serving; Luke 22: 26…Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.

The 12 would probably be better foot washers, then I am

The question was... Do you agree that at Revelation 7:4 those sealed number 144,000, and that number contrasts with the great multitude too large to count, or that no one could number, mentioned at Revelation 7:9?

In other words, does the number 144,000 contrast with the great multitude too large to count?

The 144,000 are all from Israel and not all that might be on this new Mount Zion. Heb. 12: 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Does a definite number not contrast with an indefinite number?


I do not see your point.
I am not discussing whether or not someone is a disciple.
The question is... Do you agree that one does not have to be in heaven to be standing before the throne and before the Lamb?

Everyone might go to heaven to be judged or some non-earth place. Those before God are all and only beings (people beings) in heaven, not hell bound.

Why would you assume that they are heavenly beings?

Since you agreed that Mount Zion is heaven, then you must also agree that only 144,000 are seen in heaven, according to Revelation 14:1.
Since the 144,000 at Revelation 7:1-3, is not the same as the great multitude at Revelation 7:9, then you must agree that the great multitude are not in heaven - Mount Zion.

No there might not be any contrast, but the 144,000 are Israelites while the others are all the saved.

If you disagree, please state why.

The 144,000 are only different from the multitude in that they are Israelites.



The Multitude are doing and saying righteous stuff:

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

“they are before the throne of God

and serve him day and night in his temple;

and he who sits on the throne

will shelter them with his presence.

16 ‘Never again will they hunger;

never again will they thirst.

The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]

nor any scorching heat.

17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne

will be their shepherd;

‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’

‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes

Did Jesus see the Devil taking him up on a high mountain and showing him all the kingdoms of the world, in his mind? Matthew 4:8
Do you believe that is how visions work?

I believe the testimony of two or three witnesses, as scripture tells us to do. Three witness went up the Mountain and say the same thing.

Did I say a vision is not something literally seen?
Peter thought he was seeing a vision, when the angel was leading him out of prison.
Evidently, they understood that a vision is like being in a world that is not on earth.


So, when Jesus was in the wilderness, being tempted by the Devil, did Jesus imagine that the Devil led him up into the holy city, and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, or did the Devil get into Jesus' mind?

Like Peter and others it is hard sometimes to determine if you saw a vision or saw the real thing, but when you have three seeing the same thing and thus Matthew record what they all saw at the same time, it is not a vision in the mind.

Exodus 24:9-11; Matthew 17:1-9; 2 Peter 1:16-18

Peter supports the idea they were eye witnesses and not just having a vision.

 

[bling]

Jesus resurrected Lazarus as a physical being.
Since you agree with that, then you agree that resurrection can be physical.

No! those physical raising of the dead, were recently dead bodied (which could be brought back to life), but the “Resurrection” is of all souls even if there is no “physical body” left.

The “Resurrection” is not just the raising of a dead body to return to the existing world, but every dead person’s resurrection to go to the judgement and not just join the prejudgment mankind on earth.

the reason Lazarus was resurrected as a physical being, is because he was to live on earth.
If Lazarus was to live in heaven, Jesus would not resurrect him as a physical being, but a spirit being.

The point is then, the location - where one will live, determines what kind of body God gives them, upon resurrection.

NO, the point is! The type of being which comes out of the grave, is totally dependent on if this is “The Resurrection” or just a raising of an existing body returned to life.

1 Corinthians 15:38-40
38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Those who will live on earth will be resurrected with a fleshly body.
Those who are resurrected to heaven, will be resurrected with a spirit body - one like Jesus'.

We both agree, at least some of the people raised, rise with a Spiritual body (like angels), the question than is: do some especially without a body in the grave, come back to life in, a totally new physical body, since that is not what happened before.

If they do have their old body back, then Christ did not answer the Sadducees question and really mislead them (lied). Also, Paul misleading those Christians in Corinth about, the body people will have at the resurrection, which he described as being totally different than what went into the grave.

Evidently you did not understand what was showing you earlier... I actually said this twice, but here it is again.

There are examples, in the scriptures of this figurative use.​

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is satiated [with blood] (ravah: to be saturated, drink one's fill) in heaven; Indeed, it will come down for judgment on Edom And on the people whom I have doomed for destruction.​

Please also see Haggai 2:20-22, and Genesis 11:1​

​

The heavens and earth are used in scripture figuratively to represent people.​

There is also Revelations 20:11.​

Just for a moment, think of the heavens as the powerful nations, and think of the earth as the inhabitants on earth.
The scriptures repeatedly paints that picture for us, in many scriptures.
God removes all powerful nations, and wicked mankind. Daniel 2:44; Revelation 16:14; Revelation 17:12-14; Revelation 19:17, 18; Psalm 92:7; Psalm 37:9, 38


I believe you mean throne.
Yes, God's throne is in heaven, and you said one does not have to be in heaven to be with Jesus.
One does not have to be in heaven to be before God's throne.
Do you agree?

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

I do not think God’s throne is some big chair somewhere.

We went through this, didn't we?
John 5:29

and will come forth--those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.​

Matthew 12:41, 42

The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.​

The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and now One greater than Solomon is here.​

Judgment takes place on earth, after the resurrection at the last hour.
This is not the first resurrection, of those whom the second death has no power.
Those raised up to a resurrected of judgment, can be affected by the second death. Revelation 20:12-15

These people rising from their grave after 3000 years do not have a physical body to jump back into.

The good people go right on to heaven and the bad people go to judgement, but this is not some jury trial going over the good and bad they have done to try and figure out, what is to be done with them, but this is their sentencing.

Heb. 9: …he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

There is nothing about some “second chance”, here?



Heb. 10: 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. …30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Petr 2: 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority.

Why are you leaving off other parts related to the text?
Daniel 7:14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

People nations and languages are on the earth. Not in heaven.
Do you agree?

Not as you think. The Kingdom is now from all nations and languages, believers are part of that Kingdom right now, this is before, “The Judgment”.

According to Daniel, this prophecy says "all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him".

So are you saying that these "powerless nations" will serve Christ and the Saints forever? Where will they be?

There are no other Sinful Kingdoms left after the judgment, but righteous previous rulers and leaders in heaven will worship and serve Him.

You'll have to support that claim with scripture. I do not know of any scripture that says that.

I just quoted Jesus: 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.

I gave you what Christ said about those in the resurrection an how it will be impossible to marry, but you shot holes through Christ’s answer by saying, Some have mankind bodies.

