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Creationists: how close is the Jewish Calandar to the age of the Earth?

Job 33:6

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I am not qualified to measure the reliability of one bible translation against another, but your argument seems based on the particular translation you are using. The KJV, Bible in Basic English, ERV, ESV, Geneva, HCSB, JB2000, KJ21, Leeser, NKJV, RSV, Webster, and TRC, all have Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 as separate sentences.

The chief question surely is this: Does the bible teach that God created the heavens and the earth? The answer must be yes. Not only does Genesis 1:1 say so, but there are other verses too. For instance:

“And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.” (Heb 1:10 NKJV)

“For [in] six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Ex 20:11 NKJV)

“You alone [are] the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.” (Ne 9:6 NKJV)

“The heavens [are] Yours, the earth also [is] Yours; The world and all its fullness, You have founded them.” (Ps 89:11 NKJV)

“My help [comes] from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.” (Ps 121:2 NKJV)

“"God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.” (Ac 17:24 NKJV)

Yes. So the key here, if you see 2 different renditions, is to examine why it is that they are different.

And the answer is, in Hebrew, "beginning" is in construct form and without a definite article.

The KJV is a relatively old translation. I'm not saying that it's wrong. But it's worth noting that, Bibles, how they are rendered in English is based on what we learn about the Bible and the ancient isrealites context of Genesis, and based on the context of the people who translate it.

And the translators of the KJV, though they translated correctly, they also were not aware of things like the dead sea scrolls and writings within them.
 
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Job 33:6

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Yes. So the key here, if you see 2 different renditions, is to examine why it is that they are different.

And the answer is, in Hebrew, "beginning" is in construct form and without a definite article.

The KJV is a relatively old translation. I'm not saying that it's wrong. But it's worth noting that, Bibles, how they are rendered in English is based on what we learn about the Bible and the ancient isrealites context of Genesis, and based on the context of the people who translate it.

And the translators of the KJV, though they translated correctly, they also were not aware of things like the dead sea scrolls and writings within them.
And that's an important detail.

It's not that one translation is wrong and the other is right. Both translations are accurate.

It's just that one form highlights the original contextual background more clearly than the other.
 
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Job 33:6

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And that's an important detail.

It's not that one translation is wrong and the other is right. Both translations are accurate.

It's just that one form highlights the original contextual background more clearly than the other.
And innerency is based on the original Hebrew text, not on translations as well.

So, we kind of have to move beyond the translations, and think more deeply about, exactly why it is that they aren't wording it the same way. What is causing all these translations to render this slightly differently?

And again, the answer goes back to the Hebrew. There is no definite article for "beginning". So it may be "a beginning" or "the beginning" and translators are interpreting if "beginning" is in construct or not.

And the reality is that, to put it bluntly, translators, especially since the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, theyre able to gradually, over time, clarify some of these things a little better.

That's part of why the NRSV changes from two sentences to 1. The RSV, when updated to the NRSV, those translators, they switched it from "In the beginning, God." To "In the beginning when God,". And now on the NRSV updated edition, they updated it further to "When God began".

And these updates are unfolding over time as clarity is identified.

And the ESV, it's a great translation, I use it all the time. But you can even listen to conservative translators of the ESV and you'll hear them talk about this.

And again, a big part of this was the discovery of the dead sea scrolls and it's illumination on ancient Isreal.
@David Lamb
 
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Job 33:6

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I am not qualified to measure the reliability of one bible translation against another, but your argument seems based on the particular translation you are using. The KJV, Bible in Basic English, ERV, ESV, Geneva, HCSB, JB2000, KJ21, Leeser, NKJV, RSV, Webster, and TRC, all have Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 as separate sentences.

