The Purpose of the Earth

[bling]

Earlier, you said, one does not have to be in heaven to be with Jesus.
So, I think you really mean, you just want to go to heaven.

To live is Christ and to die is gain. There are people I still need to work with while here on earth and Christ in the form of the indwelling Holy Spirit is with me, now.

That has been drilled into our head, from the time we could say "DaDa," "Mama".
So many people, like yourself, have their heart set on heaven.

Some people... millions of them, are happy with the gift God holds out to those who are righteous... wherever that may be.
Whether heaven or earth, they know that they will be part of God's universal family. One family under God. 1 Corinthians 15:28

Jesus sais, it is the meek that will inherit the earth Matthew 5:5, and those who are chosen as sons in heaven, have to be faithful even when facing death, in order to receive the crown of life. Revelation 2:10

A meek person is easily imposed on; submissive, and humble.
So that they are content with what they are given.
Would you be happy to live on an earth free of wicked people, free of suffering and death, where everyone loves God and neighbor, and are united under God's rule?


Just what the Bible says...

• An earth where God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:3, 4
• An earth where no inhabitant will say, “I am sick”; the people who dwell there will be forgiven their iniquity. Isaiah 33:24
• An earth where the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there. But the meek shall inherit the earth/land and delight themselves in abundant peace. Psalm 37:10, 11
• An earth where the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow will graze near the bear. The cub and the calf will lie down together. The lion will eat hay like a cow. The infant will play by the cobra’s den, and the toddler will reach into the viper’s nest. Isaiah 11:6-9 Imagine not seeing animals tear other animals to pieces. I look forward to that.
• An earth where the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind. No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, but they shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of these people be, and they shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity. The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt or destroy. Isaiah 65:17-21

...and more.

Why do you feel Deity has not made a home in you yet?

Does the earth go away after the 1000 year reign?

Why is Christ not on His Kingdom thrown now and that Kingdom extending to me on earth right now?

If these people during the 1000 year reign are sexual beings, how is a mate sellected and can they have children?

What scripture are you using to support the idea, human like beings coming forth out of the grave?

To disappear and appear somewhere else isn't omnipresent, though. The angels do that.
Be back later.

But it was something Christ did after the resurrection He did not do before the resurrection.

 

[CoreyD]

I explained this before: the Kingdom came on Pentecost and God “will” which we also agree with is happening on earth right now, but man is not accepting God’s help.

I did not agree to this.
Please show me the scripture that says God's will is for man not to accept his help.

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven, cannot refer to what you are saying, because, the will on earth is in conjunction with the will in heaven - "as it is in heaven".
The will therefore is the same as Ephesians 1:10, and relates to the time when peace would exist worldwide, as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom did not come at Pentecost, and his will is not being done on earth.
The Abrahamic promise is not yet fulfilled. Genesis 22:18

What you have done, is selected a will, an decided that that is the will Jesus refers to, but doing so would be to ignore the context, as well as the overall message, and scriptures related to God's purpose.

 

[bling]

The reason you do not know, is because the scriptures do not tell you this. You simply stated what you believe, with no evidence at all that it is true.
No scripture in the Bible says that Jesus and the thief went to paradise.
Can you find one?

Yes! The New King James Version

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Even if you put the comma after “today”, Jesus is still saying the thief who was about to die would be with Jesus in Paradise.

You found one “scholar” who seems to support your idea the comma goes after “today”, but there is more to it.

 

[CoreyD]

OK, but that does not have to be on earth.

It is not on earth. None of those scriptures refer to earth.
I seem to have lost you. Did I?

Christ selected persons to rule with him, but Christ did not decide that every righteous person would rule. He chose a small number. Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6
These are the Saints.

The small number rule in heaven... in God's kingdom.
The kingdom is in heaven. Not on earth. Daniel 2:44
It is called the “kingdom of the heavens“ 32 times in the Gospel of Matthew.
The kingdom rules the earth. Daniel 7:13, 14; Revelation 5:9, 10

It takes time going verse by verse showing more likely alternative interpretationsand/ or how the verse does not support your conclusion.

The big assumption you make is assuming all these verses have to do with some 1000 year reign here on earth after people are raised from the dead and Christ comes back.

All what verses?
Please point out the verses, which you believe I made assumptions about.
I believe you will find that no assumptions were made, I merely quoted the scriptures that support the point, or statements I made.
That is not assuming.

Why would those in the grave meet Christ in the air if Christ is just going to bring them to earth?

You are right. That does not make any sense at all.
Would you please show me what you are responding to exactly, that would lead you to conclude that's what I am saying?

OK Dan. 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed…. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

This certainly does not have to happen on earth and can start with the Kingdom coming on Pentecost.

What do you mean certainly does not have to happen on earth?
Can you tell me what verse 14 is saying.

 

[CoreyD]

Yes! The New King James Version

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Does that scripture say that Jesus and the thief went to paradise?
No. It does not say that, does it. Jesus made a promise.
You are making an assumption.

Even if you put the comma after “today”, Jesus is still saying the thief who was about to die would be with Jesus in Paradise.

I have no quarrel with that. That is scripture.

You found one “scholar” who seems to support your idea the comma goes after “today”, but there is more to it.

What more is there to it?

 

[CoreyD]

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

We, today, are to be that Kingdom of Priests worshipping 24/7 and thus the true rulers of this world. The Spiritual Kingdom is the only Kingdom which matters. Rev. 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

God has the power and wisdom to fully accomplish everything God set out to accomplish, so it is not God’s fault.

It is not “God trying to accomplish something and “failing” the first time, thus needing a second try, it is man who fails to fulfill man’s earthly objective in the Garden (God would know this, but Adam and Eve went through this to show them and us that the Garden is a lousy place to fulfill our objective).

That is not even scriptural, but if you want to believe, so be it.

“All things” are not everything that exist (evil stuff would not be included), but “all things” in Christ, which have now been united in heaven and on our earth. The Kingdom extends from the thrown of God in heaven all the way down to individual Christians on earth.