Why would Paul not call you a “fool”, for thinking the seed (dead person) you put into the ground is the exact same thing that comes out of the ground (this would not only apply to dead believers, since it fully applies to all dead people put into the ground).

For the answer to that, please see my second comment above.



So, it is your belief that the ones who go to heaven, do come back down to earth... a newly created physical earth?

No. I see the New Jerusalem coming down into the Spiritual Kingdom in heaven, there is no need of a physical earth.

 

[bling]

Let's address that, then.

Since the earth is here to stay, and it is God's purpose to have a family on earth (Ephesians 1:10; Matthew 6:10), there will be a resurrection, of both the righteous and unrighteous - not the wicked (Acts 24:15; John 5:28, 29), and they will be on earth, along with those who remain, when this word - not planet earth, is gone (1 John 2:17), there will be an earthly physical resurrection.

These don't share in the first resurrection, which is heavenly (Revelation 20:4, 6), and is made up of the sealed 144,000 (Revelation 7:1-3; Revelation 14:1-4), who are priest and kings, in the kingdom (Revelation 5:9, 10).
Rather, they are part of the second resurrection (Revelation 20:12-14), which includes persons who will be judged, during the 1,000 years (Matthew 12:41, 42).

I am certain I did a fine job, supporting that conclusion.

You did not address any of my questions:

Matthew, Mark and Luke all record all record the Sadducees asking Jesus (Matt. 22, Mark 12 and Luke 20)

The Sadducees come to Jesus with an impossible to answer question for a mankind of bodily resurrection (the same it is for your trying to defend a mankind resurrection).

They ask specifically about an incident that would happen at a Mankind resurrection of the dead: “at the resurrection” (this is not limited to “those who go to heaven”).

Jesus puts them down, by saying: “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?” Really telling them that their question is stupid, but would it not be unanswerable, like they assumed, for a mankind resurrection?

Jesus does address all those who are resurrected: “When the dead rise” which is not saying “when some of the dead rise”.

Jesus is saying (all those that rise) they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

All those that rise will be anglekind (like angels) and thus not like mankind.

All those which rise, have to be sexless to answer the Sadducee’s question or the question remains unanswerable and Christ is miss leading (lying).

How would you answer the Sadducee’s question about those who rise and go to the 1000 year reign place, since Christ’s answer would be wrong?

Answer my questions first and I will address your doctrine, which for the most part I have already done.

 

[bling]

Please explain Daniel 2:44, 45
How will the kingdom not be left to another people, but will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and will itself stand forever?
What kingdoms are crushed?

Dan. 2: 39 “After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.



44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.



“The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

Daniel explains the dream plainly. The would be Babylonian empire is Gold at the top and the other kingdoms which come later like: Mede/Persian, Greek and Roman, with the Roman Empire being iron and clay. These earthly kingdoms God allowed humans to build, but there will come a Kingdom not made by the hands of man, which will smash all other man-made earthly Kingdoms.

This rock (Jesus) will smash the Roman Empire’s Kingdom and extend the Kingdom of the mountain (Heavenly Kingdom to all of Earth) which went out to not only Babylon‘s Kingdom, but the whole earth, although this Kingdom is not of the earth, but a Spiritual Kingdom (Mount Zion), so it extends back to heaven.

There is no issue understanding that the Kingdom of God (Kingdom of Heaven) last forever in heaven with the Kingdom of God here on earth being drawn back to heaven at the Judgment. So my question is:

Do you not see Christ being the rock which destroyed all earthly Kingdoms when Christ first came to earth and set up the Kingdom of God on Earth, allowing willing people to join His Kingdom?

If Daneil is referring to some “earthly kingdom” after judgment, how can it last only 1000 years, since it is to last “forever”?

 

[CoreyD]

@bling
Let's address each of your answers, one at a time.

You do not believe there are two resurrections, and that is contrary to the scriptures, which speak of the first resurrection, and then a subsequent resurrection. Revelation 20:4, 6; Revelation 20:12-15; Acts 24:15; John 5: 28, 29
How do you respond?

That point is settled then.
Since the first resurrection is for only those whom reign with Christ for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4), over whom the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years (Revelation 20:6), in heaven (Revelation 14:1-4), these are the ones that will be like the angels, as mentioned at Matthew 22:30

This resurrection is not the same as the second resurrection, at Revelation 20:12-15, whom are "standing before the throne", considered "dead", and "judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds", some of whose "name was not found written in the book of life", and they are "thrown into the lake of fire".

All those who are resurrected to heaven, have their names written in the book of life, and are not subject to the second death.
Good. That's covered then.

Did God promise "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done"? Yes, but “as have done” means with water.

The answer is yes. The rational is irrelevant, as the promise is not never again will I use water, but "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done".
As I have done, refers to striking down every living creature on account of man.

Case closed on that as well.


Regarding the will and purpose of God, the threads title is, "The Purpose of the Earth".
The will and purpose that takes focus is not, whether God is saving man, or not, but what is God's purpose for the earth.
According to Ephesians 1:9-11 God's will and purpose involves this earth... from the very beginning.

9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, 10 regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. 11 In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,​

That is also settled.


Finally...
1 John 2:17 says The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains (menó: To remain, to abide, to stay, to continue, to dwell, to endure) forever.
The NIV is a very unreliable translation.

This verse says when this world of mankind is removed by God, those doing God's will, are the ones that will remain.
Not only does this make sense, since the earth will not be empty, when God destroys all those in opposition to his will (Revelation 11:18), but it is in harmony with the scriptures, which clearly outlines God's purpose to have a small number of persons rule with Christ, over the earth. Revelation 7:1-3; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 5:9, 10

On Mount Zion, only 144,000 sealed ones are seen.
The great multitude are not on Mount Zion, which is heaven.
Rather, it is said of them...
Revelation 7:15-17

15 For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16 They will no longer hunger nor thirst, nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any scorching heat; 17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”​

This is the same group that is seen at Revelation 21:3, 4

3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men (anthrópos: Man, human, person, mankind), and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.​

This multitude - mankind - make up the new earth.

