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Australian "If you're listening" - America's Last Election. Part 1: The Hammer and Scorecard - and those who fell for The Big Lie!

eclipsenow

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This is my favourite Australian ABC journalist, Matt Bevan. His show is starting a series so intense, the introductory sting before the titles takes 5 minutes!

This is Bevan at his best. The whole episode is 20 minutes - but he packs a lot in.

I knew the 2020 election was weird - I just didn't know how weird! But all the signs are that was a just a dress rehearsal for what is coming. The new and improved blueprint has been documented and even publicly announced. And they're following it to the letter.

AMERICA's LAST ELECTION - PART 1: "If you're listening".​

 
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HarleyER

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This is my favourite Australian ABC journalist, Matt Bevan. His show is starting a series so intense, the introductory sting before the titles takes 5 minutes!

This is Bevan at his best. The whole episode is 20 minutes - but he packs a lot in.

I knew the 2020 election was weird - I just didn't know how weird! But all the signs are that was a just a dress rehearsal for what is coming. The new and improved blueprint has been documented and even publicly announced. And they're following it to the letter.

AMERICA's LAST ELECTION - PART 1: "If you're listening".​

Oh, brother.

I wonder if he's going to do a special on Kamala Harris being the first Democrat appointed (not elected) to run for office? How about the Biden's ties with the Chinese? And there is Putin's and Al Jazerra's endorsement of Harris?


This is just another puppet in the puppet master game.
 
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eclipsenow

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Oh, brother.

I wonder if he's going to do a special on Kamala Harris being the first Democrat appointed (not elected) to run for office?
First and foremost - have you watched this excellent production?
The guy is brilliant and a Christian.
He used to go to my own church before he moved.

Now, Kamala appointed? Oh no! Shock horror! :oldthumbsup: :oldthumbsup: :doh: :laughing: i
That's no biggie to an Australian - or anyone in the Westminster system of government. ALL our leaders are appointed by the party, every time. We NEVER vote for the actual leader of the party - unless they happen to be in our electorate!

We have too much 'Personality politics' as it is - speculating on the personal qualities of the leader etc. I want this to be about policies - but people start ranting "I don't like the way he gets emotional" or "I don't like the way she gets motherly" or whatever. Piffle.

In fact, if Australia were ever to go to a Republic model - I would prefer that an unelected, independent oversight body appoint our "President". I want our Prime Minister to still be the Executive in this scenario, and the "President" which is basically another "Governor General" would only have the job of stepping in if there were a constitutional crisis. I do not want to see the "President" politicised as well.

How about the Biden's ties with the Chinese? And there is Putin's and Al Jazerra's endorsement of Harris?


This is just another puppet in the puppet master game.
Trump is the one they spent 10's of millions on Agit-Prop alt-right youtubers. Do you have evidence of serious money going into Kamala?
 
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BCP1928

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Oh, brother.

I wonder if he's going to do a special on Kamala Harris being the first Democrat appointed (not elected) to run for office?
He won't, because she isn't. Presidential primaries are a relatively recent political invention and not all states hold them even now. The "binding" presidential primaries--the kind we have now--date from the 1972 election.
 
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HarleyER

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First and foremost - have you watched this excellent production?
The guy is brilliant and a Christian.
He used to go to my own church before he moved.

Now, Kamala appointed? Oh no! Shock horror! :oldthumbsup: :oldthumbsup: :doh: :laughing: i
That's no biggie to an Australian - or anyone in the Westminster system of government. ALL our leaders are appointed by the party, every time. We NEVER vote for the actual leader of the party - unless they happen to be in our electorate!

We have too much 'Personality politics' as it is - speculating on the personal qualities of the leader etc. I want this to be about policies - but people start ranting "I don't like the way he gets emotional" or "I don't like the way she gets motherly" or whatever. Piffle.

In fact, if Australia were ever to go to a Republic model - I would prefer that an unelected, independent oversight body appoint our "President". I want our Prime Minister to still be the Executive in this scenario, and the "President" which is basically another "Governor General" would only have the job of stepping in if there were a constitutional crisis. I do not want to see the "President" politicised as well.


Trump is the one they spent 10's of millions on Agit-Prop alt-right youtubers. Do you have evidence of serious money going into Kamala?
I would prefer that an unelected, independent oversight body appoint our "President".

Interesting. Sounds very much like China system of government.

