Wife getting massages

[Strong in Him]

maybe maybe not, neither you or I know

I have been assured it is completely non-sexual, just for relaxation and, as needed, working out a stiff back or sore neck, that sort of thing. This has me upset. I feel like I should have been told years ago exactly what the circumstances were. Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Am I just too insecure? I don't believe it will lead to any actual impropriety or infidelity, but I don't like the idea of another man running his hands all over her feet, legs, thighs, shoulders etc. in private using massage oils. Thoughts?

No, but it doesn't sound like it.

 

[Strong in Him]

The husband in the OP realized that his wife is alone with someone of the opposite sex, who is rubbing her body, and God knows what else, while she is God knows, whether half naked, or naked.

He said she is not and that he doesn't believe it will lead to impropriety.

 

[CoreyD]

He said she is not and that he doesn't believe it will lead to impropriety.

Oh, okay. I must have missed that.
In that case, I stand by what I said in the case of persons who want to apply Bible principles, rather than take chances.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry but I find this comment bizarre. I don’t expect to look at my husbands phone and he doesn’t expect to look at mine. We completely trust each other. Does that make me the ‘uncommon wife’?

I'm so happy that you can trust your spouse, sister Sunflower39. However, there's a lot of people out there in the world who don't have a spouse whom they can completely trust. But, be blessed in what you have with your husband because it isn't so common as it used to be.

 

[comana]

I'm so happy that you can trust your spouse, sister Sunflower39. However, there's a lot of people out there in the world who don't have a spouse whom they can completely trust. But, be blessed in what you have with your husband because it isn't so common as it used to be.

I question why they remain married if trust is an issue.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I question why they remain married if trust is an issue.

According to Jesus, they don't have to remain married.

 

[Michie]

My wife has been going for massages for many years. I always assumed it was a spa setting with multiple people in the room. Turns out she is alone with a man for 50 minutes, door closed and shades drawn, covered by a sheet except for the body part being massaged, wearing only her bikini briefs, massage oil, everything except her bikini area and breasts are fair game for his hands directly on her skin. He is a licensed "massage therapist" and I have been assured it is completely non-sexual, just for relaxation and, as needed, working out a stiff back or sore neck, that sort of thing. This has me upset. I feel like I should have been told years ago exactly what the circumstances were. Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Am I just too insecure? I don't believe it will lead to any actual impropriety or infidelity, but I don't like the idea of another man running his hands all over her feet, legs, thighs, shoulders etc. in private using massage oils. Thoughts?

This forum might be more suitable for your question.

Requests for Christian Advice

A forum to request Biblical advice from Christians.

www.christianforums.com

 

[Ana the Ist]

My wife has been going for massages for many years. I always assumed it was a spa setting with multiple people in the room. Turns out she is alone with a man for 50 minutes, door closed and shades drawn, covered by a sheet except for the body part being massaged, wearing only her bikini briefs, massage oil, everything except her bikini area and breasts are fair game for his hands directly on her skin. He is a licensed "massage therapist" and I have been assured it is completely non-sexual, just for relaxation and, as needed, working out a stiff back or sore neck, that sort of thing. This has me upset. I feel like I should have been told years ago exactly what the circumstances were. Does this make anyone else uncomfortable? Am I just too insecure? I don't believe it will lead to any actual impropriety or infidelity, but I don't like the idea of another man running his hands all over her feet, legs, thighs, shoulders etc. in private using massage oils. Thoughts?

If you're uncomfortable with it... you have every right to explain this to her and ask her to stop getting these massages.

Her answer will explain how high a priority you are in her life. I would hope your concerns are more important than her massages...

Why did you assume what the situation was to begin with?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah, it really is. If there is no trust it's a rubbish relationship.

Everyone has boundaries.

There's nothing wrong with expressing them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What is he doing there, if not supervising? Seriously, what is his presence intended to accomplish, or prevent?

Sure. But not being able to go to an appointment without someone sitting outside the door? Yikes.

Really?

The only reason I ever access my husband's phone is to play silly games on it that I refuse to install on mine (because I know myself well enough to know how much time I would waste if I had instant and constant access to them). I've never checked his call records, his messages, his browser history, or anything else he does on it. I have no desire to. I have no demand or expectation that I be able to access his phone.