It was not God's purpose to place man on the earth, and then take them to heaven.
All the scriptures in the Bible, relate to God's original purpose, and fulfilling that purpose, which involves this earth, and making all things new. Revelation 21:5; Isaiah 65:17-25

Jesus, who is well aware of God's purpose, and fulfilling that purpose, for which he was sent, told his followers to pray for the kingdom to come, and God's will to be done on earth.
What will was Jesus referring to?
Jesus quoted from Psalm 37:11

What does that Psalm tell us, about God's will for the earth? We read...
For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the LORD, They shall inherit the earth.
For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place, But it shall be no more.
But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Peace on earth.
Yes. That is God's will for the earth. God made the earth to be inhabited by people living in peace.
Peace on earth, is what nations and peoples will like to achieve, but this will only happen under Christ's rule. Isaiah 9:6, 7

According to Psalms 72, which is prophetic of Christ's rule, we read...
1 Give the king Your judgments, O God, And Your righteousness to the king’s Son.
2 He will judge Your people with righteousness, And Your poor with justice.
3 The mountains will bring peace to the people, And the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He will bring justice to the poor of the people; He will save the children of the needy, And will break in pieces the oppressor.
5 They shall fear You As long as the sun and moon endure, Throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the grass before mowing, Like showers that water the earth.
7 In His days the righteous shall flourish, And abundance of peace, Until the moon is no more.
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.
9 Those who dwell in the wilderness will bow before Him, And His enemies will lick the dust.
10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles Will bring presents; The kings of Sheba and Seba Will offer gifts.
11 Yes, all kings shall fall down before Him; All nations shall serve Him.
12 For He will deliver the needy when he cries, The poor also, and him who has no helper.
13 He will spare the poor and needy, And will save the souls of the needy.
14 He will redeem their life from oppression and violence; And precious shall be their blood in His sight.
15 And He shall live; And the gold of Sheba will be given to Him; Prayer also will be made for Him continually, And daily He shall be praised.
16 There will be an abundance of grain in the earth, On the top of the mountains; Its fruit shall wave like Lebanon; And those of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure forever; His name shall continue as long as the sun. And men shall be blessed in Him; All nations shall call Him blessed.
18 Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, Who only does wondrous things!
19 And blessed be His glorious name forever! And let the whole earth be filled with His glory. Amen and Amen.
20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.

Until the moon is no more, emphasizes as a hyperbole, that this is forever.

No. I see the New Jerusalem coming down into the Spiritual Kingdom in heaven, there is no need of a physical earth.

"coming down into the Spiritual Kingdom in heaven" ???
What does that mean?

Daniel explains the dream plainly. The would be Babylonian empire is Gold at the top and the other kingdoms which come later like: Mede/Persian, Greek and Roman, with the Roman Empire being iron and clay. These earthly kingdoms God allowed humans to build, but there will come a Kingdom not made by the hands of man, which will smash all other man-made earthly Kingdoms.

So God has a kingdom, that is greater than all other kingdoms. Yes.
A kingdom is a rulership, or government. Do you agree?
Therefore God sets up his own rulership... where? In heaven. Yes?

Who is the king of God's rulership, or government in heaven? Why, it is Christ the king (Isaiah 9:6), and he rules with whom?
Ah. Now we are on point. The 144,000 heirs. Daniel 7:27; Revelation 14:1

What will the kingdom accomplish? Isaiah 9:7

Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.​

​

Peace. Where? In heaven, and on earth. Yes... In him. Ephesians 1:10
There is already peace in heaven though, with the ousting of Satan, and his angelic followers. Revelation 12:10-12
So, Christ only has to accomplish peace on earth, when his kingdom destroys the last part of the image - the feet and toes - the last world power (kingdom).

Daniel 2:41-45

Finally, we are actually getting somewhere.

This rock (Jesus) will smash the Roman Empire’s Kingdom and extend the Kingdom of the mountain (Heavenly Kingdom to all of Earth) which went out to not only Babylon‘s Kingdom, but the whole earth, although this Kingdom is not of the earth, but a Spiritual Kingdom (Mount Zion), so it extends back to heaven.

"a Spiritual Kingdom (Mount Zion), so it extends back to heaven" ???
What does that mean?

The kingdom is in heaven. It is not a spiritual kingdom. It is a real tangible kingdom, with kings - real kings, ruling from the heaven. It also has a domain - the earth, and subjects to rule over.
It is a rulership, established by God... in the heavens.

As God is real, and Jesus is, the kingdom is also real. It rules from heaven, and rules over the earth. Revelation 5:10

Its rulers live in heaven, where Christ is, forever. Philippians 3:20

For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we are awaiting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ​

John 14:2-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Peter 1:3, 4

There is no issue understanding that the Kingdom of God (Kingdom of Heaven) last forever in heaven with the Kingdom of God here on earth being drawn back to heaven at the Judgment.

What does that mean???
Either the kingdom of God is in heaven, or it's not.
If you understand the basic truth that "the Kingdom of God (Kingdom of Heaven) last forever in heaven", from where did you get "the Kingdom of God here on earth", and "being drawn back to heaven at the Judgment"?

Do you realize that the kingdom ruled by Christ is new? Here we have the new heavens - New Jerusalem. Revelation 21:1, 2
God set up this kingdom in the hands of Christ, in order to accomplish his purpose. 1 Corinthians 15:20-28

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.​

Did you notice

• Christ delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power, and has put all enemies under His feet, the last enemy being destroyed is death.
• Once Christ accomplishes God's will, what does he do? When all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Mission accomplished!
for the administration of the fullness of the times, to bring together all things in Christ - the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth - in him. Ephesians 1:10

For these reasons, and the ones previously mentioned, it is clear that reading 2 Peter 3, and applying his words to the physical heavens and earth, is to make the mistake of ignoring that the use of heavens and earth in the Bible, are at times figurative.
Some examples were mentioned before, but there are others - Isaiah 65:17; Isaiah 51:15, 16; Isaiah 66:22; 2 Peter 3:7, 13; Revelation 20:11; Revelation 21:1

It is to also ignore all the scriptures in the Bible, that state clearly God's purpose for the earth, and his expressed will to accomplish that purpose, in his appointed time.

 

[bling]

@bling
Let's address each of your answers, one at a time.

You do not believe there are two resurrections, and that is contrary to the scriptures, which speak of the first resurrection, and then a subsequent resurrection. Revelation 20:4, 6; Revelation 20:12-15; Acts 24:15; John 5: 28, 29
How do you respond?

Did not see your edit so:

First off: Rev. 20

When trying to come to an agreement it is always wise to start with what they do agree on.

If you want to understand scripture it always helps to begin with the objective, since the objective should drive any teaching.

I do not think we agree on, man’s objective and how to get there, so we can complete the mission (Mission Statement).

Not agreeing on the objective (which drives everything), the why things happen will not be agreed on.