Trump is the one they spent 10's of millions on Agit-Prop alt-right youtubers. Do you have evidence of serious money going into Kamala?
You have got to be kidding, right?

Where do you think the billion plus dollars rolling into Kamala's campaign is coming from? I saw a TV advertisement for Kamala sponsored by FFPAC and decided to look it up. Not only is it a left leaning donor PAC, but it is funded by "dark money", meaning they don't know who is funding the PAC. Please note, this is only ONE of many PACs.

You might try to tell me Trump is spending millions of dollars, but the fact is that in August the Harris team took in three times as much as Trump. In face, the Democrats normally outraise and outspend the Republicans.

So please don't whine about how much Trump is spending. The fact that Trump is so popular is simply because of the nutty ideas of the Democrats (e.g. boys who think they're girls playing in girls' sports, illegals flooding the borders, inflation, and, yes, the government trying to mandate EVs without any plans all the while shutting down oil production).



 
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HarleyER

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He won't, because she isn't. Presidential primaries are a relatively recent political invention and not all states hold them even now. The "binding" presidential primaries--the kind we have now--date from the 1972 election.
You're correct. My mistake.

I would add that, according to the article below, presidential primaries apparently came into play after World War II although they were a bit different.

 
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eclipsenow

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Interesting. Sounds very much like China system of government.

AUSTRALIAN 'PRESIDENT': I don't want the position of Governor General to become like your Presidential elections. I'd rather avoid the toxic clown circus that shreds eye-watering cargo-ship piles of money. In the Westminster System of Parliamentary Democracy, the Governor General is appointed, not elected. The only reason we would have a "President" is to perform the GG's role in a constitutional crisis. We would not have any less democracy than we have now - but we could continue to have a less toxic and frenzied election culture.

GERRYMANDERING: In some ways we have more democracy than you do. For instance, our Election Commission has a responsibility to draw up election maps that include suburban blocks according to statistical methods - not the outrageous gerrymandering that your politicians get away with. The result is our Parliamentary "Seats" look more like big squares or polygons or blobs than the outrageous Salamander monsters we see so frequently in your system. It only took 25 years for your system to be corrupted like this by Elbridge Gerry and his Salamander seat - where the name Gerrymander comes from. Australia is a younger Federation. Maybe we saw what was going on in your country and though "Eeeww, no way - better stop that!" as we drew up our nationally consistent voting rules at the Federal level. Electoral system of Australia - Wikipedia

COMPULSORY VOTING = SANER CAMPAIGNS: We also have compulsory voting. I had to vote on a by-election on the weekend. It would have cost me $55 if I had neglected it. I know that's just a slap-on-the-wrist, but the legal requirement to vote creates a culture where everyone votes. This makes an enormous difference in campaigning. It means the politicians have to appeal not just to the frenzied extremes - but stay 'sane enough' to appeal to the the bored middle.

PARTIES CHOOSE THEIR LEADERS BASED ON COMPULSORY VOTING: As I have said, the Parties choose their leaders. We vote for our representatives based on our Seats (Parliament) and State Proportional Representation (for the Senate - where we vote for any representative we want from candidates across our whole State to represent us in the Federal Senate.) We then trust our local Rep to vote for their Leader in the interests of the nation. They conduct frequent polling to see who is popular - and would dump someone with Trump's qualities pretty much straight away. (The Federal Senate sometimes elects Trump-like minority party representatives - who represent certain racist and poorly educated areas of Australia. EG: Our Pauline Hanson is a female version of Trump - except she came from a fish and chips shop and genuinely believes her racist shtick. She's not an entitled billionaire like you-know-who.)

FAIRER VOTING PROCESS WITH ABUNDANT POLES ON SATURDAYS: AND PLENTY OF PRE-POLLING BOOTHS AND MAIL IN VOTING AS WELL
Our Electoral Commission also ensures there are abundant voting booths in pleasant surroundings like town halls or public schools. Not only that - but there is a tradition of the local school or Scouts group or some other charity putting on a sausage sandwich stall called a "Democracy Sausage". It's such a strong tradition that my favourite political podcast coming out of the Australian National University bears the same name.

