Shouldn't all Evangelicals want Christian Nationalism?

[Freth]

In response to the OP...

When man decides to himself that he should be in control, he seeks to exercise power only held by God.

• God is the judge, not man.
• Christianity is a free will choice. It cannot be mandated.
• God removes and sets up kings according to His purposes.
• God's times and laws are eternal and cannot be changed.

Look at Daniel and Revelation, as both books describe what happens when man thinks of himself as God. The very thing such a power seeks to prevent (blasphemy, for instance) is what it actually becomes itself; a blasphemous power that persecutes its own professed people—Christians.

Prophecy states that such a power puts itself in the place of God, restricts buying and selling, and eventually makes a death decree against those who will not worship the beast and his image.

As soon as you seek to exercise power, you get into dangerous territory where you become the very thing prophesied to bring in the mark of the beast and false worship.

So I say no. Christians should not want Christian Nationalism.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

“You are a direct result of Western Christianity as that is where your faith was born out of.”

My identity is not shaped by Western or Eastern Christianity. Instead, it is rooted in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on the cross and granted me forgiveness for my sins.

This is arrogance of the highest sort that refuses to see oneself as an individual who is part of a chain of the faithful stretching back to the Apostles. You are not the only Christian since the Apostles. There were those before you who laid the foundation in society and that is why there are many more Christians today than there otherwise would be.

In our recent exchanges, I've noticed that you mention "Christianity" but never praise God, glorify Christ, or reference scripture. Even assuming I'm a product of Western Christianity suggests a limited understanding of the faith.

Praise of Christ should be implicit in this conversation. If you are unable to speak of Christianity as a movement than that is your fault, not mine.

This will be my final response to you. I'm not interested in engaging in a pointless argument.

Because you have no point or argument to make.

 

[lifepsyop]

In response to the OP...

When man decides to himself that he should be in control, he seeks to exercise power only held by God.

• God is the judge, not man.
• Christianity is a free will choice. It cannot be mandated.
• God removes and sets up kings according to His purposes.
• God's times and laws are eternal and cannot be changed.

Look at Daniel and Revelation, as both books describe what happens when man thinks of himself as God. The very thing such a power seeks to prevent (blasphemy, for instance) is what it actually becomes itself; a blasphemous power that persecutes its own professed people—Christians.

Prophecy states that such a power puts itself in the place of God, restricts buying and selling, and eventually makes a death decree against those who will not worship the beast and his image.

As soon as you seek to exercise power, you get into dangerous territory where you become the very thing prophesied to bring in the mark of the beast and false worship.

So I say no. Christians should not want Christian Nationalism.

Should Christian husbands and fathers exercise power and authority over their households?

 

[didactics]

Now I probably should have read that book the case for Christian Nationalism as it would have helped me to have a more informed opinion. There are some sound arguments for it as long as it's not forcing any particular denomination. Our own nation was Christian in its founding so I don't know why any Christian would be opposed to it. I think George Washington didn't even want to lead the nation but the people wanted him leading not only because he was a great general but because he was devout and people knew him to be a good man. The only fear people seem to have is that such a leader may become power hungry and wouldn't be able to lead and be faithful at the same time. There might have been examples in history such as Calvin, who agreed that Michael Servetus should be put to death as a heretic, but this pales in comparison to the atrocities of atheist dictators.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Our own nation was Christian in its founding so I don't know why any Christian would be opposed to it.

The USA was quasichristian in its founding, not of Christ.

 

[didactics]

The USA was quasichristian in its founding, not of Christ.

What leads you to believe this? Do you think they were more or less deists? Certainly there were enlightenment thinkers at the time like Thomas Paine, but I don't think George Washington was of the same stripe.

 

[RileyG]

What leads you to believe this? Do you think they were more or less deists? Certainly there were enlightenment thinkers at the time like Thomas Paine, but I don't think George Washington was of the same stripe.

George Washington was Anglican/Episcopalian although he did visit various Churches.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

All of them were Freemasons. And then there is that which was done to the original inhabitants of the land: this is the first layer of foundation-stones of the nation. They tried to paste crosses on those stones, but failed, as all such will. Christ the Lord has refused to rule this world.

 

[didactics]

All of them were Freemasons. And then there is that which was done to the original inhabitants of the land: this is the first layer of foundation-stones of the nation. They tried to paste crosses on those stones, but failed, as all such will. Christ the Lord has refused to rule this world.

There was a Christian masonry at the time. You may debate whether Christians ought to be a part of any masonry group, but I don't think it disproves that he was a genuine believer. As far as pasting crosses on stones I don't know about that, but in 1607 English colonists established at Jamestown Virginia set up a wooden cross and Reverend Robert Hunt led them in prayer. According to George Percy, one of the early settlers, "The nine and twentieth day we set up a Crosse at Chesupioc Bay, and named the place Cape Henry." They landed on April 26 and explored for the next several days and on the 29th of April raised a wooden cross.

 

[lifepsyop]

All of them were Freemasons. And then there is that which was done to the original inhabitants of the land: this is the first layer of foundation-stones of the nation. They tried to paste crosses on those stones, but failed, as all such will.

I agree that America's founding was heavily masonic. The very concept of sowing revolution against the king is masonic and anti-Christian. Such a revolution is a strange thing for American Christians to celebrate.

But why do you say it's impossible for a political body be submitted to Christ? What's wrong with a nation wanting to formally surrender to Jesus as their Lord?

Christ the Lord has refused to rule this world.

But followers of Christ are expected to rule hierarchically, their households for example. The words of the apostles make that very clear. We have duties and authorities here in the world right now while we wait for the bridegroom.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

But why do you say it's impossible for a political body be submitted to Christ? What's wrong with a nation wanting to formally surrender to Jesus as their Lord?

Christ the Lord has refused to rule in this world. Any desire of this world to be ruled by Him, is disrespectful.

 

[RDKirk]

But followers of Christ are expected to rule hierarchically, their households for example. The words of the apostles make that very clear. We have duties and authorities here in the world right now while we wait for the bridegroom.

That was true of pagan Roman and Greek society as well.

 

[RDKirk]

Christ the Lord has refused to rule in this world. Any desire of this world to be ruled by Him, is disrespectful.

Any professed desire of a government of this world to be ruled by Christ is false religion. It's one of the three temptations Satan offered to Christ.

 

[pgp_protector]

But only if it's their version.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Christ the Lord has refused to rule in this world. Any desire of this world to be ruled by Him, is disrespectful.

Is our Lord Jesus Christ the King of all Christians?

 

[RDKirk]

Is our Lord Jesus Christ the King of all Christians?

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.” -- John 18

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.” -- John 18

And how does this impact our lives as Christians today? Are we to surrender all power to Satan and defend his right to rule the world?

 

[RDKirk]

And how does this impact our lives as Christians today? Are we to surrender all power to Satan and defend his right to rule the world?

1 Peter provides the field manual for how to operate as an ambassador of the Kingdom of Heaven assigned to an earthly nation.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

1 Peter provides the field manual for how to operate as an ambassador of the Kingdom of Heaven assigned to an earthly nation.

Does this mean defending and not challenging the sovereignty of Satan?

 

[Palmfever]

No.