The “First Resurrection” talked about in Rev. 20. The best we can assume is there would be a second resurrection, since nothing is said specifically about the second.

The first resurrection is a small group of Jewish decent only 144,000 (just a big number of Jews) martyred for the cause which avoid the judgment and go to rule with Christ for a 1000 years (a long time period), the second resurrection is huge and everyone who has died immediately followed by the judgment.

These are the “souls” of those killed for the cause and they reign with Christ in heaven, but nothing about a physical body or reigning on earth.

You conveniently left out verse 5, Rev. 20:5…(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) We have only the Martyrs rising prior to and/or during the 1000 years.

The huge resurrection of everyone but the martyrs (since they are the first resurrection) go to judgment, but again not back to earth.

Not sure what you want from, Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

The dead go to judgment in heaven (the Spiritual realm).

Acts 24: 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

John 5: 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

OK, I believe everyone will rise and go to judgment, except the Martyrs will avoid judgment.

These verses are used to show there is no 1000 years in between the resurrection and judgment.

That point is settled then.
Since the first resurrection is for only those whom reign with Christ for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4), over whom the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years (Revelation 20:6), in heaven (Revelation 14:1-4), these are the ones that will be like the angels, as mentioned at Matthew 22:30

Your interpretation of “Matt. 22: 30 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” Makes Jesus out to be a liar since you’re saying: “Most people at the resurrection will marry and be given in marriage.”

You make it out that Jesus is just trying to mislead them, avoid their question by just addressing the issue for the few that rise to rule, so the question remains unanswered, where does Jesus mislead the religious leadership other places?

Your interpretation of Jesus’ answer, totally does not resolve the issue of Matt. 22:30. Jesus is not being asked about some specific person or specific resurrection but any people resurrected:

Matt. 22:23… the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection,… 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

This resurrection is not the same as the second resurrection, at Revelation 20:12-15, whom are "standing before the throne", considered "dead", and "judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds", some of whose "name was not found written in the book of life", and they are "thrown into the lake of fire".

All those who are resurrected to heaven, have their names written in the book of life, and are not subject to the second death.
Good. That's covered then.

Not sure what you think you are covering?

Rev. 20:5…(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

The answer is yes. The rational is irrelevant, as the promise is not never again will I use water, but "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done".
As I have done, refers to striking down every living creature on account of man.

Case closed on that as well.

Everything is burned up on earth with fire (not drowned in water), so how do the animals last through that?

Regarding the will and purpose of God, the threads title is, "The Purpose of the Earth".
The will and purpose that takes focus is not, whether God is saving man, or not, but what is God's purpose for the earth.
According to Ephesians 1:9-11 God's will and purpose involves this earth... from the very beginning.

9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He set forth in Him, 10 regarding His plan of the fullness of the times, to bring all things together in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. 11 In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will,​

That is also settled.

The earth is for mankind and not angel-kind beings, so do some mankind beings live forever on earth?

Finally...
1 John 2:17 says The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains (menó: To remain, to abide, to stay, to continue, to dwell, to endure) forever.
The NIV is a very unreliable translation.

This verse says when this world of mankind is removed by God, those doing God's will, are the ones that will remain.
Not only does this make sense, since the earth will not be empty, when God destroys all those in opposition to his will (Revelation 11:18), but it is in harmony with the scriptures, which clearly outlines God's purpose to have a small number of persons rule with Christ, over the earth. Revelation 7:1-3; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 5:9, 10

On Mount Zion, only 144,000 sealed ones are seen.
The great multitude are not on Mount Zion, which is heaven.
Rather, it is said of them...
Revelation 7:15-17

15 For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. 16 They will no longer hunger nor thirst, nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any scorching heat; 17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”​

This is the same group that is seen at Revelation 21:3, 4

3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men (anthrópos: Man, human, person, mankind), and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.​

This multitude - mankind - make up the new earth.

It was not God's purpose to place man on the earth, and then take them to heaven.
All the scriptures in the Bible, relate to God's original purpose, and fulfilling that purpose, which involves this earth, and making all things new. Revelation 21:5; Isaiah 65:17-25

Jesus, who is well aware of God's purpose, and fulfilling that purpose, for which he was sent, told his followers to pray for the kingdom to come, and God's will to be done on earth.
What will was Jesus referring to?
Jesus quoted from Psalm 37:11

What does that Psalm tell us, about God's will for the earth? We read...
For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the LORD, They shall inherit the earth.
For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place, But it shall be no more.
But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.


What does that mean?

Heaven is virtually an infinite size , and gravity is governed by God, so as the saved are in one place they will see the New Jerusalem coming down to them, like a huge space ship. It comes down so it is above us and all can see it, but now it joins us.

John very specifically says the 144,000 are Abraham’s descendants, not gentiles.

If those in heaven are like the angels, it is easy to understand why they would no longer sin, but if there is a huge group of like humans marrying, courting, having children to raise, and trying to “work” together, how will they keep from coveting and lusting?

So God has a kingdom, that is greater than all other kingdoms. Yes.
A kingdom is a rulership, or government. Do you agree?
Therefore God sets up his own rulership... where? In heaven. Yes?

Who is the king of God's rulership, or government in heaven? Why, it is Christ the king (Isaiah 9:6), and he rules with whom?
Ah. Now we are on point. The 144,000 heirs. Daniel 7:27; Revelation 14:1

What will the kingdom accomplish? Isaiah 9:7

Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.​

​

It is in an invisible dimension for us, a Kingdom without walls or boundaries.

The kingdom is in heaven. It is not a spiritual kingdom. It is a real tangible kingdom, with kings - real kings, ruling from the heaven. It also has a domain - the earth, and subjects to rule over.
It is a rulership, established by God... in the heavens.