NOT KIDDING - RUSSIAN INFLUENCE ON YOUTUBE HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED:
The DOJ said it!
"U.S. Attorney Damian Williams said: “As alleged, the Russian state broadcaster RT orchestrated a massive scheme to influence the American public by secretly planting and financing a content creation company on U.S. soil. The instruments of the scheme were RT employees Kostiantyn Kalashnikov and Elena Afanasyeva, who managed the operation from Moscow using fake personas and shell companies, and the victims of the scheme were the American people, who received Russian messaging without knowing it. As the charges unsealed today demonstrate, this Office will work with our law enforcement partners to unmask and hold accountable all those who conduct malign influence campaigns in the United States, no matter how hard they try to hide their tracks.”"

KAMALA FUNDING?
Sorry - you've linked to various articles but what is your concern - other than the fact that she is more popular than Trump and bringing in the crowds that love her, and the money?
Do you have an example of a specific issue?
Check your sources. If you want to be taken seriously - please don't refer to right-wing activist groups as a source. EG: Your "Influence Watch" is funded by these guys.

Also - did you ever investigate the "10 Million" Trump was meant to have injected into his own 2016 run? Erhem - Egypt much? The FBI was investigating - but then it was all shut down by a Trump loyalist. That's not only overseas influence, but corruption much?
 
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AUSTRALIAN 'PRESIDENT': I don't want the position of Governor General to become like your Presidential elections. I'd rather avoid the toxic clown circus that shreds eye-watering cargo-ship piles of money. In the Westminster System of Parliamentary Democracy, the Governor General is appointed, not elected. The only reason we would have a "President" is to perform the GG's role in a constitutional crisis. We would not have any less democracy than we have now - but we could continue to have a less toxic and frenzied election culture.

GERRYMANDERING: In some ways we have more democracy than you do. For instance, our Election Commission has a responsibility to draw up election maps that include suburban blocks according to statistical methods - not the outrageous gerrymandering that your politicians get away with. The result is our Parliamentary "Seats" look more like big squares or polygons or blobs than the outrageous Salamander monsters we see so frequently in your system. It only took 25 years for your system to be corrupted like this by Elbridge Gerry and his Salamander seat - where the name Gerrymander comes from. Australia is a younger Federation. Maybe we saw what was going on in your country and though "Eeeww, no way - better stop that!" as we drew up our nationally consistent voting rules at the Federal level. Electoral system of Australia - Wikipedia

COMPULSORY VOTING = SANER CAMPAIGNS: We also have compulsory voting. I had to vote on a by-election on the weekend. It would have cost me $55 if I had neglected it. I know that's just a slap-on-the-wrist, but the legal requirement to vote creates a culture where everyone votes. This makes an enormous difference in campaigning. It means the politicians have to appeal not just to the frenzied extremes - but stay 'sane enough' to appeal to the the bored middle.

PARTIES CHOOSE THEIR LEADERS BASED ON COMPULSORY VOTING: As I have said, the Parties choose their leaders. We vote for our representatives based on our Seats (Parliament) and State Proportional Representation (for the Senate - where we vote for any representative we want from candidates across our whole State to represent us in the Federal Senate.) We then trust our local Rep to vote for their Leader in the interests of the nation. They conduct frequent polling to see who is popular - and would dump someone with Trump's qualities pretty much straight away. (The Federal Senate sometimes elects Trump-like minority party representatives - who represent certain racist and poorly educated areas of Australia. EG: Our Pauline Hanson is a female version of Trump - except she came from a fish and chips shop and genuinely believes her racist shtick. She's not an entitled billionaire like you-know-who.)

FAIRER VOTING PROCESS WITH ABUNDANT POLES ON SATURDAYS: AND PLENTY OF PRE-POLLING BOOTHS AND MAIL IN VOTING AS WELL
Our Electoral Commission also ensures there are abundant voting booths in pleasant surroundings like town halls or public schools. Not only that - but there is a tradition of the local school or Scouts group or some other charity putting on a sausage sandwich stall called a "Democracy Sausage". It's such a strong tradition that my favourite political podcast coming out of the Australian National University bears the same name.

NOT KIDDING - RUSSIAN INFLUENCE ON YOUTUBE HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED:
The DOJ said it!
"U.S. Attorney Damian Williams said: “As alleged, the Russian state broadcaster RT orchestrated a massive scheme to influence the American public by secretly planting and financing a content creation company on U.S. soil. The instruments of the scheme were RT employees Kostiantyn Kalashnikov and Elena Afanasyeva, who managed the operation from Moscow using fake personas and shell companies, and the victims of the scheme were the American people, who received Russian messaging without knowing it. As the charges unsealed today demonstrate, this Office will work with our law enforcement partners to unmask and hold accountable all those who conduct malign influence campaigns in the United States, no matter how hard they try to hide their tracks.”"