I don't see how that relates to Ephesians 1:10.
The point is, God having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.

The point is, God's will involves this earth.
Do you accept that?
If not, why not?

Not everyone accepts the opportunity to be a child of God, but that is true today.

2 Peter 3: 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

So, you agree the earth will exist, and people will be on it.
Will the heavenly ones come back down to earth, like you were asking a moment ago?

So does that mean no one goes to hell and/or everyone has a second change during the 1000 years?

The Bible says everyone goes to Hades.
The Bible says Hades gives up the dead, and Jesus said this will be. Revelation 20:13; John 5:28, 29
Jesus spoke of the Ninevites, Sodomites, those of Tyre and Sidon, who will rise in the judgment, and paul says the unrighteous will all get a resurrection. Acts 24:15

So, sure enough, the scriptures are telling us that the unrighteous get a second chance.
The millions who died without having a chance to know Christ, and decide to serve God, will all return to life on earth, to get that chance, and they will not have Satan around, nor sin, to interfere with their learning. Revelation 20:1-3
they will also have 1,000 years to reach the level of perfection God wants his children to reach.

Scripture supports the truth, but they are not supporting your conclusion, as I have shown there are other more likely interpretations.
continued below:

What conclusion does the scriptures not support.
Please list them. Let's discuss it.

 

[bling]

With what body did Jesus resurrect Lazarus? It was a physical body, wasn't it.
What body will an unrighteous person be resurrected with? An earthly body, isn't it? John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:12
Since the righteous do not all go to heaven, but will be right here on earth, they need earthly bodies, don't they. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; John 11:24; Revelation 21:3, 4

Yes, there were some bodily resurrections, these are prior to “The Resurrection”, Jesus talked about and the other writers wrote about. These body resurrections happened shortly after death and are not “The Resurrection” we are talking about and to exist for very long on earth you might need an earthly body.

Rev. 20:11… The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. How are you interpreting that?

Rev. 20: 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

This “thrown” is not here on earth so can physical flesh stand before the thrown of God?

There is nothing saying anything about the risen having physical bodies.

John 5: 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Dan. 7: 14… His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

This everlasting dominion is not talking about the 1000 year reign, because it lasts 1000 years, but the Spiritual Kingdom we have now and forever.

Dan, 7: 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

Again, this is the Spiritual Kingdom in existence right now, the earthly “kingdoms” are powerless against the Spiritual Kingdom.

John 11:24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.

There is nothing about a bodily resurrection, in fact they can “die”, the physical body can die, but they will continue to live (something other than what died.

Rev. 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, “for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

This “New heaven and earth” are not the old heaven and earth, since it passed away! But are you not saying the “New heaven and Earth are the sane earth we live on today?

Rev. 21: 2 … I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

This is not saying it descended to our old earth since that “earth past away”.

Rev. 21: 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

This is to last “forever”, but the 1000 year reign does not last forever and there are bad people during the 1000 year reign, but there are no bad people in the New Jerusalem?

Jesus does not say there is any difference in what rises from the grave: good and evil they “hear and come out”. Those completely burned up or totally rooted away will hear and come out. There will be nothing physically left in the grave of some, so it has to be a “new body” for both?

I’m only addressing the “bodies” resurrected which Jesus and Paul talked about at “The Resurrection

The choice to obey God, or not, yes. Revelation 20:12-15

There are no refusers in the New Jerusalem, so how can there be a choice?

If a person choses not to accept (or obey), what are they choosing to do in the 1000 years and after?

Concerning those who go to heaven to reign with Christ for the 1,000 years, the scriptures say...
Philippians 3:20, 21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:49, 50
And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does decay inherit immortality.

There are others. Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 5:1-5
Those adopted sons Ephesians 1:5 - heirs of the kingdom James 2:5, are not we.
Ephesians 1:5 - He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Paul was speaking to the Church - the body of Christ, who make up the little flock, the Father took delight to give the kingdom.

I am only asking about these “people” in the 1000 year reign, since I see this talking about all the saved.

These are not the multitude, that is mentioned at Revelation 7:9, who were not sealed for heavenly adoption, as those mentioned in Revelation 7:1-4.

What do you mean “not sealed for adoption”, because John specifically tells us who they are: Rev. 7: 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”



14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”



And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,



“they are before the throne of God

and serve him day and night in his temple;

and he who sits on the throne

will shelter them with his presence.

16 ‘Never again will they hunger;

never again will they thirst.

The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]

nor any scorching heat.

17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne

will be their shepherd;

‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’

‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”

Rev. 7: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

But there is no sea in the New Jerusalem, so this cannot be the same place?

These are not the multitude, that is mentioned at Revelation 7:9, who were not sealed for heavenly adoption, as those mentioned in Revelation 7:1-4.

Those living on earth will not have spiritual bodies, but they will be flesh, just like the animals. 1 Corinthians 15:39-41

So let us go back to the answer Jesus gave when asked about the marital status of the woman married legally to seven brothers. Jesus said at the resurrection they are no longer sexual being but like the angels, but you are saying after the resurrection there are people that are not angel like, but human like so they are sexual, which contradicts Jesus’ argument, so did Jesus mislead (lie to) the Sadducees? What should the answer be for those in the 1000 year reign?

You are leaving out the answer by jumping to 1 Cor. 15:39, Paul gives the answer just prior: 1 Cor. 15: 35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.

The person asking is asking about all people, Paul saying: “What you sow does not come to life unless it dies”, does not just apply to Christians, but everyone who dies.

Where did you get this from? Please provide the scripture.

It is hard to find scripture on what is happening in your understanding of the 1000 year reign, since there is none.

So, you think the purpose for God creating the earth, is as a testing ground, to get a ticket to heaven?

WOW! Not at all!!! We are here to humbly accept God’s pure undeserving charity, so we will Love like He Loves and then Love others. (Luke 7)

It is more like a learning opportunity, to see if we want or do not want to be Loved and to Love.

.