As God is real, and Jesus is, the kingdom is also real. It rules from heaven, and rules over the earth. Revelation 5:10

Its rulers live in heaven, where Christ is, forever. Philippians 3:20

For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we are awaiting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ​

John 14:2-4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Peter 1:3, 4

There is a lot of verses, truisms, facts, unresolved contradictions, and alternative interpretations you are ignoring, so let us go through some:

• This is a Truism: these reward “promises” God makes to man are all contingent on man’s future behavior: Jer. 18: 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. When did a nation ever continue to “obey”? Since they did not than all these wonderful promises for the future will not happen.
• The 1000 years is just expressing a long time, but it is still finite, it will end at judgment, so this earth does not last forever. Mankind (human beings) exist, on earth only. Rev. 20:11… The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
• Judgment is in the Spiritual Realm, thus requiring some kind of Spiritual body (an angel like body is the way Jesus described it). Romans 14:10…For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, Rev. 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
• Bodies have been raised from the dead to earthly physical bodies made whole looking like what was in the grave, but earthly bodies were never restored to what was left in the grave 3000 years earlier and/or destroyed. Jesus specifically said people at the resurrection will be like the angels and nothing about some having earthly mankind-like bodies.
• Daniel 2:44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This specifically is telling us, when God’s heavenly Kingdom (at the time of these earthly kings) and it will last “Forever”. That cannot be an earthly kingdom, since there are no people around on earth after the 1000 year reign. Matt. 12: 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Jesus says right than the Kingdom of God has come. Mark 1:15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!” Luke 9:27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.” How can the kingdom of God come later if all have tasted death? Luke 17:20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, and Luke 17:21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” Again, Jesus is talking about a Spiritual Kingdom and not something physical you can see. John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” I see it, do you see it? Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, Matthew 10:7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’
• Contradiction not resolved are: Jesus said at the resurrection humans become like the angels to address the issue of who’s wife will a woman be at the resurrection. The 144,000 are only Jews, so the Gentile are not part of this small group. After the Judgment there would be no one to live on earth. The 1000-year reign idea does not fit the objective of humans. Only some people are given this much easier choice for eternal life, over those who refused God’s help and pursued the pleasures of sin while they were on earth. The Bible says specifically Revelation 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
• Everything is right in the Kingdom right now, which exists both in heaven and on earth, but not the whole physical earth, but as an invisible Spiritual Kingdom where those in the Spirit dwell (disciples living on earth).

From “Got Questions”:

Speaking to the rich young ruler, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (Matthew 19:23). In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (verse 24). Jesus makes no distinction between the two terms but seems to consider them synonymous.



Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” frequently in parallel accounts of the same parable. Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each instance, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases refer to the same thing.

 

[CoreyD]

@bling Sorry, I did not give you a second mention, so that you would see the update.
However, I am glad you noticed it

I'm not going to get into a discussion on the fact that the tribes of Israel are not literal Israel, since Paul already made that clear when he explained the Israel of God Galatians 6:16, and the 12 tribes mentioned in Revelation 7 aren't even the same as the literal Israel.
You can compare the two in your spare time.

What I will address are

1. 
   What Jesus said at Matthew 22:30
   Jesus at times spoke spiritual things that flew over the heads of his audience, because it was only for those with spiritual discernment - those to whom it was deserving.
   Two examples are
   Matthew 9:24 He said, “Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep.” And they began laughing at Him.
   John 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
   
   In both these cases, what Jesus said, can be taken as shocking, and persons may even say Jesus lied, when he said the gird did not die.
   However, the spiritual recognizes a spiritual saying.
   Jesus could say the girl is not dead, because of his view being spiritual.
   
   At Matthew 22:30, Jesus was referring to resurrection of his little flock. Not the resurrection of all mankind, whom he promised would be resurrected.
   This is hinted at, in the next verse...
   
   But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: Matthew 22:31​
   However, only the spiritual will grasp this, especially when they have all the pieces of scripture, in the right place.
   
   
2. 
   

   You conveniently left out verse 5, Rev. 20:5…(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) We have only the Martyrs rising prior to and/or during the 1000 years.

   Not a convenience.
   Just avoiding what will be another subject, and an argument that does not change the facts.
   
   However, since you believe it significant here, let's do it.
   

   The huge resurrection of everyone but the martyrs (since they are the first resurrection) go to judgment, but again not back to earth.

   Here, you gave your opinion, but I do not want an opinion.
   I would like the scripture that says this "huge resurrection of everyone but the martyrs" is not on earth.
   
   If you are going to repeat Matthew 22:30, don't bother, because 1) I explained that, and 2) they are not part of those who "will be priests of God and of Christ, and reign with Christ a thousand years" Revelation 20:4, 6.
   If you can scripturally prove that those who reign with Christ are not the 144,000 who are seen in heaven with the Lamb, and that these are distinct from the great multitude, then you have my attention.
   Otherwise, I would say, no argument thus far has addressed that fact.
   
   The facts are...
   1. The Kingdom has rulers - Christ and the 144,000. Revelation 7:1-3; Revelation 14:1-4
   2. The kingdom rules subjects, and these subjects are... p e o p l e - people; m e n - men - and they are... on earth. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 21:3, 4
   
   
3. 
   

   Not sure what you want from, Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
   
   The dead go to judgment in heaven (the Spiritual realm).

   What are you saying exactly?
   Dead people go to heaven? Is that what you are saying.... and it does not matter what they did and if they are unrighteous?
   This belief has no support in scripture.
   
   It raises a question though, so I need clarification.
   Earlier you said Christ’s physical body does not have to be next to you for you to be with Him.
   I take that to mean you don't believe one has to be in heaven to be with Jesus.
   Am I mistaken?
   Please clarify, because you seem to think before the throne, means in heaven. Is that the case?
   
   
4. 
   In response to...
   

   The answer is yes. The rational is irrelevant, as the promise is not never again will I use water, but "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done".
   As I have done, refers to striking down every living creature on account of man.
   
   Case closed on that as well.

   Everything is burned up on earth with fire (not drowned in water), so how do the animals last through that?

   Why are you stating that here?
   I don't see any connection between that statement, and what I said.
   
   God explicitly stated at Genesis 8:21...
   “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intent (strong inclination, desire) of man’s heart is wicked from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done."
   
   Scenarios...
   So, I am a heavy smoker, and I just came to the realization that I am damaging, or destroying my body, so I make an oath, a vow, a promise... Never again will I damage, or destroy my body, because I realize that life is valuable. ...and I will never smoke another cigarette.
   Ah. I know what I will do. I will pour gasoline all over my body, and light a match. Ha Ha.
   On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid would you rate me?
   If you say 10. I'm with you.
   
   God says, never again, will I curse the earth, on account of man, and never will I destroy every living thing, as I have done. ...never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
   Ah. I know what I will do. I will set the entire earth on fire... In fact, I will incinerate the whole thing, so that nothing - no living thing will last through that.
   On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid would that make God?
   
   If God were that stupid, he would not ask us to give reasonable (reasonable service) service. Romans 12:1
   Word Origin: Derived from λόγος (logos), meaning "word," "reason," or "logic."
   