KAMALA FUNDING?
Sorry - you've linked to various articles but what is your concern - other than the fact that she is more popular than Trump and bringing in the crowds that love her, and the money?
Do you have an example of a specific issue?
Check your sources. If you want to be taken seriously - please don't refer to right-wing activist groups as a source. EG: Your "Influence Watch" is funded by these guys.

Also - did you ever investigate the "10 Million" Trump was meant to have injected into his own 2016 run? Erhem - Egypt much? The FBI was investigating - but then it was all shut down by a Trump loyalist. That's not only overseas influence, but corruption much?
We vote for our representatives based on our Seats (Parliament) and State Proportional Representation (for the Senate - where we vote for any representative we want from candidates across our whole State to represent us in the Federal Senate.) We then trust our local Rep to vote for their Leader in the interests of the nation.

I'm sure your system of government must be wonderful. No problems, er....transgenderism, euthanesia, abortion, men playing in women's sports, speaking out against homosexuality, etc.

Why should there be any problems when Australia is already controlled by the liberal agenda? It's like California. I'm sure if people in the US weren't fighting these issues our government would be wonderful as well.


NOT KIDDING - RUSSIAN INFLUENCE ON YOUTUBE HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED:
The DOJ said it!

NEWS FLASH-DOJ have said a lot of things recently that have proven to be untrue. So has the CIA, FBI, and NSA, often testifying and lying under oath. They lie about something, the news media reports it in major headlines, it is proven to be untrue, and a retraction is never forth coming nor an indictment.

The Russian influence has been debunked as a lie sent out by the Clinton team. BTW-Couldn't your positive Harris articles be construde as election influence by Australians? ;)

KAMALA FUNDING?
Sorry - you've linked to various articles but what is your concern - other than the fact that she is more popular than Trump and bringing in the crowds that love her, and the money?
You're the one who was whining in post #3 about how much Trump is spending. I just wanted to set the record straight that Republicans normally are outraised and out spent in these elections.

As far as being more popular than Trump, I doubt that.

Raising money isn't a measurement of anything. Three billionaires could give $500 million to a campaign, but that wouldn't make the candidate popular. It certainly didn't help Hilary Clinton when she ran against Trump. She outspent him by about 50% more and still lost.

Democrats don't like Harris. Don't get me wrong, I not saying that she won't win. But someone is pulling the strings behind her. Does anyone really think that Joe Biden is running the US? HA!
 
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BCP1928

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I'm sure your system of government must be wonderful. No problems, er....transgenderism, euthanesia, abortion, men playing in women's sports, speaking out against homosexuality, etc.

Why should there be any problems when Australia is already controlled by the liberal agenda? It's like California. I'm sure if people in the US weren't fighting these issues our government would be wonderful as well.
Maybe they just realize how trivial those issues are when compared to the real problems we all face.
 
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Maybe they just realize how trivial those issues are when compared to the real problems we all face.
Tell that to the young girl who was severely injured who had to play against a man who "thinks" he a girl:


She is now partially paralyzed. Let me know how trivial that would be if it were your daughter or granddaughter. Or just how comfortable would you feel about men in the women dressing room before a game?

It's always easy to dismiss these issues when they simply don't affect you.
 
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BCP1928

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Tell that to the young girl who was severely injured who had to play against a man who "thinks" he a girl:


She is now partially paralyzed. Let me know how trivial that would be if it were your daughter or granddaughter. Or just how comfortable would you feel about men in the women dressing room before a game?

It's always easy to dismiss these issues when they simply don't affect you.
That was a tragedy for the young woman, and I certainly oppose a school policy which would allow it to happen. But it just doesn't seem like a national political issue.
 
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That was a tragedy for the young woman, and I certainly oppose a school policy which would allow it to happen. But it just doesn't seem like a national political issue.
What rises up to the level of a national political issue for you?
 
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What rises up to the level of a national political issue for you?
Economics, foreign policy, national defense, things like that. The policies of the North Carolina High School Athletic Association, as stupid as they may be, just do not rise to that level.
 
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Economics, foreign policy, national defense, things like that. The policies of the North Carolina High School Athletic Association, as stupid as they may be, just do not rise to that level.
Then why the fuss over the overturning of Roe vs Wade? How about mandating EVs?