We have no scripture suggesting the angels previously existed in an earth like situation, so if they did start out in heaven they were created beings sinless to begin with, which does present some problems. The biggest issue is with obtaining, initially Godly type Love, how can they do that? All mature humans while on earth will sin so, they can humbly accept God’s forgiveness as pure undeserved charity and thus automatically Love much (Luke 7), but in heaven there are no likely alternatives to accepting God’s forgiveness, so it is like having a gun to your head (not a real choice). Godly type Love is not an instinctive Love/robotic nor can it be forced on a being and still be Godly type Love. You must want to be Loved unselfishly and want to be able to Love others unselfishly. It looks like a third of the angels did not want this.

What is the difference between heaven and earth, when it comes to sinning?

Earth is the very best place for mature adult humans to obtain Godly type Love and grow that Love.

Everyone being a sexless being in heaven, eliminates the conflict in obtaining a mate, since you do not have a mate.

The only gifts one person in heaven has over another person is the amount of Love they have, but that just means they Love you more than you Love them back, so nothing to envy.

I do not see your Father God holding anything back from you in heaven, so what is there to covet.

Satan the tempter is not there, and you have experienced him and know the result.

You have sinned and know the result.

There is no tree of knowledge to tempt you.

Right now, we Have the Spirit at our elbow literally, but we do not see Spiritual beings all the time and can easily quench the Spirit, but with our new Spiritual bodies we will see the Spirit at our elbow and would have to push Him away to sin.

You have an excellent realization of what it is to be God (a huge sacrificial Love), so since He loves you, what would you gain by taking His place? While on earth we might covet the leader’s power and position, but how could you covet “Love”?

Some persons think there will be a resurrection after the 1,000 years, but based on the scriptures, this cannot be true, since the first resurrection is for the Saints - 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Revelation 20:4, 6.The second resurrection takes place in the hour during the 1,000 years. John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:12-14
Judgment occurs during the 1,000 years. not after. John 5:29

You are too fixated on heaven, but I understand. It was drilled into my head from a young age too, but I did not hold on to it, since the scriptures said something quite different to what the church teaches.

I am fixated on Christ and God no matter where I am. Your description of this 1000 year reign place, lacks the huge benefits of heaven and this earth now. What happens to the indwelling Holy Spirit during this 1000 year reign? What is my objective and how do I fulfill that objective over the 1000 years?

That was in reference to rulership. The kingdom of God, which Christ will hand over to his father, after he has accomplished everything, and God will rule both heaven and earth.
That is in Ephesians 1:10



I hope you got the point.
God gives each a body accordingly.
So, those resurrected to heaven will get the appropriate body - a spirit body.
those resurrected to earth will get a human body - earthly.

Do these people resurrected with a “human body”, ever get a Spiritual body and how and when does that happen?

 

[bling]

Based on what I have mentioned previously, just take verse 49, and ask one question... Whom is Paul addressing here?

The whole New Testament is addressed to Christians, but most, if not all, would apply to all people: “So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.” That is everyone is it not?

“The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable”, is that not true of all people?

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So answer me this “do sinful people have a “natural body”, because if they do they must have a Spiritual body, by Paul’s own words?

“The first man was of the dust of the earth” is Adam not the first man for everyone?

“As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth”, everyone is dust from the earth to begin with are they not?

“And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.” Everyone has “borne the image of the earthly man”, so we all will, “bear the image of the heavenly man” who is a spiritual not just earthly being. So even the wicked have a spiritual body that will go to hell, but their physical body of dust from the earthly man returns to dust.

I'll help.
Post #29
God arranged for a kingdom - a heavenly government - to be ruled by his only begotten, who will rule over the earth, after destroying all other kingdoms, and restore the earth to the state God wills it - a paradise. Man's home, where sin and death will be gone forever. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Christ selected persons to rule with him, but Christ did not decide that every righteous person would rule. He chose a small number. Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6
These are the Saints.

They will rule with Christ, and be priests and judges with him, for the thousand years. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 5:9, 10

Post #51
Those adopted sons Ephesians 1:5 - heirs of the kingdom James 2:5, are not we.
Ephesians 1:5 - He predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Paul was speaking to the Church - the body of Christ, who make up the little flock, the Father took delight to give the kingdom. These are not the multitude, that is mentioned at Revelation 7:9, who were not sealed for heavenly adoption, as those mentioned in Revelation 7:1-4.

This is addressed in my last post.

So that this is not lost...
Questions:
Do you agree that at Hebrews 12:22 Mount Zion refers to heaven?

yes

Do you agree that at Revelation 14:1, the number of persons seen in heavenly Mount Zion, is 144,000?

It is not to be taken as a literal number, but a large number.

Do you agree that at Revelation 7:4 those sealed number 144,000, and that number contrasts with the great multitude too large to count, or that no one could number, mentioned at Revelation 7:9?

NO.

The 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel, is just the 12,000 from each tribe, but still only representing a large number not to be taken literally. Rev. 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

The multitude came after looking at the 144,000.

Do you agree that the number sealed and seen in heaven, are small in comparison to the multitude?

These “sealed were only from the tribes of Israel”.

Do you agree that one does not have to be in heaven to be standing before the throne and before the Lamb?

No, because look at John’s description of the “Multitude” :

Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”



14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”



And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,



“they are before the throne of God

and serve him day and night in his temple;

and he who sits on the throne

will shelter them with his presence.

16 ‘Never again will they hunger;

never again will they thirst.

The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]

nor any scorching heat.

17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne

will be their shepherd;

‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’

‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”

Would that not fit a wonderful description of a Disciple?

Are you trying to suggest that some of these were not heavenly beings?

ὅραμα - horama, is translated vision in the 12 occurrences where it is found in the Greek scriptures.
Matthew 17:9 N-ANS
GRK: εἴπητε τὸ ὅραμα ἕως οὗ
NAS: them, saying, Tell the vision to no one
KJV: Tell the vision to no man,
INT: tell the vision until that

Acts 7:31 N-ANS
GRK: ἐθαύμαζεν τὸ ὅραμα προσερχομένου δὲ
NAS: it, he marveled at the sight; and as he approached
KJV: [it], he wondered at the sight: and
INT: marveled at the vision coming near moreover

Are you saying Moses did not literally see a burning bush?