I would have a problem if he wanted to check those things on my phone, given that nothing in our marriage has ever given him any reason to suspect there's any problem. (Also because my phone holds call records and message conversations which I receive in a professional capacity and am expected to keep confidential).

Now, if there were a history of infidelity, or addiction to gambling, or some other issue which had arisen which meant stronger accountability were necessary, it'd be different; but in a healthy marriage with none of those things, something like a demand to access a phone comes across to me as more akin to coercive control, than healthy accountability.

Regardless of whether or not they relate to infidelity....I'm sure there's some behavior your husband could engage in that would bother you in some way and you would want him to stop.

If your husband decided to take up smoking for example, is it reasonable for you to ask him to stop?

 

[Paidiske]

If your husband decided to take up smoking for example, is it reasonable for you to ask him to stop?

It's reasonable to ask. It's not reasonable to feel entitled to him agreeing (to expect to control his decision). And that works both ways.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's reasonable to ask. It's not reasonable to feel entitled to him agreeing (to expect to control his decision). And that works both ways.

Right....and if he continues smoking regardless of how you feel, you'll have to decide how big a deal you want to make of it.

 

[Paidiske]

Right....and if he continues smoking regardless of how you feel, you'll have to decide how big a deal you want to make of it.

Sure.

However... I'd argue that there are some things where it is reasonable to want to make a big deal of it, and some where it is not reasonable. Someone who makes a big deal out of things where it is not reasonable, is in danger of becoming controlling/abusive.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure.

However... I'd argue that there are some things where it is reasonable to want to make a big deal of it, and some where it is not reasonable.

Right....those things will be subjective, based on you and your values, what you're comfortable with, etc.

Someone who makes a big deal out of things where it is not reasonable, is in danger of becoming controlling/abusive.

I think we probably agree that anyone that's too controlling isn't going to have a good relationship. I think it's also normal to express when something your spouse does makes you uncomfortable or bothers you in some ways and you try to set some boundaries.

He's uncomfortable with another man touching his wife in this way and he's clearly surprised that this is a different situation than the one he thought he'd agreed to. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell her this and see how she reacts. Maybe the massages aren't as important as his peace of mind and she's willing to drop them.

 

[Paidiske]

Right....those things will be subjective, based on you and your values, what you're comfortable with, etc.

To some degree. I'd argue, for example, that making a big deal of something which has absolutely no impact on you, is hard to justify as reasonable.

I think we probably agree that anyone that's too controlling isn't going to have a good relationship.

I was saying something a bit stronger than that. Not just not having a good relationship, but becoming abusive.

I think it's also normal to express when something your spouse does makes you uncomfortable or bothers you in some ways and you try to set some boundaries.

Sure. But your boundaries are about you, not about what your spouse does that doesn't impact you.

He's uncomfortable with another man touching his wife in this way and he's clearly surprised that this is a different situation than the one he thought he'd agreed to. I don't think it's unreasonable to tell her this and see how she reacts.

No, it's not unreasonable to tell her and see how she reacts. And if, in that scenario, she's quite happy to stop because they don't matter to her, hey, that's a good resolution. But things like wanting to supervise every appointment, or downright forbid her to go, or making out that this is some kind of temptation to sin, is definitely getting into unreasonable territory.

 

[Ana the Ist]

To some degree. I'd argue, for example, that making a big deal of something which has absolutely no impact on you, is hard to justify as reasonable.

He explained the impact on him....it makes him uncomfortable to know another man is touching his wife this way even if it's not overtly sexual.

I was saying something a bit stronger than that. Not just not having a good relationship, but becoming abusive.

I don't see what's abusive about sharing your feelings with your wife.

Sure. But your boundaries are about you, not about what your spouse does that doesn't impact you.

See above....it does impact him.

To run with the smoking example...if your husband smokes outside or when you aren't around it could still impact you because of your concern for his health.

No, it's not unreasonable to tell her and see how she reacts.

Glad we agree.

And if, in that scenario, she's quite happy to stop because they don't matter to her, hey, that's a good resolution.

Exactly.

But things like wanting to supervise every appointment, or downright forbid her to go, or making out that this is some kind of temptation to sin, is definitely getting into unreasonable territory.