The chief question surely is this: Does the bible teach that God created the heavens and the earth? The answer must be yes. Not only does Genesis 1:1 say so, but there are other verses too. For instance:

“And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.” (Heb 1:10 NKJV)

“For [in] six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [is] in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” (Ex 20:11 NKJV)

“You alone [are] the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.” (Ne 9:6 NKJV)

“The heavens [are] Yours, the earth also [is] Yours; The world and all its fullness, You have founded them.” (Ps 89:11 NKJV)

“My help [comes] from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.” (Ps 121:2 NKJV)

“"God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.” (Ac 17:24 NKJV)
Also. We don't want to strawman the other Bible translations. All Bible translations are affirming God as Creator. The question is, is the Genesis creation ex materia or ex nihilo?
 
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BNR32FAN

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That's an incorrect understanding of the text. Genesis indeed does describe creation ex materia, not ex nihilo. Sorry if this upsets you.

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

God doesn't say "Let there be" until verse 3. But prior to verse 3, the deep was already present, along with the formless earth before God began creating with the spoken word.

Additionally, consider passages such as verse 9:
9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

God said, and yet, look at what actually happens. Waters were gathered. They did not appear out of nothing.

Or verse 6:
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

God said Let there be an expanse. But an expanse isn't actually a thing. Its just empty space.

Or verse 11:
11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

God said, let the earth sprout vegetation. Well, then the text says :the earth brought forth vegetation. It didn't appear out of nothing, rather the earth brought it forth.

The text is in fact describing ex materia creation. And that's why some Bible translations such as the NRSV, NRSVue, and CEB say "When God created the heavens and the earth" or "In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth"

In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. NRSV

1 When God began to create[a] the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was c
omplete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God[b] swept over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. NRSVue

1When God began to create the heavens and the earth— 2the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters— 3God said, “Let there be light.” And so light appeared. CEB



Also, Genesis chapter 1 begins with the same literary introduction as Genesis chapter 2, which is also ex materia.

Genesis 1:
verse 1: introduction
verse 2: background conditions
verse 3: God begins creating ex materia

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Chapter 2:
verse 4: introduction
verse 5-6: background conditions
verse 7: God begins creating ex materia.

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

And this is a common 3 step literary introduction of ancient Isrealite texts. We see it in extrabiblical texts as well.

And there are other ways that we know that it is ex materia as well. The text of Genesis closely follows the same creation order of the Egyptian memphite theology which is also ex materia. It also closely follows parallels of Enuma Elish and the Baal Cycle which are both also ex materia creation events, the Baal Cycle is also 7 days.


In Genesis 1 God creates with the spoken word. That doesn't occur until verse 3.

If you do a simple word study of "Bara" in the old testament, you can see very clear examples of the text referring to ex materia creation, but never clearly identifying any ex nihilo creation events.

And if you look at Genesis 1 closely, you'll find numerous examples, such as those noted above, in which God speaks and creates, but in reality nothing is actually coming into existance ex materia. Such as when God creates the earth:

9And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

God created here in verse 9 and 10, and yet we know that the earth was already there beforehand. God simply gathered the waters to reveal the earth, and that is the creative act of day 3.

Among other things.

Genesis 1 also follows the same syntax of Jeremiah 26:1 and 27:1 among others. Which define the beginning of God's reign, not so much the beginning of material existence.

And many passages throughout the old testament describe God's creation as ex materia, such as Proverbs 8 and Job 38


Ok so I’ve found a problem with the first video. First of all I want to point out that the Hebrew PHD in this video specifically says that there are two possible translation. He does not say that “In the beginning” is an incorrect translation, he said that “when God began” is another possible translation. So here’s the problem. He says that God didn’t actually create anything until verse 3, just like you say, but Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose His elect before the foundation of the world. This means that there was nothing to build on or form when God chose His elect. This means that at some point there was no earth at all to create from ex materia. If there’s no foundation there’s nothing to build on or form from. This means that at some point God would’ve had to create the foundation of the earth in order to build upon it and Genesis 2:2-3 tells us that God rested from all His work that He created and made on the 7th day. This means that the foundation of the earth had to have been created ex nihilo and it had to have taken place before the 7th day.
 