Acts 9:10 N-DNS
GRK: αὐτὸν ἐν ὁράματι ὁ κύριος
NAS: said to him in a vision, Ananias.
KJV: the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And
INT: him in a vision the Lord

Acts 9:12 N-DNS
GRK: ἄνδρα ἐν ὁράματι Ἁνανίαν ὀνόματι
NAS: and he has seen in a vision a man
KJV: hath seen in a vision a man named
INT: a man in a vision Ananias by name

Acts 10:3 N-DNS
GRK: εἶδεν ἐν ὁράματι φανερῶς ὡσεὶ
NAS: saw in a vision an angel
KJV: He saw in a vision evidently about
INT: He saw in a vision plainly as if

Acts 10:17 N-NNS
GRK: εἴη τὸ ὅραμα ὃ εἶδεν
NAS: as to what the vision which
KJV: what this vision which
INT: might be the vision which he was

Acts 10:19 N-GNS
GRK: περὶ τοῦ ὁράματος εἶπεν αὐτῷ
NAS: was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit
KJV: thought on the vision, the Spirit said
INT: over the vision said to him

Acts 11:5 N-ANS
GRK: ἐν ἐκστάσει ὅραμα καταβαῖνον σκεῦός
NAS: I saw a vision, an object
KJV: I saw a vision, A certain
INT: in a trance a vision descending a vessel

Acts 12:9 N-ANS
GRK: ἐδόκει δὲ ὅραμα βλέπειν
NAS: but thought he was seeing a vision.
KJV: thought he saw a vision.
INT: he thought moreover a vision he was seeing

Acts 16:9 N-NNS
GRK: καὶ ὅραμα διὰ τῆς
NAS: A vision appeared to Paul
KJV: And a vision appeared to Paul
INT: And a vision during the

Acts 16:10 N-ANS
GRK: δὲ τὸ ὅραμα εἶδεν εὐθέως
NAS: he had seen the vision, immediately
KJV: he had seen the vision, immediately
INT: moreover the vision he saw immediately

Acts 18:9 N-GNS
GRK: νυκτὶ δι' ὁράματος τῷ Παύλῳ
NAS: in the night by a vision, Do not be afraid
KJV: the night by a vision, Be not
INT: night by a vision to Paul

Do you think the scholarly view is unacceptable in this instance?
Twelve scriptural "witnesses" all testify to ὅραμα - horama, as referring to seeing a vision.
Do you accept their testimony.

They are not saying the three only saw a vision in their minds. So

NO!!! not using your interpretation of “vision” to only mean something never literally seen.

3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

So Matt should have used horáō if he wanted “to see with your mind”.

Can you show me one place in scripture where a vision was seen by multiple views at the same time and place. Three or more witnessing it means it really happened.

 

[bling]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. can you please explain.
What does what David wrote have to do with the fact that God's purpose has not yet come to realization, because Adam sinned, and plunged the human race into sin and death?

Why do you feel God did not realize Adam would sin?

Why did God not do something to keep Adam from sinning?

Will Adam have a second chance in your 1000 year reign?

Scripture please.

We can get into a long list of scripture and discussions on predestination and foreknowledge, so I was interested in where you are coming from?

Knowing what little I know about human nature, I could still have told God, Adam and Eve will sin in the garden scenario.

John 8:28
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.

John 5:19, 30
19 So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.
30 I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 12:49
I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.

John 15:8-10
8 This is to My Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, proving yourselves to be My disciples.
9 As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love.
10 If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.

Please answer the following questions using scriptures only.

• How did the Word - the only begotten son, attain unbreakable love for his father?

Jesus is Eternal Deity, not a created being, so He did not have to obtain Godly type, but always had it.

• Was the Word - the only begotten son taught?

No, He has neither beginning nor end.

• Did the Word - the only begotten son get to know his father better than anyone?

Again, Deity does not need to “learn” anything since Deity knows already.

• Did the Word - the only begotten son remain in his father's love, because he obeyed the father out of love?

“If you Love me you will obey me”.

Who better, to explain God. John 1:18
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.
If the Word - the only begotten son of God - learned, and his love grew, what about humankind... Would they not have to learn about God, and grow in love for him?

Where does it say: Christ learned something new about God? We are in time and limited by time, but Christ existed with God, before time began.

This is why the Word became flesh, so that he could John 18:37
Jesus answered. “For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth.

We learn about God from Jesus being here with us, but God and Christ are “one”, Christ does exactly what God would do in human form.

Can you provide a scripture please. Where did you read in the Bible, that God raised (programmed) Adam and Eve to adulthood?

God is their Father and parents have the responsibility to raise their children to adulthood. How did Adam “learn” to walk, talk, feed himself, name animals and so on?

Those living after Adam,

1. have seen the love of God, and appreciating how great that love is, respond to it, and love God in return 1 John 4:7-11, 16-19. They make every effort not to sin, by hating what is bad in God's eyes, and loving what is good Psalm 97:10; Romans 12:9. They strive to remain in God's love. Jude 1:21
   Adam did not come to know the extent of God's love, and he did not show appreciation, for the little he knew of God's love.
   He had that opportunity, by obeying that one command.
2. choose to serve God on his terms (submit to God's rule), and loyally support his appointed king. They stick to him to the end - loyal, even in the face of humiliation and death Matthew 24:13, while obediently carrying out the work Jesus assigned his followers Matthew 24:14, and seeing firsthand, his loving support. They also support Jesus' brothers, thus showing that they do love God. and his Christ. Matthew 25:34-40
   Adam did not have to endure trials, and prove loyal to God in the face of these.
3. have seen that God is deserving - he is the rightful ruler, lawgiver, and judge, and no one can forever prosper, independent of God.
   Adam did not get to see this as we are seeing it, although he did see the consequences of his disobedience.