   God wants us to be rational, beings. Not as the atheists would like to paint us.
   God says he will never curse the ground on account of man, and he says he will never destroy every living thing, as he did.
   God keeps his promises.
   
   All of what you said at the end, goes against Matthew 6:10, because Jesus did not tell his followers, When you pray, say, "Thy kingdom is here already, and therefore, we ask that your will be done on earth."
   Instead, Jesus said, ‘Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.'

The coming of the kingdom was future, and it did not come until after Jesus became king in heaven. When was that? Revelation 12:10

 

[Ben Leevey]

Scientists and Creationists alike, believe our planet earth will be destroyed.

Just a note, those two aren't absolutely contradictory.

I would believe that everything on earth will be destroyed. Not the earth itself. Then it will be refreshed into the new heavens and the new earth.

 

[CoreyD]

Just a note, those two aren't absolutely contradictory.

Based on the beliefs, they are.
Scientists do not believe God will destroy the earth that would continue to exist for a couple more million years. Some persons here do.
The Bible does not agree with either.

I would believe that everything on earth will be destroyed. Not the earth itself. Then it will be refreshed into the new heavens and the new earth.

Why would you believe that?

 

[Ben Leevey]

Based on the beliefs, they are.
Scientists do not believe God will destroy the earth that would continue to exist for a couple more million years. Some persons here do.
The Bible does not agree with either.

Some Scientists are Christians who read their Bibles carefully, and know that God will make the earth new.

Why would you believe that?

Because I know of nowhere in scripture where it says the earth will be utterly destroyed, I know of several places where the Bible says it will endure forever. I also know of places that speak of the new heavens and the new earth.

 

[bling]

I'm not going to get into a discussion on the fact that the tribes of Israel are not literal Israel, since Paul already made that clear when he explained the Israel of God Galatians 6:16, and the 12 tribes mentioned in Revelation 7 aren't even the same as the literal Israel.
You can compare the two in your spare time.

What I will address are

1. 
   What Jesus said at Matthew 22:30
   Jesus at times spoke spiritual things that flew over the heads of his audience, because it was only for those with spiritual discernment - those to whom it was deserving.
   Two examples are
   Matthew 9:24 He said, “Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep.” And they began laughing at Him.
   John 6:54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
   
   In both these cases, what Jesus said, can be taken as shocking, and persons may even say Jesus lied, when he said the gird did not die.
   However, the spiritual recognizes a spiritual saying.
   Jesus could say the girl is not dead, because of his view being spiritual.
   
   At Matthew 22:30, Jesus was referring to resurrection of his little flock. Not the resurrection of all mankind, whom he promised would be resurrected.
   This is hinted at, in the next verse...
   
   But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: Matthew 22:31​
   However, only the spiritual will grasp this, especially when they have all the pieces of scripture, in the right place.

First off the two examples are not examples of Jesus answering a group of Jewish Temple leaders.

Yes, Jesus does often answer the Pharisees, priests, elders, teachers of the Law, Sadducees and religious Jewish leadership in parables, figurative language, and riddles, but we, today can figure the answer out that fits the question to be the very best answer.

The very best answer to the Sadducee’s question about people resurrected would be the very answer Jesus gave, but that is only true if all those who are resurrected, rise with an angel-like body. If some go through the resurrection with human (mankind) like bodies, Jesus answer is misleading (a lie) at best, because they did not ask about “some people”, but everyone. What would your answer be for those who rise with human like bodies?

1. 
   
   
2. 
   
   Not a convenience.
   Just avoiding what will be another subject, and an argument that does not change the facts.
   
   However, since you believe it significant here, let's do it.
   
   Here, you gave your opinion, but I do not want an opinion.
   I would like the scripture that says this "huge resurrection of everyone but the martyrs" is not on earth.
   
   If you are going to repeat Matthew 22:30, don't bother, because 1) I explained that, and 2) they are not part of those who "will be priests of God and of Christ, and reign with Christ a thousand years" Revelation 20:4, 6.
   If you can scripturally prove that those who reign with Christ are not the 144,000 who are seen in heaven with the Lamb, and that these are distinct from the great multitude, then you have my attention.
   Otherwise, I would say, no argument thus far has addressed that fact.

This is not “my opinion”, I am just quote and restating what John said: Rev. 20:5…(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

The 144,000 (large number of martyrs) will rule in heaven, where they are.

1. 
   
   The facts are...
   1. The Kingdom has rulers - Christ and the 144,000. Revelation 7:1-3; Revelation 14:1-4
   2. The kingdom rules subjects, and these subjects are... p e o p l e - people; m e n - men - and they are... on earth. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 21:3, 4

The reason there are people on earth in the 1000 years (a long period of time) is because the resurrection and second coming of Christ has not happened. We are living on earth today part of that long period of time (the 1000 years).

1. 
   
   What are you saying exactly?
   Dead people go to heaven? Is that what you are saying.... and it does not matter what they did and if they are unrighteous?
   This belief has no support in scripture.
   
   It raises a question though, so I need clarification.
   Earlier you said Christ’s physical body does not have to be next to you for you to be with Him.
   I take that to mean you don't believe one has to be in heaven to be with Jesus.
   Am I mistaken?
   Please clarify, because you seem to think before the throne, means in heaven. Is that the case?

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. I think that is referring to the Spirit of God and Christ indwelling the person.

1. 
   
   God explicitly stated at Genesis 8:21...
   “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intent (strong inclination, desire) of man’s heart is wicked from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done."

Again we need to look at this phrase in the context:

20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[a] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.



22 “As long as the earth endures,

seedtime and harvest,

cold and heat,

summer and winter,

day and night

will never cease.”



God is talking to Noah who had just been through the flood, so saying this “As I have done” is in the context of the flood.

Further: The day and night, seeding and harvest, summer and winter, cold and heat, will last, “As long as the earth endures,”, so if the earth goes away these things go away.

Genesis 9:11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

Genesis 9:15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

God is specifically saying by water.

1. 
   Scenarios...
   So, I am a heavy smoker, and I just came to the realization that I am damaging, or destroying my body, so I make an oath, a vow, a promise... Never again will I damage, or destroy my body, because I realize that life is valuable. ...and I will never smoke another cigarette.
   Ah. I know what I will do. I will pour gasoline all over my body, and light a match. Ha Ha.
   On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid would you rate me?
   If you say 10. I'm with you.
   