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AlexB23

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Actually it’s the Hebrew word Beyovm (in the day) that refers to an unspecified period of time. Yovm is never used in that manner in the OT.
Regardless of the Hebrew meanings, we can both agree that God created the Earth. Age does not matter, as what is more important is that God sent His only Son, Jesus to save us. :) All other points, or the age of the Earth or space does not matter, as all that matters is our faith in Jesus.
 
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Platte

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Genesis doesn't say what's prior.

Proverbs 8 may be referenced:
Proverbs 8:22-27 ESV
[22] “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. [23] Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. [24] When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. [25] Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth, [26] before he had made the earth with its fields, or the first of the dust of the world. [27] When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,Proverbs 8:28-30 ESV
[28] when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, [29] when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, [30] then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always,

Jesus and the holy Spirit were there beforehand. But Genesis doesn't talk about that.
Notice how the heaven and the earth are noted as the beginning.
The beginning and day 1 begins with God creating the heaven and the earth just as God told us and confirmed again with your verses from Proverbs. You have nothing in the Bible saying what you are, you have no one in the Bible corroborating what you are saying.

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.”

Notice all the “and” that tie each statement together

Creation was for man - 6 day creation was intentional and purposeful by God. He could have created it all instantaneous. But he took 6 + and rested in the 7th. Done as An example and model for man as God said.

That’s Biblical. Nothing you are saying is. Even the scriptures you post represent Creation of the heaven and earth on the 1st day.

I know I said it before but seriously I would not want to change the words of God. If what you are saying is true - that’s what God would have told us - He didn’t.
 
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Platte

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Regardless of the Hebrew meanings, we can both agree that God created the Earth. Age does not matter, as what is more important is that God sent His only Son, Jesus to save us. :) All other points, or the age of the Earth or space does not matter, as all that matters is our faith in Jesus.
If you can’t believe the words of Moses how can you believe the words of Jesus. When and how long Creation took God matters.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That's an incorrect understanding of the text. Genesis indeed does describe creation ex materia, not ex nihilo. Sorry if this upsets you.

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

God doesn't say "Let there be" until verse 3. But prior to verse 3, the deep was already present, along with the formless earth before God began creating with the spoken word.

Additionally, consider passages such as verse 9:
9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

God said, and yet, look at what actually happens. Waters were gathered. They did not appear out of nothing.

Or verse 6:
6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse[a] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 And God made[b] the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven.[c] And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

God said Let there be an expanse. But an expanse isn't actually a thing. Its just empty space.

Or verse 11:
11 And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

God said, let the earth sprout vegetation. Well, then the text says :the earth brought forth vegetation. It didn't appear out of nothing, rather the earth brought it forth.

The text is in fact describing ex materia creation. And that's why some Bible translations such as the NRSV, NRSVue, and CEB say "When God created the heavens and the earth" or "In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth"

In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. NRSV

1 When God began to create[a] the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was c
omplete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God[b] swept over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. NRSVue

1When God began to create the heavens and the earth— 2the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters— 3God said, “Let there be light.” And so light appeared. CEB



Also, Genesis chapter 1 begins with the same literary introduction as Genesis chapter 2, which is also ex materia.

Genesis 1:
verse 1: introduction
verse 2: background conditions
verse 3: God begins creating ex materia

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Chapter 2:
verse 4: introduction
verse 5-6: background conditions
verse 7: God begins creating ex materia.

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams[b] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

And this is a common 3 step literary introduction of ancient Isrealite texts. We see it in extrabiblical texts as well.

And there are other ways that we know that it is ex materia as well. The text of Genesis closely follows the same creation order of the Egyptian memphite theology which is also ex materia. It also closely follows parallels of Enuma Elish and the Baal Cycle which are both also ex materia creation events, the Baal Cycle is also 7 days.


In Genesis 1 God creates with the spoken word. That doesn't occur until verse 3.

If you do a simple word study of "Bara" in the old testament, you can see very clear examples of the text referring to ex materia creation, but never clearly identifying any ex nihilo creation events.