Because those of Adam's offspring who choose righteousness, have benefitted from the above, they would not rebel against God, so they are worthy of everlasting life under God's kingdom rule, and they will be sinless, and attain the level of perfection that Adam had the opportunity to gain, but threw away.
Hence, everlasting life, in a restored paradise, would far surpass the paradise of delight Adam enjoyed.

Are you say: “everlasting life, in a restored paradise”, but is that our Heaven with God?

A “restored” paradise like Adam and Eve had is not what I want at all (they sinned there) and I could not do better.

Yes. How sad they gave up that "great life", and sold their children into misery.

No, we Can look at that “Great life” and see and realize it was a lousy scenario for fulfilling our objective.

First, I need to know that you understand what I said.

• The angel that sinned - becoming Satan the Devil - was sinless, and in heaven. So were the crowd of heavenly ones that followed him.
• Whether in heaven, or on earth, intelligent creatures can sin.
• The location has nothing to do with sin. So, the idea that heaven is somehow a get away place from sin, is a myth

Do you agree angels can sin, and have sinned... in heaven?

Yes

Do you agree therefore that referring to Adam and Eve as sinning although sinless, as a reason to want to live in heaven is not rational, because sin can, and has occurred in heave?

NO!!! On another post I listed out the differences which can keep us from sinning in heaven.

 

[CoreyD]

Earth’s “purpose” is for physical earthly people, not resurrected people, that are like the angels.

I think we already established that the earth was not created for angels, but I don't know where you got that resurrected people cannot live on earth.
Perhaps you are thinking of Matthew 22:29-32, but there are two resurrections.
The first resurrection is for those who will be like the angels (they will have spirit bodies). Revelation 20:4, 6; 1 Corinthians 15:35-54
The second resurrection is not for those who will receive heavenly life. They are resurrected to earth. Revelation 20:12-14

Do you agree that there are two resurrections?

If there are no physical earthly people around the earth has no purpose to continue to exist.

I think you said this before.
Since the Bible say there will be physical people around, as well as the earth, and I showed you those scriptures, let me see what problem you have with those scriptures.

Revelation 21:3 refers to men (anthrópos: a man, human, mankind) physical people.
Revelation 21:3 Interlinear: and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, 'Lo, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God,

Do you accept that scripture speaks of men - physical people? Can you state yes or no, please.
That resurrection at Revelation 20:4, 6 is different to the one that follows at Revelation 20:12, 13.

Please answer the following:

• Would you agree that these are two different resurrections?
• According to Revelation 20:3, why is the Devil bound and shut up in the abyss?
• Where are the nations that the Devil will not be able to mislead?
• According to Revelation 20:7, 8, after the Devil is released, whom does he try to mislead, and where are they?

God is not “promising” to not destroy the earth, but does promise not to destroy the earth with water.

Genesis 8:21

And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.​

Can you please answer the following, yes, or no.

• Did God promise "I will never again curse the ground because of man"?
• Did God promise "Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done"?

Yes

Die

That is contrary to God's promise.
never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done. Genesis 8:21

Where does it say people in the grave will rise out of the grave and not be like the angels?

Here - Revelation 20:12-14. Here - 1 Corinthians 15:38-40. Here - John 11:24-44. Here - John 5:28, 29

Mankind goes away and there are only Spiritual beings (angel like) left.

Yet, that is not what the scriptures say.
According to Revelation 20, and 21, there are people on the earth, during and after the 1,000 years, and 1 John 2:15-17, helps us appreciate that some of these are survivors of the old world.

Do you believe those who are like the angels, leave heaven and come back to earth?

 

[CoreyD]

I've just finished reading the intriguing piece you sent me about the Earth's fate, and I felt compelled to share my thoughts with you.

Historically throughout the ages, people have sought to reconcile scientific discoveries with religious beliefs. This text exemplifies that ongoing dialogue. The scientific view, predicting Earth's demise billions of years hence, speaks to our human desire to understand our place in the cosmos. Yet, it also highlights our limitations – we can predict cannot control, such cosmic events.

The biblical interpretation, on the other hand, reflects humanity's deep-seated need for permanence and purpose. The verses cited emphasize God's unchanging nature and His promise of an eternal Earth for the righteous. This view offers comfort and hope, addressing our psychological need for stability and meaning in an often chaotic world.

I'm struck by how both perspectives grapple with human mortality and our species' long-term survival. The scientific view confronts us with our finite existence, Although the religious interpretation offers a form of continuity beyond our individual lives.

It's interesting that both viewpoints acknowledge change and potential destruction differ in the ultimate outcome. This tension between change and permanence is a recurring theme in human thought and belief systems.

I find myself contemplating how these views might be reconciled. Perhaps the promise of an eternal Earth could be understood metaphorically, representing God's enduring love and provision for His creation, rather than a literal, physical permanence.

In the end, I believe both perspectives serve to remind us of our responsibility as stewards of this planet. Whether Earth's fate is determined by cosmic forces or divine will, our duty to care for our home and each other remains paramount.

What are your thoughts on this? I'd be curious to hear your perspective.

A world without a supreme God, is the materialistic worldview, since everything must be explained only by what man can understand.
On the other hand, those whom are spiritual see the world though the eyes of God, and it looks like this:
[God] sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Isaiah 40:22
Their wisdom is foolishness. 1 Corinthians 3:19

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.”​

David was humbled by the works of God. Psalm 8:2-4
This however, is not the attitude of the worldly wise. Romans 1:19-21
This is why they will not submit to God's king, but God laughs at them. Psalm 2:4

We should be careful to not think too highly of nobles, because what we see with our eyes, is not what is really there. God see the heart.
It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in nobles. Psalm 118:9
Do not trust in nobles, in a son of man, who cannot save. When his breath leaves him, he returns to the ground; on that day his plans die. Psalm 146:3, 4

With the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10

What do you see when considering the Bible, in its entirety?
When the Devil is put in the abyss before the 1,000 years, isn't the earth still around? Revelation 20:3
When the Devil is released after the 1,000 years, isn't the earth still around? Revelation 20:7, 8
Since God revealed his purpose, and it involves the earth being around forever (Matthew 6:10; Ephesians 1:10), can there be any doubt that God is not speaking metaphorically about the earth being around forever?