Please note that it is the federal government mandating sexual morals and behaviors through discrimination policies-not the North Carolina High School Athletic Associatioin. They will tell you what you should believe. The association is simply following the agenda. So, by your definition, the federal government has no business in dictating these actions either here or in Australia.

The government makes a mistake when it tries to social engineer it's citizens.
 
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I'm sure your system of government must be wonderful. No problems, er....transgenderism, euthanesia, abortion, men playing in women's sports, speaking out against homosexuality, etc.

Why should there be any problems when Australia is already controlled by the liberal agenda? It's like California. I'm sure if people in the US weren't fighting these issues our government would be wonderful as well.

I don't think any of these can be attributed to Australia's system of government. Countries with government setups more akin to that of the US have gone extremely liberal and countries with government setups more similar to Australia have been conservative.

In truth, the parliamentary system of the people in parliament choosing the leader rather than the general populace is basically exactly how the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader are chosen in the US, and no one bats an eye at that; even in recent times where they had major problems choosing a Speaker, I didn't see anyone suggest that the Speaker of the House should be chosen by a vote by the general populace.

Indeed, even the President wasn't supposed to be done by direct election, but that is how it is done nowadays. Okay, technically it isn't by direct election now, but in terms of how someone votes, it's direct because you put on your ballot the candidate you want for president (it's only indirect in the way the votes end up being counted). Voting directly for presidential candidates on the ballot isn't how it was supposed to work. The way it was supposed to work is that people would elect who they thought would be the best equipped people for choosing the president, then those people chosen in each state would meet with the other electors of the state, debate the issue, and then with their own independent discretion cast their votes. If no one got a majority of the electors--which was seen by various framers of the Constitution was something that would happen in a lot of--then the House of Representatives would choose from among the people who got the most votes by the electors.

As we all know, this didn't happen at all; the electors very quickly became little more than functionaries; the one time they tried to exercise independent discretion was 1796, which ended up with the bizarre result of the president and vice president being of opposing parties (basically, imagine Trump winning in 2016 with Hillary as the VP, or Biden winning in 2020 with Trump as the VP). After that, everyone (including the electors) realized it was a terrible idea to try to decide anything and just loyally followed whoever their party chose, thus meaning people essentially voted directly for president. But the way it was supposed to work was that people would be voting for electors, not for presidential candidates.
 
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eclipsenow

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I'm sure your system of government must be wonderful. No problems, er....transgenderism, euthanesia, abortion, men playing in women's sports, speaking out against homosexuality, etc.
I think a conversation on church & state is probably more applicable in the theology thread.
Here you'll just confirm everyone's suspicions that Trump voters are really only interested in Project 2025 - bring the 1950's back.


Why should there be any problems when Australia is already controlled by the liberal agenda? It's like California. I'm sure if people in the US weren't fighting these issues our government would be wonderful as well.
There are ways in which we are - and others in which we are very, very different.

Like the compulsory voting and nationally consistent Electoral Commission and abundant voting booths.
You know - fairer democracy.
Compulsory voting leading to (slightly) saner campaigns.
Less corruptible democracy.
Less Gerrymandering.

The more I hear about America's broken democracy - the prouder I become about our funny little country actually getting some things right.

NEWS FLASH-DOJ have said a lot of things recently that have proven to be untrue. So has the CIA, FBI, and NSA, often testifying and lying under oath. They lie about something, the news media reports it in major headlines, it is proven to be untrue, and a retraction is never forth coming nor an indictment.
Oh right. If it's not in Fox News - it's fake news. Got it. :oldthumbsup:


The Russian influence has been debunked as a lie sent out by the Clinton team.
Incorrect. The Youtubers themselves have admitted they received the money - they just didn't know where it was from. That great reporter that was at my church? Even he covers this story.

 
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I don't think any of these can be attributed to Australia's system of government. Countries with government setups more akin to that of the US have gone extremely liberal and countries with government setups more similar to Australia have been conservative.

In truth, the parliamentary system of the people in parliament choosing the leader rather than the general populace is basically exactly how the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader are chosen in the US, and no one bats an eye at that; even in recent times where they had major problems choosing a Speaker, I didn't see anyone suggest that the Speaker of the House should be chosen by a vote by the general populace.