And if you look at Genesis 1 closely, you'll find numerous examples, such as those noted above, in which God speaks and creates, but in reality nothing is actually coming into existance ex materia. Such as when God creates the earth:

9And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

God created here in verse 9 and 10, and yet we know that the earth was already there beforehand. God simply gathered the waters to reveal the earth, and that is the creative act of day 3.

Among other things.

Genesis 1 also follows the same syntax of Jeremiah 26:1 and 27:1 among others. Which define the beginning of God's reign, not so much the beginning of material existence.

And many passages throughout the old testament describe God's creation as ex materia, such as Proverbs 8 and Job 38


In your third video at 20:10 into the video the guy specifically says that God did create the earth ex nihilo. Which means that according to Genesis 2:2-3 that would’ve had to have occurred before the 7th day.

Another problem I have with this video is that the guy says that Genesis 1 is the result of how the Egyptians would’ve perceived the world. So he’s saying that the creation account in Genesis 1 is a complete lie that derived from the perception of Egyptian men and not an actual historical event that was witnessed by God and passed on to Moses.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Regardless of the Hebrew meanings, we can both agree that God created the Earth. Age does not matter, as what is more important is that God sent His only Son, Jesus to save us. :) All other points, or the age of the Earth or space does not matter, as all that matters is our faith in Jesus.
I’m not trying to cause division brother just engaging in the discussion.
 
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Ok so I’ve found a problem with the first video. First of all I want to point out that the Hebrew PHD in this video specifically says that there are two possible translation. He does not say that “In the beginning” is an incorrect translation, he said that “when God began” is another possible translation. So here’s the problem. He says that God didn’t actually create anything until verse 3, just like you say, but Ephesians 1:4 tells us that God chose His elect before the foundation of the world. This means that there was nothing to build on or form when God chose His elect. This means that at some point there was no earth at all to create from ex materia. If there’s no foundation there’s nothing to build on or form from. This means that at some point God would’ve had to create the foundation of the earth in order to build upon it and Genesis 2:2-3 tells us that God rested from all His work that He created and made on the 7th day. This means that the foundation of the earth had to have been created ex nihilo and it had to have taken place before the 7th day.
I never said that the other translation is incorrect either. I've actually reiterated multiple times that both translations are accurate.

Regarding Ephesians, I said the same thing to David. Ephesians was written many centuries after Genesis, by a different author, with a different context, in a different place and time. Paul is not re-telling Genesis here.

Further, even in Genesis, there was a time before God laid the foundations of the earth. Namely, verse 2. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the creation was ex materia or ex nihilo. Jesus was there before the laying of the foundations of the earth too. See proverbs 8. But again, has nothing to do with whether or not it is ex materia.

And yes, at some point God did have to create the foundation of the world. But again, it doesn't say whether God does this ex materia or ex nihilo. In Genesis, it's all ex materia.
 
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In your third video at 20:10 into the video the guy specifically says that God did create the earth ex nihilo. Which means that according to Genesis 2:2-3 that would’ve had to have occurred before the 7th day.
Yes. And I've said this before too. Ex materia creation in Genesis does not contradict God ultimately creating everything ex nihilo. Just like me creating a pizza also does not contradict ex nihilo creation.

Ultimately, what matters is the cultural context of the ancient isrealites.

It's not about what God did, because God did a lot of things throughout the whole Bible, rather the question is what part of the many things that God did, is Genesis talking about?

What is the specific story that they are telling, we want to know what they are talking about, not what we think they're talking about. Which story are the isrealites telling?
 
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Regarding Ephesians, I said the same thing to David. Ephesians was written many centuries after Genesis, by a different author, with a different context, in a different place and time. Paul is not re-telling Genesis here.
So if Paul’s words were not inspired how could he possibly testify as to when God chose the elect?
 
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I never said that the other translation is incorrect either. I've actually reiterated multiple times that both translations are accurate.

Regarding Ephesians, I said the same thing to David. Ephesians was written many centuries after Genesis, by a different author, with a different context, in a different place and time. Paul is not re-telling Genesis here.