Could it be, that the idea of going to heaven has overridden man's natural desire to keep on living on earth forever?
Could it be, man's desire for peace on earth, has been replaced, because he has lost hope in humanity, and ever seeing peace among men?
In other words, has emotion caused man to hold on to the one idea that has been drilled into his psyche, which he hopes will be a reality?

Perhaps that is why so many teachings, whether Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim... all have a heaven like ending.
What is interesting, is that the very things that exist here on earth, are the things they want in heaven - trees, flowers, milk and honey, pets...

I am sure God must be saddened that man not only ruins the earth, but wants to see it gone, and forget it. However, God says he will destroy those corrupting the earth. Revelation 11:18
Does that not say God cares about this planet, and will preserve it... giving it to the meek, so that they can enjoy it, to their delight? Psalm 37:9-11, 29; Matthew 5:5

Do you have a pet?
Do you enjoy the company of animals?
Do you enjoy seeing waterfalls, lakes, the ocean... whales, dolphins, birds of all kinds...

This earth is so beautiful. God made it that way, so that man can have delight in all that he made... including the variety of foods.
The Bible does not support the view that God will destroy this physical earth.
If we take all the scriptures together, we will understand that Peter is referring to the figurative heavens and earth, that God is going to remove, making way for a new world.

Hope I wasn't too long.

 

[CoreyD]

Does it matter.

To God, it does matter, yes. Genesis 8:21
If we care what matters to God, it does matter to us, as well.

World wide they are being poisoned daily, many slaughtered.

Yes, and that matters to God as well. Revelation 11:18; Isaiah 11:6-9

 

[Aaron112]

Men's Ongoing Evil Intentions
According to Genesis 6:5, God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 6:5 - Bible Gateway

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Can you give the meaning of "will" you are using?

 

[CoreyD]

The whole New Testament is addressed to Christians, but most, if not all, would apply to all people: “So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.” That is everyone is it not?

“The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable”, is that not true of all people?

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So answer me this “do sinful people have a “natural body”, because if they do they must have a Spiritual body, by Paul’s own words?

“The first man was of the dust of the earth” is Adam not the first man for everyone?

“As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth”, everyone is dust from the earth to begin with are they not?

“And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.” Everyone has “borne the image of the earthly man”, so we all will, “bear the image of the heavenly man” who is a spiritual not just earthly being. So even the wicked have a spiritual body that will go to hell, but their physical body of dust from the earthly man returns to dust.

Paul is addressing annointed Christians.
"We", does not include everyone, and certainly those not annointed.

At John 10:16, we read:
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Those of the fold, are told, "Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom." Luke 12:32
This little flock, are Jesus' brothers. Matthew 25:40

We can thus see from the scriptures, that there is a difference between those who will rule, and those who will be ruled. Revelation 7:1-9; Luke 22:28-30

This is addressed in my last post.

I'll take a look.

Do you agree that at Hebrews 12:22 Mount Zion refers to heaven?

yes

Do you agree that at Revelation 14:1, the number of persons seen in heavenly Mount Zion, is 144,000?

It is not to be taken as a literal number, but a large number.

Do you agree that at Revelation 7:4 those sealed number 144,000, and that number contrasts with the great multitude too large to count, or that no one could number, mentioned at Revelation 7:9?

NO.

The 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel, is just the 12,000 from each tribe, but still only representing a large number not to be taken literally. Rev. 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

The multitude came after looking at the 144,000.

The question was... Do you agree that at Revelation 7:4 those sealed number 144,000, and that number contrasts with the great multitude too large to count, or that no one could number, mentioned at Revelation 7:9?
In other words, does the number 144,000 contrast with the great multitude too large to count?

Does a definite number not contrast with an indefinite number?

These “sealed were only from the tribes of Israel”.

No, because look at John’s description of the “Multitude” :

Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,

“they are before the throne of God

and serve him day and night in his temple;

and he who sits on the throne

will shelter them with his presence.

16 ‘Never again will they hunger;

never again will they thirst.

The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]

nor any scorching heat.

17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne

will be their shepherd;

‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’

‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”

Would that not fit a wonderful description of a Disciple?

I do not see your point.
I am not discussing whether or not someone is a disciple.
The question is... Do you agree that one does not have to be in heaven to be standing before the throne and before the Lamb?

Are you trying to suggest that some of these were not heavenly beings?

Why would you assume that they are heavenly beings?

Since you agreed that Mount Zion is heaven, then you must also agree that only 144,000 are seen in heaven, according to Revelation 14:1.
Since the 144,000 at Revelation 7:1-3, is not the same as the great multitude at Revelation 7:9, then you must agree that the great multitude are not in heaven - Mount Zion.

If you disagree, please state why.
If you agree, please acknowledge.

Are you saying Moses did not literally see a burning bush?

Why do you ask this? I do not see the relevance.

They are not saying the three only saw a vision in their minds. So

Did Jesus see the Devil taking him up on a high mountain and showing him all the kingdoms of the world, in his mind? Matthew 4:8
Do you believe that is how visions work?

NO!!! not using your interpretation of “vision” to only mean something never literally seen.

Did I say a vision is not something literally seen?
Peter thought he was seeing a vision, when the angel was leading him out of prison.
Evidently, they understood that a vision is like being in a world that is not on earth.

3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

So Matt should have used horáō if he wanted “to see with your mind”.

So, when Jesus was in the wilderness, being tempted by the Devil, did Jesus imagine that the Devil led him up into the holy city, and set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, or did the Devil get into Jesus' mind?

Can you show me one place in scripture where a vision was seen by multiple views at the same time and place. Three or more witnessing it means it really happened.