   God says, never again, will I curse the earth, on account of man, and never will I destroy every living thing, as I have done. ...never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood; never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
   Ah. I know what I will do. I will set the entire earth on fire... In fact, I will incinerate the whole thing, so that nothing - no living thing will last through that.
   On a scale of 1 to 10, how stupid would that make God?
   
   If God were that stupid, he would not ask us to give reasonable (reasonable service) service. Romans 12:1
   Word Origin: Derived from λόγος (logos), meaning "word," "reason," or "logic."
   
   God wants us to be rational, beings. Not as the atheists would like to paint us.
   God says he will never curse the ground on account of man, and he says he will never destroy every living thing, as he did.
   God keeps his promises.
   
   All of what you said at the end, goes against Matthew 6:10, because Jesus did not tell his followers, When you pray, say, "Thy kingdom is here already, and therefore, we ask that your will be done on earth."
   Instead, Jesus said, ‘Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.'

The coming of the kingdom was future, and it did not come until after Jesus became king in heaven. When was that? Revelation 12:10

I said before: the Kingdom comes with the indwelling Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Jesus is in the Kingdom, but it has not come to everyone.

 

[CoreyD]

Some Scientists are Christians who read their Bibles carefully, and know that God will make the earth new.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you said.

those two [Scientists and Creationists alike, believe our planet earth will be destroyed.] aren't absolutely contradictory.

The Scientists who are Christian, that read their Bible carefully, and know that God will make the earth new, indeed do not believe our planet earth will be destroyed.
Perhaps you are trying to point out then, that not all scientists believe our planet earth will be destroyed, and not all Creationists believe our planet earth will be destroyed.
That is true.

Because I know of nowhere in scripture where it says the earth will be utterly destroyed, I know of several places where the Bible says it will endure forever.

I am glad to know tht you are aware of this.
Some persons are arguing that since forever is not always used in the definite sense, but can be indefinite, all those text are referring to an indefinite period, and not eternity.
In other words, rather than the heavens and earth being figurative, in the single text of 2 Peter 3, all the multiple places where forever is used in reference to the earth, refer not to forever in the definite, but indefinite.

While that is interesting, considering that the scriptures are what determines when, forever is used in the definite sense, and not we ourselves, that argument has no basis on which to stand, as I have pointed out, in a few posts.

I also know of places that speak of the new heavens and the new earth.

Yes, there is also Revelation 21:5, which says God is making all things new.
So, if your understanding is that God is renewing the face of the earth, with a new human society, that will indeed make the face of the earth new, then we have the same understanding.

If however, you are saying that to make the earth and heavens new, God has to scorch them, I am asking, why... why do you believe God has to burn the physical heavens and earth, with fire, in order to make them new?

 

[CoreyD]

First off the two examples are not examples of Jesus answering a group of Jewish Temple leaders.

Yes, Jesus does often answer the Pharisees, priests, elders, teachers of the Law, Sadducees and religious Jewish leadership in parables, figurative language, and riddles, but we, today can figure the answer out that fits the question to be the very best answer.

The very best answer to the Sadducee’s question about people resurrected would be the very answer Jesus gave, but that is only true if all those who are resurrected, rise with an angel-like body. If some go through the resurrection with human (mankind) like bodies, Jesus answer is misleading (a lie) at best, because they did not ask about “some people”, but everyone. What would your answer be for those who rise with human like bodies?

I gave you a very clear answer.
Your response was basically that you decided whom Jesus answers in parables, figurative language, and riddles, but that is not for us to decide.
The scriptures make it clear that what you said is not true. Matthew 13:34-26

Also, If you are saying that for Jesus to speak spiritual things, that his audience would not grasp, is for Jesus to be misleading, or to lie, then would that not mean that Jesus misled the crowds that followed him - John 6:54, and he lied to the crowds that were "mourning" the parent's loss of their little girl?
We have to be consistent here.

This is not “my opinion”, I am just quote and restating what John said: Rev. 20:5…(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

The 144,000 (large number of martyrs) will rule in heaven, where they are.

The statement ""huge resurrection of everyone but the martyrs" is not on earth" is not in any scripture, so that would make it your opinion, would it not?
Revelation 20:5 reads, as you quoted it.
That does not say ""huge resurrection of everyone but the martyrs" is not on earth".
In parenthesis, it says (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

You assume that there will be a physical resurrection to heaven. The verse does not say that.
I hope you did not have in mind an imaginary place other than heaven where these will be resurrected. That too would be an opinion.

The Bible does not in any passage refer to heavenly life for any other than the ones who will rule as kings and priests with Christ... for the 1,000 years, so to assume that God has a place in heaven for persons he will resurrect after 1,000 years is to give an opinion.

The dead, do not have to refer to those physically dead, and their coming to life, does not have to refer to physical resurrection.
You would know this from scripture. Ephesians 2:1-7
you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins

I did not ant to get into this, because, we are discussing a fairly simple topic, in my opinion, and there are a lot of arguments against it. This would only add more arguments, but as we are at this point... Let's do it.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

• How can the dead stand?
• How can the dead be judged?

How would you answer those questions?
To me, it is quite simple. The dead refer to those who are not made alive in righteousness.
These would be the unrighteous who are resurrected, as Jesus put it... to a resurrection of judgment John 5:29. Hence, they are judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
This is why they are standing before the throne... during the 1,000 year judgment of the Christ, and his 144,000 judges.

The reason there are people on earth in the 1000 years (a long period of time) is because the resurrection and second coming of Christ has not happened. We are living on earth today part of that long period of time (the 1000 years).

When did the 1,000 years rule of Christ begin?
At that time, the Devil is bound... "so that he does not mislead the nations any longer... until... the 1,000 years were ended.
When was the Devil bound so that he does not mislead anyone?

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. I think that is referring to the Spirit of God and Christ indwelling the person.

Are you saying then tat one does not have to be in heaven to be with Jesus?
That is what I am seeking to clarify.

The other question, I also am looking for an answer.
What are you saying exactly?
Dead people go to heaven? Is that what you are saying.... and it does not matter what they did and if they are unrighteous?

I know it has no support in scripture, but I still would like to know if that is what you believe.

Again we need to look at this phrase in the context:

20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though[a] every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.



22 “As long as the earth endures,

seedtime and harvest,

cold and heat,

summer and winter,

day and night

will never cease.”



God is talking to Noah who had just been through the flood, so saying this “As I have done” is in the context of the flood.

Further: The day and night, seeding and harvest, summer and winter, cold and heat, will last, “As long as the earth endures,”, so if the earth goes away these things go away.

