Gun ownership on the rise among liberals according to a new report

[FireDragon76]

Is that still true when you omit suicides from that statistic set?

From a public health standpoint, it's not relevant. Gun ownership increases gun-related deaths.

 

[David Lamb]

From a public health standpoint, it's not relevant. Gun ownership increases gun-related deaths.

Yes, here in the UK gun ownership is tiny compared to the United States. The figures I've seen have a death-by-firearms rate of 0.2 (one fifth of a person!) per 100,000 people here, compared to 12.21 (just over 12 and one fifth people) per 100,000 people in the USA.

 

[DaisyDay]

I believe all this extremism talk and fear started during the Trump administration. The looney toons started acting out more during this time and the media amplified the message of civil war till now, so I can understand the fear on the left and the reason they are buying guns to prepare for the perceived civil war. This is good for the NRA. :/



npr.org October 31, 2018

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/31/662216598/another-civil-war-pessimism-about-political-violence-deepens-in-a-divided-nation

The start of this burst of gun ownership and bullet hoarding happened during the Obama administration. Any of you all remember Jade Helm 15, as presented by the lovely Alex Jones? One of his claims was that “helm" is an acronym for "Homeland Eradication of Local Militants".

Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theories - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even the Texas governor Abbott ratcheted up the conspiracy theory that the Obama administration was rehearsing a military takeover and that local militias were at risk.

The Jade Helm Fiasco Says More About Texas Than it Does Russia

Even if Russia had nothing to do with Jade Helm, the episode is still evidence for the proposition that the American body politic is weak and easy to manipulate.

www.texasobserver.org

 

[Laodicean60]

I have an AR as well, I don't personally buy into all the stigmas about them.

I don't own guns and I think my sons became enthusiasts because we live in a small community with a lot of hunters. I've had my fill with an M16 in the Army. I think if I ever buy a rifle it'll be a Ruger 22 to play with plus it'll be all the protection I need because not too many people will want to be in my house with a couple of 22 rounds inside them.

 

[Offline4Better.]

They are not obsessed with guns but view them as tools?

I agree with you there. The US needs to adopt the Canadian and Western European mindset that guns are tools, not toys. Europe is such a cool continent, cos they are sensible in a lot of areas. As a moderate man, I appreciate Europe.

This is the American Solidarity Party's platform on guns. It seems very moderate, but also very European to me, in a good way.

Full platform available here: Principles and Platform — American Solidarity Party

 

[ThatRobGuy]

From a public health standpoint, it's not relevant. Gun ownership increases gun-related deaths.

It is relevant, because if suicides are the main thing factoring into that, and suicides aren't meaningfully reduced by the removal of guns (and people simply pivot to another method, which UK stats suggest that people do), then the issue isn't being solved.

It'd be like if we were concerned about people OD'ing on Vicodin, but the stats from other places suggested that if you ban Vicodin, they'll just replace it with Percocet, then banning Vicodin isn't going to solve the issue at hand.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why would you do that? In the UK farmers have a very high suicide rate precisely because they have easy access to a gun.

Because the UK stats suggested that after their gun bans, the suicide rates remained the same, people just switched to a different method.

People don't commit suicide "because they have access to a gun", people commit suicide because they're suicidal.

If guns were the exclusive means of killing oneself, and the removal of guns resulted in suicide rates plummeting, then it'd be a valid argument.


We can't legislate things for everyone based on what suicidal people see as "the easiest method" if all evidence shows they'll simply move onto the 2nd easiest method.

 

[FireDragon76]

It is relevant, because if suicides are the main thing factoring into that, and suicides aren't meaningfully reduced by the removal of guns (and people simply pivot to another method, which UK stats suggest that people do), then the issue isn't being solved.

It'd be like if we were concerned about people OD'ing on Vicodin, but the stats from other places suggested that if you ban Vicodin, they'll just replace it with Percocet, then banning Vicodin isn't going to solve the issue at hand.

As far as suicide methods go, guns tend to be uniquely lethal. People might survive poisoning, for instance, but it's extremely unlikely a person would survive a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Also, guns require less deliberation than other methods of suicide, making them more dangerous for people that are impulsive.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Because the UK stats suggested that after their gun bans, the suicide rates remained the same, people just switched to a different method.

However, Australia saw a significant drop in suicides following their gun ban (especially among men).

https://www.aihw.gov.au/suicide-self-harm-monitoring/data/deaths-by-suicide-in-australia/suicide-deaths-over-time

I think the lack of correlation between suicide rates and gun bans in the UK comes down to gun ownership rates - even prior to the 1997 ban, gun ownership was pretty uncommon, and the vast majority of guns in the UK were (and still are) hunting shotguns.