Exodus 24:9-11; Matthew 17:1-9; 2 Peter 1:16-18

Evidently, the person is in some kind of trance, or sleep like state. Job 33:14, 15; Acts 10:10

 

[CoreyD]

Yes, there were some bodily resurrections, these are prior to “The Resurrection”, Jesus talked about and the other writers wrote about. These body resurrections happened shortly after death and are not “The Resurrection” we are talking about and to exist for very long on earth you might need an earthly body.

Jesus resurrected Lazarus as a physical being.
Since you agree with that, then you agree that resurrection can be physical.
the reason Lazarus was resurrected as a physical being, is because he was to live on earth.
If Lazarus was to live in heaven, Jesus would not resurrect him as a physical being, but a spirit being.

The point is then, the location - where one will live, determines what kind of body God gives them, upon resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:38-40
38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Those who will live on earth will be resurrected with a fleshly body.
Those who are resurrected to heaven, will be resurrected with a spirit body - one like Jesus'.

Rev. 20:11… The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. How are you interpreting that?

Rev. 20: 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Evidently you did not understand what was showing you earlier... I actually said this twice, but here it is again.

There are examples, in the scriptures of this figurative use.​

Isaiah 34:5 For My sword is satiated [with blood] (ravah: to be saturated, drink one's fill) in heaven; Indeed, it will come down for judgment on Edom And on the people whom I have doomed for destruction.​

Please also see Haggai 2:20-22, and Genesis 11:1​

​

The heavens and earth are used in scripture figuratively to represent people.​

There is also Revelations 20:11.​

Just for a moment, think of the heavens as the powerful nations, and think of the earth as the inhabitants on earth.
The scriptures repeatedly paints that picture for us, in many scriptures.
God removes all powerful nations, and wicked mankind. Daniel 2:44; Revelation 16:14; Revelation 17:12-14; Revelation 19:17, 18; Psalm 92:7; Psalm 37:9, 38

This “thrown” is not here on earth so can physical flesh stand before the thrown of God?

I believe you mean throne.
Yes, God's throne is in heaven, and you said one does not have to be in heaven to be with Jesus.
One does not have to be in heaven to be before God's throne.
Do you agree?

There is nothing saying anything about the risen having physical bodies.

John 5: 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

We went through this, didn't we?
John 5:29

and will come forth--those having done good to the resurrection of life, and those having done evil to the resurrection of judgment.​

Matthew 12:41, 42

The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.​

The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and now One greater than Solomon is here.​

Judgment takes place on earth, after the resurrection at the last hour.
This is not the first resurrection, of those whom the second death has no power.
Those raised up to a resurrected of judgment, can be affected by the second death. Revelation 20:12-15

Dan. 7: 14… His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

This everlasting dominion is not talking about the 1000 year reign, because it lasts 1000 years, but the Spiritual Kingdom we have now and forever.

Why are you leaving off other parts related to the text?
Daniel 7:14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

People nations and languages are on the earth. Not in heaven.
Do you agree?

Dan, 7: 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

Again, this is the Spiritual Kingdom in existence right now, the earthly “kingdoms” are powerless against the Spiritual Kingdom.

According to Daniel, this prophecy says "all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him".

So are you saying that these "powerless nations" will serve Christ and the Saints forever? Where will they be?

John 11:24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.

There is nothing about a bodily resurrection, in fact they can “die”, the physical body can die, but they will continue to live (something other than what died.

You'll have to support that claim with scripture. I do not know of any scripture that says that.

Rev. 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth, “for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

This “New heaven and earth” are not the old heaven and earth, since it passed away! But are you not saying the “New heaven and Earth are the sane earth we live on today?

For the answer to that, please see my second comment above.

Rev. 21: 2 … I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

This is not saying it descended to our old earth since that “earth past away”.

Rev. 21: 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

This is to last “forever”, but the 1000 year reign does not last forever and there are bad people during the 1000 year reign, but there are no bad people in the New Jerusalem?

So, it is your belief that the ones who go to heaven, do come back down to earth... a newly created physical earth?

 

[bling]

I did not agree to this.
Please show me the scripture that says God's will is for man not to accept his help.

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven, cannot refer to what you are saying, because, the will on earth is in conjunction with the will in heaven - "as it is in heaven".
The will therefore is the same as Ephesians 1:10, and relates to the time when peace would exist worldwide, as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom did not come at Pentecost, and his will is not being done on earth.
The Abrahamic promise is not yet fulfilled. Genesis 22:18

What you have done, is selected a will, an decided that that is the will Jesus refers to, but doing so would be to ignore the context, as well as the overall message, and scriptures related to God's purpose.

God’s “purpose” is to do or allow all He can to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.

Why is that God’s purpose? Because God is Love (the epitome of Love/totally unselfish/Loving totally unconditionally /helping all those willing to accept His help, but not forcing them to take His help [He is not holding a shotgun]).

Man just should be wanting to fulfill his earthly objective, if you do not do that than anything else you do is worthless 1 Cor. 13:1-4.

Is Jesus while here on earth also in the Kingdom of God?

Ephesians 1:10, by the way I see the Bible defining God’s Kingdom, the Kingdom extends from the thrown of God in heaven to each individual Christian on earth, so in that way Christ’s Kingdom is united (we are one with each other and heaven), but if this 1000 year earthly reign exist, is the reign here on earth just like the Kingdom in Heaven or is it different and how?

Gen. 22:18 8 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed,[c] because you have obeyed me.” This promise was fulfilled with Christ’s coming.

 

[bling]

It is not on earth. None of those scriptures refer to earth.
I seem to have lost you. Did I?

Christ selected persons to rule with him, but Christ did not decide that every righteous person would rule. He chose a small number. Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 20:4, 6

So the Kingdom did not come in the life time of some of the people Jesus addressed because that is what Jesus said, so how do you interpret:

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Luke 9:27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”
https://ref.ly/Revelation 20.6;nkjv?t=biblia

These are the Saints.