Further, even in Genesis, there was a time before God laid the foundations of the earth. Namely, verse 2. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the creation was ex materia or ex nihilo. Jesus was there before the laying of the foundations of the earth too. See proverbs 8. But again, has nothing to do with whether or not it is ex materia.

And yes, at some point God did have to create the foundation of the world. But again, it doesn't say whether God does this ex materia or ex nihilo. In Genesis, it's all ex materia.
Regardless of whether the earth was created ex nihilo or ex materia or still would have to take place before the 7th day according to Genesis 2:2-3.
 
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Yes. And I've said this before too. Ex materia creation in Genesis does not contradict God ultimately creating everything ex nihilo. Just like me creating a pizza also does not contradict ex nihilo creation.

Ultimately, what matters is the cultural context of the ancient isrealites.
Well I have a problem with what he said about that to because in his explanation of the raquia he says that it was written in Genesis 1 because that’s how they would’ve perceived it. The problem with this statement is that it makes Genesis 1 the result of human perception instead of divine revelation which means that Genesis 1 is nothing more than the imagination of man and is not an actual testimony from God. This means the Bible begins with a fairy tale.
 
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Job 33:6

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So if Paul’s words were not inspired how could he possibly testify as to when God chose the elect?
I'm not saying that Paul isn't inspired, I'm just saying that he is not the author of Genesis.

I gave a few examples before, but consider how the book of Ephesians also quotes Psalm 68. But Paul doesn't retell Psalm 68, he quotes it in references it, but he's not retelling The story, he's referencing it and telling a different story.
 
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Job 33:6

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I'm not saying that Paul isn't inspired, I'm just saying that he is not the author of Genesis.

I gave a few examples before, but consider how the book of Ephesians also quotes Psalm 68. But Paul doesn't retell Psalm 68, he quotes it in references it, but he's not retelling The story, he's referencing it and telling a different story.

Ephesians 4:8. Compare with Psalm 68.

When you switch out of the context of the original author, you need to be careful because New Testament authors aren't the original author, they are speaking from a different context, they have different background philosophies, they have different interests that they're presenting on. It's just a different book of the Bible and Ephesians was written many centuries later.

So you can't just say, well in Ephesians Paul said XY and Z therefore that means that the psalmist originally meant that same thing.

That's just not how the Bible works.
 
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Job 33:6

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Well I have a problem with what he said about that to because in his explanation of the raquia he says that it was written in Genesis 1 because that’s how they would’ve perceived it. The problem with this statement is that it makes Genesis 1 the result of human perception instead of divine revelation which means that Genesis 1 is nothing more than the imagination of man and is not an actual testimony from God. This means the Bible begins with a fairy tale.
That's not correct. To say that would imply Old Testament Bible scholars believe that the Bible is a fairy tale. The topic is much more nuanced than that.

NASB Amos 9:6 for example describes God walking on the dome of the earth. But nobody would accuse the NASB translators of suggesting that the Bible is a fairy tale.

The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Amos‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭NASB

Job 22:14 NASB2020
[14] ‘Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see; And He walks on the vault of heaven.’
 
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BNR32FAN

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I'm not saying that Paul isn't inspired, I'm just saying that he is not the author of Genesis.

I gave a few examples before, but consider how the book of Ephesians also quotes Psalm 68. But Paul doesn't retell Psalm 68, he quotes it in references it, but he's not retelling The story, he's referencing it and telling a different story.
Paul wasn’t quoting Genesis. How did Paul know when God chose the elect?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Ephesians 4:8. Compare with Psalm 68.

When you switch out of the context of the original author, you need to be careful because New Testament authors aren't the original author, they are speaking from a different context, they have different background philosophies, they have different interests that they're presenting on. It's just a different book of the Bible and Ephesians was written many centuries later.

So you can't just say, well in Ephesians Paul said XY and Z therefore that means that the psalmist originally meant that same thing.

That's just not how the Bible works.
What verse in Psalms 68 is Paul quoting because I don’t see anything in Psalms 68 that resembles what he said in Ephesians 4:8.
 
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