Genesis 9:11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

Genesis 9:15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

God is specifically saying by water.

I though my analogy would be enough.

Are you trying to say that the purpose for God making the promise is that... 1) God hates water. 2) The water was too cruel. 3) Other (please state)?
Was God's purpose for making the promise, not because of all the life that was wiped off the earth, on account of sinful man, whose heart is wicked?

The reason the man quit smoking cigars was why?
He did not want to harm his body.
I think I should repeat that.
The reason the man quit smoking cigars was because he did not want to harm his body.
Therefore, to use something other than cigars... like fire, which is even more destructive... not to mention, quicker, would be foolish... as if the man were completely senseless.

The reason God promised not to use a flood to destroy man, was because he did not want to harm or destroy every living thing on account of wicked men.
Therefore, to use fire instead of water, to do what he promised not to do, would be as if God has absolutely no sense.

I think this is elementary bling.
Why is it giving you trouble? Are you giving it thought?

I said before: the Kingdom comes with the indwelling Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Jesus is in the Kingdom, but it has not come to everyone.

The Bible says otherwise. Revelation 12:10
The Revelation given John was some fifty years after Pentecost, and those prophecies were for the future. Revelation 1:1-3; Revelation 22:10

The kingdom has not come, indeed, because it has not taken over rulership of the earth, but Jesus did become king, as John says, at the blowing of the seventh trumpet. Revelation 11:15-18

 

[Ben Leevey]

Perhaps you are trying to point out then, that not all scientists believe our planet earth will be destroyed, and not all Creationists believe our planet earth will be destroyed.

I am mostly pointing out that the earth as we know it will be destroyed, judging from scripture. Not that the globe will be annihilated, but the face of it will be wiped clean and renewed.

If however, you are saying that to make the earth and heavens new, God has to scorch them, I am asking, why... why do you believe God has to burn the physical heavens and earth, with fire, in order to make them new?

I don't so much believe He has to, as I believe He says he will.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Scientists and Creationists alike, believe our planet earth will be destroyed.

Spoiler: Scientists View

Today, the sun is an essential source of gravity and energy. But one day, it will cause Earth's demise. As the solar system's central star ages, its life cycle will eventually consume our blue marble.

So how long does Earth have until the planet is swallowed by the sun? Expected time of death: several billion years from now. But life on Earth will end much, much sooner than that.

Earth will become unlivable for most organisms in about 1.3 billion years due to the sun's natural evolution, experts told Live Science. And humans could potentially drive ourselves (and countless other species) to extinction within the next few centuries, if the current pace of human-made climate change isn't mitigated, or as a consequence of nuclear war.
Today, the sun is an essential source of gravity and energy. But one day, it will cause Earth's demise. As the solar system's central star ages, its life cycle will eventually consume our blue marble.

Source: How long will Earth exist?

Creationists use 2 Peter 3:5-7 as the basis for their belief that our planet earth will be destroyed.

What does the Bible say about planet earth, and it's purpose?
God created the earth for mankind to live on. To be man's dwelling place - their home.
Isaiah 45:18


Psalm 115:16


Has God changed his mind about his purpose, for the earth?
God answers:
I, the LORD, do not change. Malachi 3:6
The righteous will inherit the earth and dwell in it forever. Psalm 37:29

Has God decided that planet earth is too bad to live on, and so decides to totally destroy it?
God answers:
A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. Ecclesiastes 1:4
He built His sanctuary like the heights, like the earth He has established forever. Psalm 78:69
He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever. Psalm 104:5

Thus, the earth remains forever, and righteous mankind will inhabit it, forever.
God's purpose for the earth will be a reality.

What will conditions be like on the earth, when the righteous inherit it?

From a study last year in response to the doomsayers.
The Earth Is The Lord's Servant

Psalm 119:
90 Your faithfulness endures to all generations;
You established the earth, and it abides.
91 They continue this day according to Your ordinances,
For all are Your servants.

The earth and all that pertains unto it continues according to the ordinances of God.
Everything exists and will continue to abide at His pleasure.
Regardless of what you hear about how the earth will be destroyed and life as we know it will end,
the earth will abide until the Lord decides otherwise, for the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.

Revelation 11:18 The nations were angry,
and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants
the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.

God’s Covenant with Creation
Genesis 8:
20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal
and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart,
“I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination
of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
22 While the earth remains,
Seed time and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”

 

[CoreyD]

I am mostly pointing out that the earth as we know it will be destroyed, judging from scripture. Not that the globe will be annihilated, but the face of it will be wiped clean and renewed.

I don't so much believe He has to, as I believe He says he will.

Okay, so you understand 2 Peter 3 to be saying the earth - that is, every living thing - plants, animals, and humans, will be destroyed, by fire.
Do I understand you correctly?

What about the heavens... do you believe the heavens with all the stars, planets and so forth, will all be destroyed, or only their surfaces wiped clean?

 

[CoreyD]

From a study last year in response to the doomsayers.
The Earth Is The Lord's Servant

Psalm 119:
90 Your faithfulness endures to all generations;
You established the earth, and it abides.
91 They continue this day according to Your ordinances,
For all are Your servants.

The earth and all that pertains unto it continues according to the ordinances of God.
Everything exists and will continue to abide at His pleasure.
Regardless of what you hear about how the earth will be destroyed and life as we know it will end,
the earth will abide until the Lord decides otherwise, for the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.

Revelation 11:18 The nations were angry,
and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants
the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.

God’s Covenant with Creation
Genesis 8:
20 Then Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every clean animal
and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart,
“I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination
of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
22 While the earth remains,
Seed time and harvest,
Cold and heat,
Winter and summer,
And day and night
Shall not cease.”

Thank you, but the earth is doomed according to those who believe God has no purpose for it.
Which in my opinion, is very sad, considering that numerous scriptures say otherwise.
Good scriptures though. Not that they weren't already shown here.

 

[Ben Leevey]

Okay, so you understand 2 Peter 3 to be saying the earth - that is, every living thing - plants, animals, and humans, will be destroyed, by fire.
Do I understand you correctly?

What about the heavens... do you believe the heavens with all the stars, planets and so forth, will all be destroyed, or only their surfaces wiped clean?

To my understanding it will be a purging of the effects of sin, so, junk in space, a result of the fall, and all of Musk's satellites, yes, to my understanding. But the whole planets destroyed... that would contradict several scriptures (which I can put out if you like).
Now, this issue is quite secondary.