The small number rule in heaven... in God's kingdom.
The kingdom is in heaven. Not on earth. Daniel 2:44
It is called the “kingdom of the heavens“ 32 times in the Gospel of Matthew.
The kingdom rules the earth. Daniel 7:13, 14; Revelation 5:9, 10

So the Kingdom did not come in the life time of some of the people Jesus addressed because that is what Jesus said, so how do you interpret:

Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Luke 9:27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

All what verses?
Please point out the verses, which you believe I made assumptions about.
I believe you will find that no assumptions were made, I merely quoted the scriptures that support the point, or statements I made.
That is not assuming.

Look at the two above.

You are right. That does not make any sense at all.
Would you please show me what you are responding to exactly, that would lead you to conclude that's what I am saying?

1 thess. 4: 13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

So, do we go up with Jesus to heaven or come down with Jesus to earth?

Are the resurrection we have bodies which can fly, so that sounds more like a angel type body than a mankind type body.

Paul calls those he is not addressing as “the rest of mankind” and says: “do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.”, but does the 1000 year reign give them a second chance, hope”?

What do you mean certainly does not have to happen on earth?
Can you tell me what verse 14 is saying.

14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

The Kingdon is the Spiritual kingdom, we (Christians) live in right now, which nothing can destroy. People from every nation are worshipping Him in this Kingdom.

 

[bling]

Does that scripture say that Jesus and the thief went to paradise?
No. It does not say that, does it. Jesus made a promise.
You are making an assumption.

No matter where you put the comma, Jesus says: “You will be with Me in Paradise”.

Yes it does say: “Jesus and the thief went to paradise” at some time.

I, like every translation I have found (over 61), have it happening “that day”, but you found a scholar, which does not agree with everyone else’s conclusion. I have read many “scholars” out to sell books and get speaking engagements, which have different interpretations of scripture verses, and I really like some, but I always seek out peer review, scholars address this one scholar’s conclusion and find all he left out and did not address in his conclusion.

What more is there to it?

You need to look at why all the groups of other scholars put the comma before “today”.

If Jesus was addressing something like: “You have heard from the prophet long ago…”: and then said: “But I tell you today…” then the comma before would be likely, but that is not the context of the very limited conversation with the thief.

Jesus would not have to waste his last breaths saying “today”, since it would add nothing to the sentence if the comma comes after.

I am not a New Testament Greek scholar, but I might ask some when I get a chance. This is just one of many issues with the 1000 year reign as you describe it.

 

[bling]

I don't see how that relates to Ephesians 1:10.
The point is, God having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.

The point is, God's will involves this earth.
Do you accept that?
If not, why not?

Right! We (kingdom dwellers right now) are on the earth, so the kingdom came through Christ who was always in the Kingdom to us.

So, you agree the earth will exist, and people will be on it.
Will the heavenly ones come back down to earth, like you were asking a moment ago?

We exist NOW and the Kingdom is here. We now have God and Christ dwelling within us in the form of their Spirit, so deity dwells within us.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

The Bible says everyone goes to Hades.
The Bible says Hades gives up the dead, and Jesus said this will be. Revelation 20:13; John 5:28, 29
Jesus spoke of the Ninevites, Sodomites, those of Tyre and Sidon, who will rise in the judgment, and paul says the unrighteous will all get a resurrection. Acts 24:15

So, sure enough, the scriptures are telling us that the unrighteous get a second chance.
The millions who died without having a chance to know Christ, and decide to serve God, will all return to life on earth, to get that chance, and they will not have Satan around, nor sin, to interfere with their learning. Revelation 20:1-3
they will also have 1,000 years to reach the level of perfection God wants his children to reach.

Just because the wicked rise from the grave (Hades) does not mean they will be given a second chance, since they go to “Judgement”.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

The “bad” need some kind of body to stand before the judgment seat, but it does not have to be a human body.

Heb. 9:7 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Heb. 10: 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

What conclusion does the scriptures not support.
Please list them. Let's discuss it.

The biggest unsupported conclusion, I see you making is: the mankind earthly bodily resurrection of people at “The Resurrection”.

Matthew, Mark and Luke all record all record the Sadducees asking Jesus (Matt. 22, Mark 12 and Luke 20)

• The Sadducees come to Jesus with an impossible to answer question for a mankind of bodily resurrection (the same it is for your trying to defend a mankind resurrection).
• They ask specifically about an incident that would happen at a Mankind resurrection of the dead: “at the resurrection” (this is not limited to “those who go to heaven”).
• Jesus puts them down, by saying: “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?” Really telling them that their question is stupid, but would it not be unanswerable, like they assumed, for a mankind resurrection?
• Jesus does addresses all those who are resurrected: “When the dead rise” which is not saying “when some of the dead rise”.
• Jesus is saying (all those that rise) they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
• All those that rise will be anglekind (like angels) and thus not like mankind.
• All those which rise, have to be sexless to answer the Sadducee’s question or the question remains unanswerable and Christ is miss leading (lying).
• How would you answer the Sadducee’s question about those who rise and go to the 1000 year reign place, since Christ’s answer would be wrong?

 

[CoreyD]

The biggest unsupported conclusion, I see you making is: the mankind earthly bodily resurrection of people at “The Resurrection”.

Let's address that, then.

Since the earth is here to stay, and it is God's purpose to have a family on earth (Ephesians 1:10; Matthew 6:10), there will be a resurrection, of both the righteous and unrighteous - not the wicked (Acts 24:15; John 5:28, 29), and they will be on earth, along with those who remain, when this word - not planet earth, is gone (1 John 2:17), there will be an earthly physical resurrection.

These don't share in the first resurrection, which is heavenly (Revelation 20:4, 6), and is made up of the sealed 144,000 (Revelation 7:1-3; Revelation 14:1-4), who are priest and kings, in the kingdom (Revelation 5:9, 10).
Rather, they are part of the second resurrection (Revelation 20:12-14), which includes persons who will be judged, during the 1,000 years (Matthew 12:41, 42).

I am certain I did a fine job, supporting that conclusion.