Indeed, even the President wasn't supposed to be done by direct election, but that is how it is done nowadays. Okay, technically it isn't by direct election now, but in terms of how someone votes, it's direct because you put on your ballot the candidate you want for president (it's only indirect in the way the votes end up being counted). Voting directly for presidential candidates on the ballot isn't how it was supposed to work. The way it was supposed to work is that people would elect who they thought would be the best equipped people for choosing the president, then those people chosen in each state would meet with the other electors of the state, debate the issue, and then with their own independent discretion cast their votes. If no one got a majority of the electors--which was seen by various framers of the Constitution was something that would happen in a lot of--then the House of Representatives would choose from among the people who got the most votes by the electors.

As we all know, this didn't happen at all; the electors very quickly became little more than functionaries; the one time they tried to exercise independent discretion was 1796, which ended up with the bizarre result of the president and vice president being of opposing parties (basically, imagine Trump winning in 2016 with Hillary as the VP, or Biden winning in 2020 with Trump as the VP). After that, everyone (including the electors) realized it was a terrible idea to try to decide anything and just loyally followed whoever their party chose, thus meaning people essentially voted directly for president. But the way it was supposed to work was that people would be voting for electors, not for presidential candidates.
I don't think any of these can be attributed to Australia's system of government. Countries with government setups more akin to that of the US have gone extremely liberal and countries with government setups more similar to Australia have been conservative.
While there is much truth with what you've stated, I'm not sure I would agree with your basic assessment that these things cannot be attributed to the Australia's system of government. The Australia government enacted these laws, so they are responsible.

So to say Australia is a conservative goverment belies the fact of what they are trying to implement. It's almost like saying there are moderate Democrats and liberal Democrats. How can this distinction be made when the Democrats all vote exactly the same way in just about everything? These Australian policies are not conservative policies so how can Australia be considered conservative?

Please don't get me wrong. I don't wish to pick on the Chinese or Australian government. Our government is heading this same way, be it Democrat or Republican. Like-minded big donors fund the election of people who will push their causes and the media pushing the agenda. I have been called cynical in my view, but it is simply what is happening.
 
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HarleyER

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Here you'll just confirm everyone's suspicions that Trump voters are really only interested in Project 2025 - bring the 1950's back.

Project 2025:

Project 2025 is a proposed presidential transition project that is composed of four pillars: a policy guide for the next presidential administration; a LinkedIn-style database of personnel who could serve in the next administration; training for that pool of candidates dubbed the "Presidential Administration Academy;" and a playbook of actions to be taken within the first 180 days in office.​

Wow!!! How devious. This is serious!!! Someone who has an organization plan! Why didn't the Democrats think about this?


Incorrect. The Youtubers themselves have admitted they received the money

Well, let's see. Trump has had three assassination attempts on him, a sham trial in which he wasn't allowed to call any witnesses and then fine $435 million dollars for paying hush money to keep it quiet from his wife, constant badgering from others lawyers (that often are thrown out), and a slanted media coverage.

The Russian hoax came from the Hillary campaign. FBI, CIA, and NSA directors that deliberately lied to Congress about their role. And some continue to perpetrate this hoax. I'm sure your ABC friend didn't spend much time looking into this. Ho-hum. It just another instance of bias reporting.

Meanwhile, you have Russia, China, and Iran all endorsing Harris, all the while Harris is receiving 50% more in funds, much from sources unknown (dark money).

And you want to tell me Trump is receiving money from Russia.
 
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BCP1928

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Then why the fuss over the overturning of Roe vs Wade? How about mandating EVs?

Please note that it is the federal government mandating sexual morals and behaviors through discrimination policies-not the North Carolina High School Athletic Associatioin. They will tell you what you should believe. The association is simply following the agenda. So, by your definition, the federal government has no business in dictating these actions either here or in Australia.

The government makes a mistake when it tries to social engineer it's citizens.
The Federal government does not mandate morals. Roe v Wade did not make abortion moral, it merely made it legal. The mandate regarding electric vehicles is not even a moral issue.
 
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HarleyER

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The Federal government does not mandate morals. Roe v Wade did not make abortion moral, it merely made it legal. The mandate regarding electric vehicles is not even a moral issue.
Of course the Federal government mandates morals. Roe v Wade is all about a moral issue, the rights of the mother vs the rights of the unborn child. Abortion is still legal, but those who feel that it is killing a person don't feel like the government shouldn't pay for such services.

When the Federal government tells churches they can't speak out about certain sins, then they are issuing a new set of moral commandments.
 
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