Those were other people's suggestions. I don't know enough about the situation to offer advice beyond what I already have.

 

[Paidiske]

He explained the impact on him....it makes him uncomfortable to know another man is touching his wife this way even if it's not overtly sexual.

"It makes me uncomfortable" isn't what I'm talking about there.

I don't see what's abusive about sharing your feelings with your wife.

Not what I said. Sharing your feelings is fine. Controlling her behaviour is not.

See above....it does impact him.

Not really. No one is doing anything to him. No one is making him do anything. He doesn't like something she's doing (without him); that's not his boundary.

Those were other people's suggestions.

Yes, but they were what I was responding to in the post you quoted.

I don't know enough about the situation to offer advice beyond what I already have.

I'd be concerned, though, by the idea that his concerns should automatically be more important than her pain treatment.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Not really. No one is doing anything to him. No one is making him do anything. He doesn't like something she's doing (without him); that's not his boundary.

On a certain level, I'd think that it is, Paidske. What about all those things Paul said about "refraining for the sake of your weaker brother..." stuff?

I mean, I suppose ...............................we could get out of all of that by applying various forms of Higher Criticism to the Pauline corpus of literature and say, "Well, it looks like those parts are pseudonymous in nature and in question as to their authenticity. We can safely assume they lack any substantial authority since they probably weren't really written by Paul anyway ... "

If what I'm saying here isn't seen to be relevant, they I'm going to say to men, "Brother, before you get married, you better make sure that you and your wife are on similar hermeneutical wavelengths where the meaning and application of the Bible is concerned....otherwise, she may be carrying along unsaid assumptions about where she thinks her relational boundaries are." Of course, things can be vice versa in this respect between a wife and husband as well, "Sister, before you get married to him, you better make sure............................................."

As it is, it seems like all too many enter into their marriages with a more or less unstated, loosy-goosy set of "biblical" expectations, which then come out in the wash of the ongoing, day-to-day living of that relationship, to everyone's shock and dismay.

Yes, but they were what I was responding to in the post you quoted.

I'd be concerned, though, by the idea that his concerns should automatically be more important than her pain treatment.

 

[bèlla]

I think this is less about insecurity and pampering and more likely a reflection of their personalities and differences. The wife's comfort level is greater for services that improve her health and make her feel good. The end result is her priority and impropriety doesn't enter her mind. Whereas her spouse has a different perspective and views the human touch differently depending on the situation. Given her attire and setting it appears intimate and makes him uncomfortable.

If the husband hasn't experienced a massage I think he should with the opposite sex to see how he feels. That might silence his fears on its own. If he enjoys it but still feels uncomfortable they might consider a couples treatment instead.

~bella

 

[Paidiske]

On a certain level, I'd think that it is, Paidske. What about all those things Paul said about "refraining for the sake of your weaker brother..." stuff?

Different situation. That would apply if, for example, the husband couldn't have a massage without that being an occasion of sin for him, and she persisted in having massages, thus sending him the message that "it's okay to sin in this way."

But that's not what's going on here. As far as I can tell, he has one of two problems; either he thinks he "owns" her body (not just in the sense of being able to expect sexual fidelity, but in the sense of having a right to dictate how she lives in her own skin), or he has so sexualised her embodied existence that anything which involves something like someone touching her is automatically, in his mind, seen as sexual. Either attitude is deeply problematic, in that he fails to see her as a whole person in her own right.

Those are attitudes which she has every right to challenge rather than indulge.

If what I'm saying here isn't seen to be relevant, they I'm going to say to men, "Brother, before you get married, you better make sure that you and your wife are on similar hermeneutical wavelengths where the meaning and application of the Bible is concerned....otherwise, she may be carrying along unsaid assumptions about where she thinks her relational boundaries are." Of course, things can be vice versa in this respect between a wife and husband as well, "Sister, before you get married to him, you better make sure............................................."

I probably wouldn't put it quite like that, but absolutely I think a couple should be exploring those assumptions before they get to marriage. And I'd be warning them both to look out for, and be wary of, controlling attitudes.

As it is, it seems like all too many enter into their marriages with a more or less unstated, loosy-goosy set of "biblical" expectations, which then come out in the wash of the ongoing, day-to-day living of that relationship, to everyone's shock and dismay.

On this, we agree.